Zompist Bboard Again

thethief3 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:11 am na· pabadìja·siŋe sa·s ikuino·skana kais kapalababa·oska sa·s
na· pabad(t)ì(ù)-ja·-siŋe-duna sa·s ikuin-o·ska+na kais kapala-pa/ka/ba·-o(·)ska sa·s
“I do not wish to try korean bbq because i don’t like red meat”

Sa șarcutiya c̦osolan nè dova sa vianda bovarin utilisare. Poda mit se jiacao neu sa vulèit la fare, și, cã fuissir èa C̦oson-ostralin, se jiacao fuissi normaleu utilisuto car se bovaru eșt zeru toiar.
Korean barbecue doesn't need to be made with beef. You can also use pork or chicken, and, when I was in South Korea, pork was much more commonly used because beef was very expensive.

朕れ方で 焼ゑけ 魚を 忯。
いめれがたで かぼるゑけ うをを あはる。
Imeregata de kaboreki uwô âru.
"I prefer cooked fish myself."

Sèie mit concurantar. Tabeissir della puissam crusa delic̦ia èa Jiapan, mè n'ame se sentimente delle viande cruse.
Same here. I had some delicious sushi in Japan, but I don't like the texture of raw meat.

After watching a few episodes of "Vikings: Valhalla", I wanted to translate something again in my fake-Germanic.

Swerdi sy lebanas, swerdi sy stirbanas

swerd-i

sword\ALT¹-INS.M.SG

sy

3.F.SG

leb-anas

live-PST.PFV.3.SG

swerd-i

sword-INS.M.SG

sy

3.F.SG

stirb-anas

die\NPST-PST.PFV.3.SG

"By the sword she lived, by the sword she died"

¹Alternate stem.

Hweram gudnem du blotet?

hwer-am

who-DAT.N.SG

gudn-em

god\ALT-DAT.N.SG

du

2.SG

blot-et

sacrifice-PRS.IPFV

"Which god do you worship?" (litt. "sacrifice to")


JAL

jal wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:14 am After watching a few episodes of "Vikings: Valhalla", I wanted to translate something again in my fake-Germanic.

Swerdi sy lebanas, swerdi sy stirbanas

swerd-i

sword\ALT¹-INS.M.SG

sy

3.F.SG

leb-anas

live-PST.PFV.3.SG

swerd-i

sword-INS.M.SG

sy

3.F.SG

stirb-anas

die\NPST-PST.PFV.3.SG

"By the sword she lived, by the sword she died"

され 大か 季芽庭さひ 語 在り。
され しんか きめにはさい いふ あり。
Sare shinka Chimeniyasai-iyu ari.
[s̪ɐ̞́ˑ.ɾ̪è̞ ɕʰḭ́ɴ.kʰɐ̞̀ tɕʰí.mé̞ˑ.ɲì.jɐ̞̀.s̪ɛi íˑ.jỳᵝ ɐ̞́ˑ.ɾ̪ʲì]
DISTAL.NOMINATIVE great.DESCRIPTIVE season.bud.garden(=Germania).ADJECTIVE-COMPARATIVE/SUPERLATIVE language COPULA.PREDICATIVE
"That is a very Germanic language."

大かしい 古季芽庭の 事葉らめ 在り。
しんかしい いにしきめにはの けとうふわらめ あり。
Shinkashi Inische Chimeniya no kyotowara me ari.
[ɕʰḭ́ɴ.kʰɐ̞̀.ɕʰíˑ ì.ɲíˑ.ʃʰɘ̀ tɕʰí.mé̞ˑ.ɲì.jɐ̞̀ n̪ò̞ᵝ c͡çʰi̯ó̞ᵝˑ.t̪ʰò̞ᵝ.wɐ̞̀.ɾ̪ɐ̞̀ mè̞ ɐ̞́ˑ.ɾ̪ʲì]
great.DESCRIPTIVE.ADJECTIVE-OPINION ancient-time season.bud.garden(=Germania).GENITIVE matter.leaf(=word).PLURAL also COPULA.PREDICATIVE
"They are also very (much) ancient Germanic sounding words (or so I think)."

Hweram gudnem du blotet?

hwer-am

who-DAT.N.SG

gudn-em

god\ALT-DAT.N.SG

du

2.SG

blot-et

sacrifice-PRS.IPFV

"Which god do you worship?" (litt. "sacrifice to")

朕の 世際にて、其しい 物 居れず
いめの よぎわにて、せしい みよどう ゐれず。
Ime no yojō nite, seshi myodo yurezu.
[íˑ.mè̞.n̪ò̞ᵝ jó̞ᵝ.ʑò̞ᵝː ɲíˑ.t̪ʰè̞ | s̪é̞ˑ.ɕʰì mᶣi̯ó̞ᵝˑ.d̪ò̞ᵝ jýˑ.ɾ̪è̞.z̪ʉ̀ᵝ]
1sg.GENITIVE generation.boundary(=world).OBLIQUE, MESIAL.ADJECTIVAL thing exist.NEGATIVE
In my world, there are no such things (as gods).

Found on the Galician Twittosphere:

Шіс кара стела аб сваjун двеі шомеі доузе віші пеішісеі Украjіно: Росіjу оу бе Украjіну.

As best as I can tell it means: "This war has pitted against each other two of Ukraine's greatest enemies: Russia and Ukraine." I take that to be an attempt at edgy humor about Ukraine being a crappy place rather than ambivalence about the invasion, but it's always hard to tell on Twitter.

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:20 pm Found on the Galician Twittosphere:

Шіс кара стела аб сваjун двеі шомеі доузе віші пеішісеі Украjіно: Росіjу оу бе Украjіну.

As best as I can tell it means: "This war has pitted against each other two of Ukraine's greatest enemies: Russia and Ukraine." I take that to be an attempt at edgy humor about Ukraine being a crappy place rather than ambivalence about the invasion, but it's always hard to tell on Twitter.

Did you mean to post this to a different thread?

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:33 am"That is a very Germanic language."
"They are also very (much) ancient Germanic sounding words (or so I think)."

Yeah, I take mostly proto-Germanic roots, but apply a fictional grammar to it (3 genders, 7 noun cases, but only a single verbal declension pattern) that still comes out as sounding like Germanic :).


JAL

jal wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:14 am After watching a few episodes of "Vikings: Valhalla", I wanted to translate something again in my fake-Germanic.

Do you have more details on this language? Background, grammar?

Anyway, those are sentences that lend themselves to translation into Tautisca:

"By the sword she lived, by the sword she died"

Wit yá bís fí acrufis, yaup fí acrufis martor.
For she-NOM.SG live-PAST.3SG.INACT by sword-COLL.INST, thus by sword-COLL.INST die-PAST.3SG.INACT

"Which god do you worship?" (litt. "sacrifice to")

Pócun daiwun huwér?
which-M.SG.ACC god-SG.ACC you.(2SG)-NOM worship-HAB.ACT.2SG
(Literally: "Which god do you (habitually) invoke?")

hwhatting wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:21 amDo you have more details on this language? Background, grammar?

The background is simple: I was imagining a book or TV-series that needed a language that sounded familiar to the (English or other Germanic language speaking) reader, but was yet not understandable enough to fully grasp. Probably because I read an article about some Nextflix? series in which the Romans spoke Latin but the Germanic characters plain German (which I thought was a bit of a cop-out). So I searched for Proto-Germanic grammars, but couldn't find any, but I did find a Proto-Germanic dictionary. So I just quickly cooked up some declensions and conjugations, and I was happy :).

The grammar is pretty simplistic, nouns have two numbers (sg/pl), three genders (m/f/n) and seven cases (nom/gen/dat/acc/loc/ins/voc), adjectives agree with nouns (so have the same numbers, genders and cases). Verbs have two tenses (present/past), two aspects (perfective/imperfective) and two moods (declarative/subjunctive), but no aspectual distinction in the subjunctive. Verbs can be strong, in which case there's a present declarative and a non-present delclarative form (i.e. past and subjunctive) or weak. There's also a number of irregular verbs, most notable to be/to have. There's seven auxiliary verbs (want, shall/will, can, must, may, need, dare).

There's a table of correlatives for person/object/place/time/manner vs. question/negative/some/few/many/all/any/that.

Oh, the phonology is also pretty basic. Just five vowels, no diphthongs, one long vowel /i:/ (because it sounded cool :D), most consonants of English except no /θ ð v z/, but [ç] and [x] (not phonemically different, cf. German), and /w/ is probably more like [ʋ].

And that's basically it (I have described some things about negation, questions etc., but not too extensive).



JAL

Ok, couldn't help myself:

Ine hulen ine grunden hobit wunates.

ine

inside

hul-en

hole-N.SG.LOC

ine

inside

grund-en

ground-N.SG.LOC

hobit

hobbit

wun-ates

dwell-PST.IMP

In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit.


JAL

jal wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:56 pm Ok, couldn't help myself:

Ine hulen ine grunden hobit wunates.

ine

inside

hul-en

hole-N.SG.LOC

ine

inside

grund-en

ground-N.SG.LOC

hobit

hobbit

wun-ates

dwell-PST.IMP

In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit.

地ろうの 穴にて 小人 命け。
つちいろうの あらにて くをびとう いけけ。
Tsushiro no ara nite Kobito ikke.
[t̪͡s̪ʲʰýᵝˑ.ɕʰì.ɾ̪ò̞ᵝ nò̞ᵝ ɐ̞́ˑ.ɾ̪ɐ̞̀ ɲíˑ.t̪ʰè̞ kʰó̞ᵝˑ.bᶣì.t̪ʰò̞ᵝ íc.cʰè̞]
land.INESSIVE.GENITIVE hole.OBLIQUE small.person-OBSOLETE(=hobbit) live.PAST
"In a hole in the ground there lived a Hobbit."

The form 小人 (Kobito) is a fortunate coincidence, in that it both involves an obsolete morpheme (Tolkien seemed to love archaic words), and sounds similar to "hobbit" (the normal word for "small person" in present-day Ineshîmé would be 小者 kodori). Many elements of the story probably wouldn't translate well into existing vocabulary (I have no idea how I would render the concepts of "elves" and "men" into it, since the usual word for the humanoid species that speaks the language is 毅者 Toltori, which are inherently magical beings themselves, but who aren't very Elvish in the Tolkenian sense). I might end up rendering "Elf" as 森人 Teboribito ("forest person"), and "Man" as something like 者人 Toribito (which just combines two word for "person", and continues using the obsolete form 人 as a suffix). "Dwarf" would probably end up something like 山人 (yōbito).

nx· kukidanju·zy nx· kubú·lusy junja·bemiko nokkamuɬù·kyxtamlazena
nx· kukida-nju·-zy nx· kubú·lusy junja·be(o)-miko nokka+mu-ɬù·kyx+tamla-zena
in dig+result-POS in ground dwell-in short-NEG+fur-man-ESS
“In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit”

Notes
a) In normal speech the hobbit and dwelling bit would probably come before the bit about holes this is just an imitation of the sentence
b) the verbal form of in is most clearly derived from *mikkonma "liver"
c) The language has applicatives but there just the inanimate class of causatives
d) also more uses for the essive this time implying something exists in a current state

jal wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:11 pm The background is simple: I was imagining a book or TV-series that needed a language that sounded familiar to the (English or other Germanic language speaking) reader, but was yet not understandable enough to fully grasp. Probably because I read an article about some Nextflix? series in which the Romans spoke Latin but the Germanic characters plain German (which I thought was a bit of a cop-out).

I assume you're talking about "Barbarians"? I watched the first season; It was a bit too chliché-ridden for my taste, but nice as entertainment. The Germanic characters speaking German makes sense because that's the side with whom the viewer is supposed to identify - it's the time-honoured principle that viewpoint characters speak the same language as the Viewer / reader (as done by, like many other authors, Tolkien; otherwise all the English dialogue in LoTR would have had to be in Westron.)
Additionally, Latin was easy, as it's an amply documented language; 1st century West Germanic would have had to be reconstructed, and I'm quite sure the producers would have messed it up totally, like they did with the Germanic names. The names partially are attested names from the sources about Arminius (Arminius, Thusnelda, Segestes) in Latin form, and mostly invented names for the additional Germanic characters; those are a random assembly of Norse and Old High German names. I assume most viewers won't notice and won't care, but for someone who knows Germanic language history it really stands out like a sore thumb.

jal wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:11 pm So I searched for Proto-Germanic grammars, but couldn't find any, but I did find a Proto-Germanic dictionary.

I assume that one can find Ringe somewhere on the internet...

So I just quickly cooked up some declensions and conjugations, and I was happy .

Looks nice

jal wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:56 pm In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit.

Nu fodé hummé wés hobbitus (fodústor)
PTRC hole-SG.LOC ground-SG.LOC live-PAST.INACT.3SG Hobbit-SG.NOM (hole.dweller-SG.NOM)
Tautisca custom for translating works is rather loaning designations from the source language and putting them in Tautisca inflection classes, but I also went down the route of creating the word hole-dweller as if it was an old established compound.

Mayā nuthāŋkəŋ kēpkəŋ yaweruntraya chōꞵɨt.
/maˈjaː nuˈɹaːŋkəŋ ˈkeːpkəŋ ˈjaweruˌᶯʈaja ˈɰoːβɨt/

|maya

ground

nu-tham-kəŋ

LOC-be-PAT

kiep-kəŋ

fenestrated-PAT

əʷ-rəʷ-e-weʷ-nu-ntrəya

3s.O-3s.A-NP-HAB-LOC-stay

‘chōꞵɨt’|

‘hobbit’

In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit.

Unfortunately, Wēchizaŋkəŋ allows no easy single-word translation for ‘hole-dweller’, so a loan it has to be.

hwhatting wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:02 amI assume you're talking about "Barbarians"?

Yes, I think so. I didn't watch it, but read some article about it.

The Germanic characters speaking German makes sense because that's the side with whom the viewer is supposed to identify - it's the time-honoured principle that viewpoint characters speak the same language as the Viewer / reader

Ah, ok, I thought it was an English series, but it being German makes more sense then :).

1st century West Germanic would have had to be reconstructed, and I'm quite sure the producers would have messed it up totally, like they did with the Germanic names. (...) I assume most viewers won't notice and won't care, but for someone who knows Germanic language history it really stands out like a sore thumb.

Netflix made itself totally ridiculous with the name of the prime Norse city in Vikings Valhalla. For some reason, they named it "Kattegat", which doesn't sound Scandinavian at all, mainly because it isn't... It's a 17th century Dutch name given to the sea straight between Sweden and Denmark (litterally meaning "cat hole"). Apparently, Kattegat (the city) was very close to Uppsala, in reality a Swedish town on the other side of the peninsula, almost 1000 km away... The stupidity, it burns... At least they all speak English, though that became confusing when someone speaking English (though actually Norse) couldn't understand someone speaking English (though actually early Middle English), but luckily his friend could translate between English and English so he understood English :D.

jal wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:11 pmI assume that one can find Ringe somewhere on the internet...

I'll have a go at locating it...

Looks nice :-)

Thanks!


JAL

Of course, I'm translating The Hobbit in Sajiwan, and the first sentence is:

Insay ol de gwon, obit ste.
Inside hole at ground hobbit live

I could've translated it more akin to the original English by adding "it a" (or even "yu af") before "obit", but I opted not to.


JAL

Sintë loha hottë hottë nöwña nöwmäje.
[ɕintʰə ɫoxa xʷotʰꜜtʰə xʷotʰꜜtʰə ɲøwꜜŋa ɲøwꜜmæje]
/ɕɨn=tʰə ɫə-xa xʷə́tʰ=tʰə xʷə́tʰ=tʰə ɲə́w-ŋa ɲə́w-ma-jə/
ground.B=INESS LOC-3.SG.C hole.C=INESS hole.C=INESS dwell-AGT.A dwell-3.SG.A-PST.PFV
In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 8:06 am

ti· na· kapalagala·litabe
ti· na· kapala-g(k)ala·-li/ki/ta-be(·)
but 1.sg like+fish+cut+agent
“I however am a fan of sushi”

朕れ方で 焼ゑけ 魚を 忯。
いめれがたで かぼるゑけ うをを あはる。
Imeregata de kaboreki uwô âru.
[í.mè̞.ɾ̪è̞.gɐ̞́ˑ.t̪ʰɐ̞̀ d̪è̞ kʰɐ̞́.bò̞ᵝ.ɾ̪é̞ˑ.c͡çʰì ʉ̀ᵝ.wó̞ᵝː ɐ̞́ː.ɾ̪ʉ̀]
1sg.NOMINATIVE.DIRECTION DATIVE cook.PAST fish.ACCUSATIVE. prefer.PREDICATIVE
"I prefer cooked fish myself."

Sáxåwo fûṙâ siáut'o gaâxji kåwwåt'o dzejöñåġë ts'ëtåssåma.
[saːꜜχɒwo ɸɯʁɑ ɕaːꜜtʷʼo ɡaɑχji kʰɒꜜwɒtʷʼo dzejøŋʷɒɣə tsʼətʰɒꜜsʷɒma]
/sáːχa=wə ɸɨʁa ɕáː=tʷʼə ɡa-aχ-jɨ kʰáwa=tʷʼə dzəja-ŋʷa-ɣə tsʼətʰá-sʷa-ma/
fish.A=GEN meat.A 3.SG.A.PROX=ADESS five-one-3.SG.B day.B=ADESS tradition.B-STATIVE-CONVERB fry-PASS-3.SG.A
Fish are traditionally fried here on Fridays.

na uatsikua numula pa'e tlohin ponka
I enjoy all fish, in any style, except for salmon.

tajsa·mika ikatu nanukalanagua isi kalí·ni kiky neka·neka
tajsa·+mika ikatu nanu+kala-nagua isi kalí(á)·-ni kiky neka·neka
salmon+honorific taste+fish-for.me good superlative fish+pl of all
“Salmon is the best tasting of all fishes for me”

The for.me occupies the Intent slot