Zompist Bboard Again

malloc wrote: ↑Sat Nov 29, 2025 7:38 am

Raphael wrote: ↑Sat Nov 29, 2025 3:43 amNot if you count him against the sum of all other candidates. In that case it was just a few percent.

Quite. I'm glad he won but we shouldn't overstate his popularity or gloss over the many people who vehemently oppose him, even favoring a scandalous opponent.

People on the street genuinely like his policies. Statements from his opponents are like: "No, I won't vote for... Mamdani."

in chilean news, kast, a nazi-descendent new rightists (think bolsonaro, milei, lepen, etc) has won the presidency, performing the best any right wing politician has performed since, at least, the us-sponsored coup back in 73.

just great.

Torco wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 12:16 pm in chilean news, kast, a nazi-descendent new rightists (think bolsonaro, milei, lepen, etc) has won the presidency, performing the best any right wing politician has performed since, at least, the us-sponsored coup back in 73.

just great.

Why do people support him?

broadly speaking, i suppose same reasons people support trump, bolsonaro, milei, lepen, and those of that ilk: social media lies and simplistic, targeted, messaging, extensive financial support and almost total ability to make the TV repeat whatever framing is most convenient to them, the center "left" immediately capitulating on almost every talking point in an attempt to capture a center that doesn't exist (i mean, it was crazy to see the communist party adopting the "illegal migrants are destroying our country, we will set things in order and deport *more* illegals"), thus creating a ratchet effect, and other broader effects, but with respect to the particulars of the chilean case, there's something to be said about fear... and cowardice.

in reality, chile is not an especially dangerous country, all things considered: recently it's gotten more dangerous in some senses, less dangerous in others, the overall effect being things remaining more or less the same. but, chileans have been measured -yeah, we can criticize that one study, but the generall point stands- as the most scared-of-crime-and-violence country in the world. this has been a trend that's been happening since I was a kid: every year the % of people who are actually affected by an actual crime is lower, every year the % of people who say they're very scared of crime, or that crime has been going up, is higher. this resulted in what always was going to result, a paternal authoritarian figure gaining power by promising to bring order and law and whatever. textbook star wars prequel shit.

another factor was anticommunism. his second-round opponent was a literal militant of the communist party of chile, so as you can imagine, venezuela venezuela venezuela cuba venezuela venezuela... this was the case in every chilean election since the coup, but this time, the left candidate was actually a card-carrying communist, so yeah.

plus, he's actually a good candidate (my proglib friends get real angry when i say this): he speaks in full sentences, has a manly and confident voice, uses it in that slimy-but-effective way charismatic rightists do, is white, blonde and blue eyed [you'd be surprised how germanophile mestizo chileans are], and though he almost never responds to questions about policy, right wing and undecided voters could not give one seventh of a fuck about policy: what they want, far as i can see, is to feel that daddy ruler will take care of them and protect them and punish the baddies... and that's exactly what kast sells.... so yeah, back to the common thread of the common new right strategy.

oh, also, funny thing, one of the two big gas companies sent out a bunch of SMSs to who knows how many millions of their customers explicitly and illegally saying "vote for kast blablaba" hours before the election. as our courts are mostly bought, i don't expect nothing will come of it, but i guess we can add "unambiguous support from big business" to the list of reasons.

What immigrants are they talking about, Venezuelans? In America, they think throwing out the Hispanics and restoring enlightenment capitalism will make America white again. In India, they think banning Muslims from stealing all of India's mojo will teach their elephant god plastic surgery again or whatever. Civilized people are barely coherent.

rotting bones: I suspect there's internal migration within Latin America between the poorest and the relatively less poor countries?

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Fundamentally, the problem might be that these days, the Right is telling people the things that, based on people's biologically oldest and most basic instincts, feel true to them, and the Left is telling people the things that actually are true. So it's often a contest between people's oldest and most basic instincts and their higher brain functions.

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 1:58 pm rotting bones: I suspect there's internal migration within Latin America between the poorest and the relatively less poor countries?

Who do Chileans think are biologically inferior though?

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 1:58 pm Fundamentally, the problem might be that these days, the Right is telling people the things that, based on people's biologically oldest and most basic instincts, feel true to them, and the Left is telling people the things that actually are true. So it's often a contest between people's oldest and most basic instincts and their higher brain functions.

Is it biologically older or just effective propaganda churned out by highly paid marketers?

rotting bones wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:04 pm

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 1:58 pm Fundamentally, the problem might be that these days, the Right is telling people the things that, based on people's biologically oldest and most basic instincts, feel true to them, and the Left is telling people the things that actually are true. So it's often a contest between people's oldest and most basic instincts and their higher brain functions.

Is it biologically older or just effective propaganda churned out by highly paid marketers?

Both. Effective because it appeals to basic instincts, and selected by highly paid marketers because of that. In terms of your field, highly effective hacking that exploits ancient vulnerabilities in the human mind.

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:07 pm Both. Effective because it appeals to basic instincts, and selected by highly paid marketers because of that. In terms of your field, highly effective hacking that exploits ancient vulnerabilities in the human mind.

Why would humans have evolved to think some groups are inferior? Hunter-gatherers were fairly egalitarian.

If humans have evolved to think some groups are inferior, why don't people around the world think the capitalists are inferior?

rotting bones wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:24 pm
Why would humans have evolved to think some groups are inferior? Hunter-gatherers were fairly egalitarian.

Inside their in-groups.

If humans have evolved to think some groups are inferior, why don't people around the world think the capitalists are inferior?

Because they are more concerned with people who look and talk funny.

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:25 pm Inside their in-groups.

Hunter-gatherers did sometimes change groups. They were not at war with other groups by default. Although they did have a lot of wars, the death tolls in those wars were not like the death tolls in the World Wars. The wars are often called off after one death.

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:25 pm Because they are more concerned with people who look and talk funny.

Both Trump and Elon Musk look and talk funny. Trump impersonations are a running gag on my campus.

rotting bones wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:32 pm

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:25 pm Inside their in-groups.

Hunter-gatherers did sometimes change groups. They were not at war with other groups by default. Although they did have a lot of wars, the death tolls in those wars were not like the death tolls in the World Wars. The wars are often called off after one death.

Still, they had powerful instincts that told them to distrust, and not be all that concerned about hurting and killing, people who looked and talked differently from them. Edit: Different technology than in agricultural or industrial wars, but similar psychology.

What do you think why the cheap tricks that the political right-wing uses to get people to go along with their bullshit work so well?

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:25 pm Because they are more concerned with people who look and talk funny.

Both Trump and Elon Musk look and talk funny. Trump impersonations are a running gag on my campus.

By your and my standards, yes. By the standards of their fans, no.

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:43 pm Still, they had powerful instincts that told them to distrust, and not be all that concerned about hurting and killing, people who looked and talked differently from them. Edit: Different technology than in agricultural or industrial wars, but similar psychology.

Killing a member of another tribe would have been a big deal. It would have started a tribal war. Hunter-gatherers were not at war with other tribes by default.

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:43 pm What do you think why the cheap tricks that the political right-wing uses to get people to go along with their bullshit work so well?

I think the right's marketers have employed a multi-pronged strategy to convince their base they are part of a revolution that will change the world. They have adopted leftist themes and rhetoric, and they use it to prevent any productive change from occurring. They make a lot of changes, but all those changes are geared towards preventing helpful changes from occurring in the future.

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:43 pm By your and my standards, yes. By the standards of their fans, no.

The dude is orange. Grassroots Trumpists like that he's funny. Goofiness is traditionally a liberal value.

rotting bones wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:54 pm

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:43 pm What do you think why the cheap tricks that the political right-wing uses to get people to go along with their bullshit work so well?

I think the right's marketers have employed a multi-pronged strategy to convince their base they are part of a revolution that will change the world. They have adopted leftist themes and rhetoric, and they use it to prevent any productive change from occurring. They make a lot of changes, but all those changes are geared towards preventing helpful changes from occurring in the future.

Oh, I actually generally agree with you on those points. I don't think they're that different from the points I was making, though.

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:57 pm Oh, I actually generally agree with you on those points. I don't think they're that different from the points I was making, though.

Leftist aesthetics is not typically based on purely demonizing inferior people. If humans are biologically wired to demonize inferiors, then leftists would have to learn how to do it in a way that's compatible with leftist goals.

If anything, inferior peoples might be wish fulfillment for humans. They are people you get to win against easily.

rotting bones wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 1:09 pm What immigrants are they talking about, Venezuelans? In America, they think throwing out the Hispanics and restoring enlightenment capitalism will make America white again. In India, they think banning Muslims from stealing all of India's mojo will teach their elephant god plastic surgery again or whatever. Civilized people are barely coherent.

mostly venezuelans, yeah, to some degree colombians and ecuadorans, too. a racist chilean would say "caribeños". but yeah, mostly venezuelans. chile has always gotten migrants, it was mostly peruvians when i was a kid, some argentinians (rightists complained anyway), but now there's like 800k venezuelans here. there's not ethnic conflict like pogroms and stuff, but there's ill will and discrimination and stuff.

Who do Chileans think are biologically inferior though?

honestly chilean ethnic prejudice is more cultural and national than biological.... then again, you still hear people saying you're "mejorando la raza" when you hook up with a chick that's fairer-skinned than you sooooo....

Why would humans have evolved to think some groups are inferior? Hunter-gatherers were fairly egalitarian.

oh, any of a million reasons. if you tend to hate other groups, then you're more likely to kill em and replace them with people of your own ethnic group. because the latter have more genes in common with you than the former, genocidality could well increase your fitness.

Leftist aesthetics is not typically based on purely demonizing inferior people. If humans are biologically wired to demonize inferiors, then leftists would have to learn how to do it in a way that's compatible with leftist goals.

A traditional Papuan war: https://youtu.be/JI4uirwxx1Y

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 1:58 pmFundamentally, the problem might be that these days, the Right is telling people the things that, based on people's biologically oldest and most basic instincts, feel true to them, and the Left is telling people the things that actually are true. So it's often a contest between people's oldest and most basic instincts and their higher brain functions.

That has become my hypothesis as well. Humans have an instinct for tribalism and other components of reactionary ideology just as they have an instinctual taste for sugar and fat. Much as food corporations have engineered hyperpalatable junk food loaded with calories to get us hooked, so have reactionary propagandists crafted an ideology that appeals to our baser instincts. Hence why I emphasize the importance of education and favoring dense cosmopoles over isolated homesteads. People can learn to curb their tribal instincts just as they can learn to choose whole grains and cruciferous vegetables over snack cakes and soda pop. Nonetheless they will not gravitate toward the better choice on their own. If you lock people in a candy store, you can hardly condemn them for giving into the temptation to gobble up lollipops.

rotting bones wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 5:58 pm A traditional Papuan war: https://youtu.be/JI4uirwxx1Y

Papuans are mostly agricultural, not huner-gatherers.