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Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 6:12 pm
by bradrn
Richard W wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 2:49 pm
bradrn wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 8:30 am
Richard W wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 8:20 am
I must say the punctuation is odd. Or is this just Frislander's view on applying European punctuation rules to non-Latin script languages? So, is it normally written in an Indic script?
The punctuation seems fine to me, actually. I assume the ellipses are just a transcription of pauses during speech. (I saw a grammar of Dongwang Tibetan which used the same convention, so it doesn’t seem too unusual.)
I expect sentences to start with capital letters.
Oh, that! That seems totally normal for me as well. (Presumably Frislander got the sample text from a gloss; glosses include capital letters as often as not. I frequently leave out the capitals in glosses in my own con-grammars.)
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 2:50 pm
by Karch
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 3:51 pm
by Frislander
OK, so the <gü> seems pretty indicative of a Spanish-majority region, so let's provisionally say Latin America?
Also are the punctuation marks tones?
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 4:12 pm
by Karch
Yes to both.
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 4:28 pm
by dɮ the phoneme
Otomanguean?
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 4:34 pm
by Karch
It is indeed Oto-Manguean.
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 6:01 am
by Frislander
OK, so there isn't a voicing contrast it stops it seems, <jm> I think probably implies a voiceless nasal, <ng> seems like a velar nasal?, I'm guessing the diacritics on vowels are contours and the marks afterward are tone levels. The lack of retroflexes appear to rule out much of the eastern branch of the family, so let's guess Western Oto-Manguean?
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 6:30 am
by bradrn
Is it a Chinantec language?
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 3:52 pm
by Karch
It is indeed a Chinantec language.
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 9:06 pm
by bradrn
Karch wrote: ↑Sat May 16, 2020 3:52 pm
It is indeed a Chinantec language.
That makes it tricky then, because there don’t seem to be too many easily accessible Chinantecan gramars. But I’d guess Ozumacín Chinantec, as that seems to be the only one which commonly uses postposed punctuation marks (albeit slightly different ones) to mark tones.
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 12:53 pm
by Karch
It isn't Ozumacín Chinantec.
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 1:07 pm
by Nortaneous
Not the only one, Comaltepec does too. But I don't think it's Comaltepec. Tlacoatzintepec?
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 1:11 pm
by Karch
It's indeed Tlacoatzintepec Chinantec, written in the new orthography, which uses various punctuation marks for the tones, acute accent for ballistic syllables, and <ɇ> for what's presumably /ǝ/.
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 3:41 pm
by Nortaneous
ɲā pjāŋ tə̀màŋ mā. ɲā kúʔ và. çwè də̀ pɨ̀. àŋjā. àŋjā mjɛ́màŋkɔ̄ n̩tū. n̩tū mjɛ́màŋkɔ̄ tʰái n̩dì kāŋ. tʰái tʰàŋ sànà.
tʰáŋʔ də̀ ʃwì də́ʔ plū plà, plū pí plà. ʃwì də́ʔ plū plà plā bə̀tà plà plū plà àŋ jɛ́ŋ, àŋ kə̀mwàŋ, ú θì, àŋ θàŋ θà. pʰúʔ də̀ pʰā nāŋ lə̀kwālò, nāŋ lə̀kwālò də̀ àŋ lə̀kwālò. ɲāpū àŋ lə̀kwālò mɛ̀ wì. plū plà àŋ θàŋ θà kə̀làŋ kúʔ, tʰàŋ jàŋtáʔ bōŋ, ú θì, àŋ jɛ́ŋ. plū plà ʃò sə̀ɲwɛ̀ váŋ kə̄lō. plū plà lō váŋ tàpī bà. àŋ lò jɛ́ŋ, ú lò θì.
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 4:12 pm
by Karch
This one's clearly from Southeast Asia, probably one of those weird minority languages of the China/Burma/Thailand border, but besides that I have no idea. Is it Sino-Tibetan?
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 4:56 pm
by Tropylium
I'm passing by this thread while reading something applicable, so here's an example given in IPA:
Xaːnædn̩ʲ kyrtʃ irnæː. Neg ykʏ̆sn̩ kʉːg neg kʉːn ysʏ̆næːsn̩ʲ tataːd̥ gøbdɛːd̥ bæːdɐɢ̥ bolnæː.
"Odaː ykʏ̆dʒ-od̥sn̩ kʉːg gøbdɛːd̥ bæːxɐ, jaːksn muː xøwtæː kʉːnbtʃ?"
"Ʉːnlæː daln̩ tawn̩ arslɐŋ ørtæː bilæːw, 'endr̩ øgnæːw', 'maŋguːr øgnæːw' gɛgeːd̥wædʒ ykʷdʒodw̩. Aʃuːɣaːn aptʃ bæːnæːw."
"Enə̆ kʉːg nykn̩dn̩ʲ dartʃkŏ, bi møŋgiːtʃɪnʲ øksʏ̆w!" genæː.
Daln̩ tawn̩ arslɐŋ møŋgæːn awaːd̥ saːkɐ̆ kʉːg nykn̩dʏ̆ dardʒɛːnæː.
Note that some of this is phonetic rather than phonemic (and for ‹a› read ɑ).
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 5:37 pm
by Pabappa
Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 3:41 pm
ɲā pjāŋ tə̀màŋ mā. ɲā kúʔ và. çwè də̀ pɨ̀. àŋjā. àŋjā mjɛ́màŋkɔ̄ n̩tū. n̩tū mjɛ́màŋkɔ̄ tʰái n̩dì kāŋ. tʰái tʰàŋ sànà.
tʰáŋʔ də̀ ʃwì də́ʔ plū plà, plū pí plà. ʃwì də́ʔ plū plà plā bə̀tà plà plū plà àŋ jɛ́ŋ, àŋ kə̀mwàŋ, ú θì, àŋ θàŋ θà. pʰúʔ də̀ pʰā nāŋ lə̀kwālò, nāŋ lə̀kwālò də̀ àŋ lə̀kwālò. ɲāpū àŋ lə̀kwālò mɛ̀ wì. plū plà àŋ θàŋ θà kə̀làŋ kúʔ, tʰàŋ jàŋtáʔ bōŋ, ú θì, àŋ jɛ́ŋ. plū plà ʃò sə̀ɲwɛ̀ váŋ kə̄lō. plū plà lō váŋ tàpī bà. àŋ lò jɛ́ŋ, ú lò θì.
The way those words with /pl/ cluster together suggests onomatopoeia, but even if it is onomatopoeia, it's still telling that those are the only "hard" clusters in the whole sample text.
so i'll just guess directly: Hmong? It's the only language I know of that allows initial /pl/ and not a bunch of others. But I expect you to pick something very difficult, so .... if it isn't Hmong, I can only agree with Karch that this is probably a minor language spoken in Southeast Asia.
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 5:48 pm
by Nortaneous
Karch wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 4:12 pm
Is it Sino-Tibetan?
yes
Pabappa wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 5:37 pm
The way those words with /pl/ cluster together suggests onomatopoeia, but even if it is onomatopoeia,
it's not
so i'll just guess directly: Hmong?
no
this is probably a minor language spoken in Southeast Asia.
yes
Tropylium wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 4:56 pm
I'm passing by this thread while reading something applicable, so here's an example given in IPA:
Xaːnædn̩ʲ kyrtʃ irnæː. Neg ykʏ̆sn̩ kʉːg neg kʉːn ysʏ̆næːsn̩ʲ tataːd̥ gøbdɛːd̥ bæːdɐɢ̥ bolnæː.
"Odaː ykʏ̆dʒ-od̥sn̩ kʉːg gøbdɛːd̥ bæːxɐ, jaːksn muː xøwtæː kʉːnbtʃ?"
"Ʉːnlæː daln̩ tawn̩ arslɐŋ ørtæː bilæːw, 'endr̩ øgnæːw', 'maŋguːr øgnæːw' gɛgeːd̥wædʒ ykʷdʒodw̩. Aʃuːɣaːn aptʃ bæːnæːw."
"Enə̆ kʉːg nykn̩dn̩ʲ dartʃkŏ, bi møŋgiːtʃɪnʲ øksʏ̆w!" genæː.
Daln̩ tawn̩ arslɐŋ møŋgæːn awaːd̥ saːkɐ̆ kʉːg nykn̩dʏ̆ dardʒɛːnæː.
Note that some of this is phonetic rather than phonemic (and for ‹a› read ɑ).
Mansi?
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 2:11 pm
by Frislander
Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 3:41 pm
ɲā pjāŋ tə̀màŋ mā. ɲā kúʔ và. çwè də̀ pɨ̀. àŋjā. àŋjā mjɛ́màŋkɔ̄ n̩tū. n̩tū mjɛ́màŋkɔ̄ tʰái n̩dì kāŋ. tʰái tʰàŋ sànà.
tʰáŋʔ də̀ ʃwì də́ʔ plū plà, plū pí plà. ʃwì də́ʔ plū plà plā bə̀tà plà plū plà àŋ jɛ́ŋ, àŋ kə̀mwàŋ, ú θì, àŋ θàŋ θà. pʰúʔ də̀ pʰā nāŋ lə̀kwālò, nāŋ lə̀kwālò də̀ àŋ lə̀kwālò. ɲāpū àŋ lə̀kwālò mɛ̀ wì. plū plà àŋ θàŋ θà kə̀làŋ kúʔ, tʰàŋ jàŋtáʔ bōŋ, ú θì, àŋ jɛ́ŋ. plū plà ʃò sə̀ɲwɛ̀ váŋ kə̄lō. plū plà lō váŋ tàpī bà. àŋ lò jɛ́ŋ, ú lò θì.
Burmish?
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 6:43 pm
by Nortaneous
