Elections in various countries

[rotting bones]

The farmers of Bangladesh reject Islamism. Heated nationalistic post from a left-leaning subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/bangladesh/com ... %E0%A6%B0/ (Not by me.)

দেশের সব ভার্সিটিগুলা একেবারে বন্ধ করে দেওয়া উচিত,

d̪eʃ-er

country.gen

ʃɔb

all

bʱarʃiʈi-gulo

varsity-pl

æke-bar-e

one-time-loc

bɔnd̪ʱo

close

kore

do.3

d̪ewa

give

utʃit̪

should

All the universities in the country should be closed,

যতসব মৌলবাদী নারীবিদ্বেষী তৈরির কারখানা হয়ে গেছে একেকটা।

dʒɔt̪oʃɔb

all.these.fucking

moulobad̪i

terrorist

nari-bid̪:eʃ-i

woman-hate-person

t̪oiri-r

creation.gen

karkʰana

factory

hoje

be.part

getʃʰe

go.3

æk-ek-ʈa

one.by.one

they have all become fucking terrorist misogynist creation factories.

Note: /dʒɔt̪oʃɔb/ is not really a swear word, but it expresses frustration.

ভার্সিটির গেঞ্জি অথর্বগুলা আসলেই "তুমি কে আমি কে রাজাকার রাজাকার" স্লোগানের সত্যতা প্রমাণ করে দিয়েছে।

bʱarʃiʈi-r

varsity-gen

gendʒi

t-shirt

ɔt̪ʰɔrbo-gulo

weak-pl

aʃle-i

come.part-emph

t̪umi

2s

ke

who

ami

1s

ke

who

radʒakar

rajakar

radʒakar

rajakar

slogan-er

slogan.gen

ʃot̪:ot̪a

truth

proman

prove

kore

do.part

d̪ijetʃʰe

give.3.perf

Whenever the t-shirt-wearing fools of the university come in, they argue for the slogan, "Who are you? Who am I? Rajakar! Rajakar!"

এর থেকে গ্রামবাংলার চাষাভুষারাই আসলে "প্রথম বাংলাদেশ আমার শেষ বাংলাদেশ" এর মর্ম ধারণ করে।

er

gen

t̪ʰeke

abl

gram-baŋla-r

village-Bengal.gen

tʃaʃa-bʱuʃa-ra-i

farmer-tarmer-pl-emph

aʃle

come.part

prot̪ʰom

prot̪ʰom

baŋlad̪eʃ

Bangladesh

amar

1s.gen

ʃeʃ

last

baŋlad̪eʃ

Bangladesh

er

gen

mɔrmo

core

d̪ʱaron

take.form

kɔre

do.3

Rather than this, when the farmer-tarmers of the Bengali heartland come in, slogans take form around the core of, "My first Bangladesh is my last Bangladesh."

---

Personally, I'm not so optimistic. All the major parties in the Yunus election were right-wing. So far, Bengali-nationalistic Islamism has defeated global Islamism. That's not nothing given Bengal's radically secular culture, some of which I have shown in the Bengali thread. I just hope the fact that they courted leftists in this election will lead BNP to govern in a more centrist manner, assuming they can pull it off.

[rotting bones]

At least the BNP leader mentioned atheists in his speech.

[Raphael]

Well, good that the worst people lost, I guess.

A place where the universities are seen by some as places for misogynistic supporters of terrorism, and at least some farmers define themselves in terms of opposing that kind of thing? I probably don't have to tell you how incredibly surreal that sounds like to people who are used to the domestic politics of Western countries. Good reminder for people to be careful with making universal basic assumptions about how politics works - not just stuff like who usually wins, but even more basic stuff like who is who, who thinks of themselves as allied with whom or fighting against whom, or what things people are fighting about.

[bradrn]

A place where the universities are seen by some as places for misogynistic supporters of terrorism, and at least some farmers define themselves in terms of opposing that kind of thing? I probably don't have to tell you how incredibly surreal that sounds like to people who are used to the domestic politics of Western countries. Good reminder for people to be careful with making universal basic assumptions about how politics works - not just stuff like who usually wins, but even more basic stuff like who is who, who thinks of themselves as allied with whom or fighting against whom, or what things people are fighting about.

See also: the Taliban, whose name means ‘students’.

[Travis B.]

A place where the universities are seen by some as places for misogynistic supporters of terrorism, and at least some farmers define themselves in terms of opposing that kind of thing? I probably don't have to tell you how incredibly surreal that sounds like to people who are used to the domestic politics of Western countries. Good reminder for people to be careful with making universal basic assumptions about how politics works - not just stuff like who usually wins, but even more basic stuff like who is who, who thinks of themselves as allied with whom or fighting against whom, or what things people are fighting about.

See also: the Taliban, whose name means ‘students’.

I always took that as referring to students of a madrasa, which is specifically a religious institution.

[rotting bones]

Well, good that the worst people lost, I guess.

Thanks. Now for the vote that really matters to me personally, West Bengal 2026. I hope the loss of the Islamists in Bangladesh weakens the power of BJP rhetoric, which says all Bengali Muslims are, and have always been, Taliban. A statement so incredibly false, no one knows what to say to the people who pretend to believe it.

I always took that as referring to students of a madrasa, which is specifically a religious institution.

Right, the Taliban were madrasa students, madrasas that were cut off from mainstream Islamic scholarship.

A place where the universities are seen by some as places for misogynistic supporters of terrorism, and at least some farmers define themselves in terms of opposing that kind of thing? I probably don't have to tell you how incredibly surreal that sounds like to people who are used to the domestic politics of Western countries. Good reminder for people to be careful with making universal basic assumptions about how politics works - not just stuff like who usually wins, but even more basic stuff like who is who, who thinks of themselves as allied with whom or fighting against whom, or what things people are fighting about.

There are lots of antifa farmers in Bengal, but the situation in Bangladesh is very complex.

BNP is one of the corrupt parties of the old guard. In Bangladesh, BNP is known as the party that goes around demanding donations. I've seen speculation that in some cases, they got so many votes because people recognized their symbol on the ballot.

The students want to reform the country. They say the Islamists were more receptive to this proposal. They also offered the students more seats in the alliance. The students don't care about women. Even many of the women don't care about women. They just want jobs, and there aren't any. In some cases, the Islamist votes might have come from the cities because that's where they are more exposed to new ideas.

The victory of Jamaat on university campuses is a different story. They don't whistle at girls on campus, and they don't steal funds earmarked for lunch. That's all the students care about.

Nevertheless, lots of people are mad at the students for allying with Jamaat. They are saying the students have Gen Z brain rot.

Even Jamaat is not what you might expect. Yes, they said they will never have a woman leader because God created men and women differently. Sure, they said advanced countries never have female leaders. They are bigots and their grassroots are blaming Hindus for their loss. On the other hand, they wanted women to have paid maternity leave (because God created men and women differently). They protected Hindu temples during the riots. They even fielded one Hindu candidate (who lost).

Although they lost, Jamaat still did better than they ever have before. They are the only realistic unbanned alternative now, and therefore the logical alternative if they remain the only opposition. What will happen in the next election?

[Travis B.]

So basically the choice was between crooks and religious fundies. Wonderful choice that. (Reminds me of when Jacques Chirac was running for president of France against Jean-Marie le Pen and people said "vote for the crook, not the fascist.")

[rotting bones]

So basically the choice was between crooks and religious fundies. Wonderful choice that. (Reminds me of when Jacques Chirac was running for president of France against Jean-Marie le Pen and people said "vote for the crook, not the fascist.")

There are honest individuals. But for populations that have difficulty finding jobs, I suspect honesty is a fantasy. In Bangladesh, the Islamists are also involved in illegal activity: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dhaka/s/kWUplzzqor

If the average income in a country is low, it's easier to bribe people because they accept lower amounts as bribes. Rich countries are also corrupt, but people there are not desperate enough to be bribed by small amounts. You have to tempt them with millions of dollars. The only "solution" is to raise the average income. Easier said than done. For undeveloped countries, I can only think of creating good jobs by fiat.

[Raphael]

I know it's being overshadowed by the nearby other war, but does anyone know more about the thing between Afghanistan and Pakistan? I mean, how did things get to that point? Weren't the Taliban originally to a large extent clients of the ISI?

[rotting bones]

I know it's being overshadowed by the nearby other war, but does anyone know more about the thing between Afghanistan and Pakistan? I mean, how did things get to that point? Weren't the Taliban originally to a large extent clients of the ISI?

You assume that we support people whom we expect we won't have to fight. This is primitive strategy, where factions are either friends or enemies. What it doesn't take into account is that flower wars can support military industries, stimulating growth in key sectors. If done right, they can also create rally round the flag effects at critical moments.

I see Pakistan as a miniature US. Both have supported and continue to support terrorists whom they fight at the same time. People have noted their justifications sound very much like when India attacked Pakistan: https://youtu.be/8CpUkYrB3B4

[zompist]

I know it's being overshadowed by the nearby other war, but does anyone know more about the thing between Afghanistan and Pakistan? I mean, how did things get to that point? Weren't the Taliban originally to a large extent clients of the ISI?

My understanding is that it's ultimately the fault of the US and Britain.

1. The Brits conquered what is now Pakistan but were unable to subjugate the Afghans. A line had to be drawn somewhere, so it was.
2. Like most colonial lines, this one made no ethnic sense. It divided the territory of the Pashtuns/Pakhtuns— the major type of Afghan.
3. In practice, what the Brits hopefully called the "Northwest Frontier Area" was not really under British control. The Pakhtuns did what they pleased and freely crossed the border.
4. The Pakistanis inherited this situation. The more tractable parts of the NFA became the province of Khyber Pakhtunwa; the hopelessly anarchic frontier region became the optimistically named "Federally Administered Tribal Area".
5. The Soviets invaded Afghanistan. The US found that arming Islamist rebels was a highly effective way of making the Soviets pay. (One of the Islamists was a young fellow named Osama bin Laden.)
6. Bush decided he needed to take over Afghanistan. The Pakistanis were recruited to help.
7. This required Pakistan to actually occupy the FATA.
8. Both 6 and 7 made Pakistan a target for the Islamists, both Afghani and home-grown. I believe at one point Pakistan had the highest number of terrorist attacks in the world.
9. The cause of the present fighting is that Pakistan claims that the Taliban are harboring the TTP, the Pakistani Taliban. Which they probably are to an extent, but for reasons 1 to 8 dividing territory, nations, and Taliban neatly between "Afghan" and "Pakistani" has never corresponded to facts on the ground. The TTP is highly decentralized and unlikely to be controlled by the Afghan Taliban.

This page contains an overview.

[Raphael]

I know it's being overshadowed by the nearby other war, but does anyone know more about the thing between Afghanistan and Pakistan? I mean, how did things get to that point? Weren't the Taliban originally to a large extent clients of the ISI?

My understanding is that it's ultimately the fault of the US and Britain.

1. The Brits conquered what is now Pakistan but were unable to subjugate the Afghans. A line had to be drawn somewhere, so it was.
2. Like most colonial lines, this one made no ethnic sense. It divided the territory of the Pashtuns/Pakhtuns— the major type of Afghan.
3. In practice, what the Brits hopefully called the "Northwest Frontier Area" was not really under British control. The Pakhtuns did what they pleased and freely crossed the border.
4. The Pakistanis inherited this situation. The more tractable parts of the NFA became the province of Khyber Pakhtunwa; the hopelessly anarchic frontier region became the optimistically named "Federally Administered Tribal Area".
5. The Soviets invaded Afghanistan. The US found that arming Islamist rebels was a highly effective way of making the Soviets pay. (One of the Islamists was a young fellow named Osama bin Laden.)
6. Bush decided he needed to take over Afghanistan. The Pakistanis were recruited to help.
7. This required Pakistan to actually occupy the FATA.
8. Both 6 and 7 made Pakistan a target for the Islamists, both Afghani and home-grown. I believe at one point Pakistan had the highest number of terrorist attacks in the world.
9. The cause of the present fighting is that Pakistan claims that the Taliban are harboring the TTP, the Pakistani Taliban. Which they probably are to an extent, but for reasons 1 to 8 dividing territory, nations, and Taliban neatly between "Afghan" and "Pakistani" has never corresponded to facts on the ground. The TTP is highly decentralized and unlikely to be controlled by the Afghan Taliban.

This page contains an overview.

Oh, thank you, that's very informative! I asked because I remember reading, long ago, in a book on the Taliban, that back in the 1990s, Pakistani intelligence tried to turn the Taliban into more or less an extension of Pakistan. Supposedly, the thinking behind that was that Pakistani strategic planners were worried about the fact that geographically, Pakistan is, you know, a strip of land on the northwestern border of its main rival/opponent/enemy, and they therefore decided that they wanted to somehow make the country less narrow. So they tried to set up a government in Afghanistan that would be close enough to them themselves that Afghanistan could be seen as sort of a part of Pakistan for purposes of international politics. I think the technical term was "strategic depth". The memory of having read that was what made me so confused by the idea of a war between Pakistan and Taliban-run Afghanistan. Have you heard of any of this?

Oh, and, out of curiosity, have people in the FATA traditionally voted in Pakistani elections during times when Pakistan had elections?

[zompist]

I think the technical term was "strategic depth". The memory of having read that was what made me so confused by the idea of a war between Pakistan and Taliban-run Afghanistan. Have you heard of any of this?

Only indirectly— Pakistan certainly intervened in Afghanistan and considered the Taliban to be allies, joining a long list of people who were unable to take control of the country.

Oh, and, out of curiosity, have people in the FATA traditionally voted in Pakistani elections during times when Pakistan had elections?

Yes, but only starting in 1996.

FATA was merged with Khyber Pakhtunkhwa in 2018, which is rather provoking as I finished my India book in 2017.

[Raphael]

I think the technical term was "strategic depth". The memory of having read that was what made me so confused by the idea of a war between Pakistan and Taliban-run Afghanistan. Have you heard of any of this?

Only indirectly— Pakistan certainly intervened in Afghanistan and considered the Taliban to be allies, joining a long list of people who were unable to take control of the country.

Oh, and, out of curiosity, have people in the FATA traditionally voted in Pakistani elections during times when Pakistan had elections?

Yes, but only starting in 1996.

FATA was merged with Khyber Pakhtunkhwa in 2018, which is rather provoking as I finished my India book in 2017.

Thank you!

[rotting bones]

Pakistan openly celebrated the victory of Taliban in Afghanistan. Similarly, they support the Islamists in Bangladesh. These Islamists belong to a party that is repressed in Pakistan.

[rotting bones]

IE supremacists look down on Semites and Turks as "nomads". Weren't IE speakers also nomads from a few waves ago?

[Raphael]

IE supremacists look down on Semites and Turks as "nomads". Weren't IE speakers also nomads from a few waves ago?

Those were glorious conquerors. The Semites and Turks were parasitic looters. /s

[malloc]

Good news out of Hungary for once. It looks like the opposition party Tisza has unseated the far right authoritarian Orbán after sixteen years in power.

[Lērisama]

Good news out of Hungary for once. It looks like the opposition party Tisza has unseated the far right authoritarian Orbán after sixteen years in power.

It looks like Tisza will get the magic ⅔ supermajority that lets them alter the constitution as well. In unrelated news, I am getting way too much enjoyment out of the prospective prime minister of Hungary being called Peter the Hungarian¹. I get it's a relatively common surname, but some nominative determinism is always nice.

¹ That is, Magyar Péter.

[Raphael]

I am getting way too much enjoyment out of the prospective prime minister of Hungary being called Peter the Hungarian¹. I get it's a relatively common surname, but some nominative determinism is always nice.

¹ That is, Magyar Péter.

Well, there are people with the surnames "English" and "Deutsch", too, but I don't know who the most successful politicians among them were.


Only very indirectly related but, while I unfortunately couldn't find the link right now, a while ago I saw someone post something to social media that went more or less, quoting from memory,


If we ever definitely meet aliens, we should better make sure that the first person they meet isn't named Hugh.
"What's your name, Earthling?"
"Hugh."
"And what do you call your species?"
"Humans."