Zompist Bboard Again

jal wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:38 am How do you pronounce "antifa"? I realized I have no idea of its English realization, as "fa" is short for "fascist", but the "fa" of "fascist" can't typically end a word (in Dutch we have no such problem, as we have /fa/, for the first syllable of fascist, and thus also as last syllable of "antifa").

Hasn’t this been discussed before?

jal wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:38 am How do you pronounce "antifa"? I realized I have no idea of its English realization, as "fa" is short for "fascist", but the "fa" of "fascist" can't typically end a word (in Dutch we have no such problem, as we have /fa/, for the first syllable of fascist, and thus also as last syllable of "antifa").


JAL

Like most things in English it is a schwa

jal wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:38 am How do you pronounce "antifa"? I realized I have no idea of its English realization, as "fa" is short for "fascist", but the "fa" of "fascist" can't typically end a word (in Dutch we have no such problem, as we have /fa/, for the first syllable of fascist, and thus also as last syllable of "antifa").

To me 'antifa' is effectively a loanword. If you pressed me to give a pronunciation I would probably say something like /ænˈtifə/ [ɛ̃̆ə̯̃̆nˈtʰifə(ː)].

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:48 amHasn’t this been discussed before?

If so I'm not aware or have forgotten, otherwise I wouldn't ask :D.


JAL

Darren wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:21 amLike most things in English it is a schwa

And where's your stress if I may ask? Travis has it penultimate, but that obscures the "anti".


JAL

jal wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 2:12 pm

Darren wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:21 amLike most things in English it is a schwa

And where's your stress if I may ask? Travis has it penultimate, but that obscures the "anti".


JAL

Barring dialectal differences, the same as Travis's. It's not something I'd regularly parse as anti-fa (if I did it would be more like /ˈæntiˌfɑː/ instead of /ˌæːnˈtɪjfə/)

jal wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:38 am How do you pronounce "antifa"? I realized I have no idea of its English realization, as "fa" is short for "fascist", but the "fa" of "fascist" can't typically end a word (in Dutch we have no such problem, as we have /fa/, for the first syllable of fascist, and thus also as last syllable of "antifa").

I don't really know; this is a word I've seen written much more than I've actually heard.

My instinct is to pronounce it essentially as a clipping of "anti-fascist", which does actually put a TRAP vowel ([a] in my accent) in word-final position (something which I can do, but mostly in obvious French loans) but it seems that it is more commonly pronounced as Darren and Travis suggest.

anteallach wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 2:37 am

jal wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:38 am How do you pronounce "antifa"? I realized I have no idea of its English realization, as "fa" is short for "fascist", but the "fa" of "fascist" can't typically end a word (in Dutch we have no such problem, as we have /fa/, for the first syllable of fascist, and thus also as last syllable of "antifa").

I don't really know; this is a word I've seen written much more than I've actually heard.

My instinct is to pronounce it essentially as a clipping of "anti-fascist", which does actually put a TRAP vowel ([a] in my accent) in word-final position (something which I can do, but mostly in obvious French loans) but it seems that it is more commonly pronounced as Darren and Travis suggest.

This exactly – I don't think I've ever heard it pronounced, but it's /ˈantɪjˌfa/ in my head.

The thing is that final /æ ɑ/ outside of monosyllables (and then mostly interjections) or possibly some learnèd French loans are forbidden in the English here.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 8:40 am

jal wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:38 am How do you pronounce "antifa"? I realized I have no idea of its English realization, as "fa" is short for "fascist", but the "fa" of "fascist" can't typically end a word (in Dutch we have no such problem, as we have /fa/, for the first syllable of fascist, and thus also as last syllable of "antifa").

To me 'antifa' is effectively a loanword. If you pressed me to give a pronunciation I would probably say something like /ænˈtifə/ [ɛ̃̆ə̯̃̆nˈtʰifə(ː)].

Pretty much how I've heard it said online and in the media by English speakers (not that exact phonetic realisation necessarily, but I'd transcribe it phonemically the same).

Does anybody else pronounce abaci with the C pronounced /k/ but abacist with the C pronounced /s/? I think I'm doing the former by analogy with abacus but the latter by analogy with other words that end in –cist (physicist in particular seems like a good example to mention).

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 8:33 am The thing is that final /æ ɑ/ outside of monosyllables (and then mostly interjections) or possibly some learnèd French loans are forbidden in the English here.

The only two words that end with /{/ that I can think of are BAA (the sound a sheep makes) and YEAH. Are there any others?

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 8:33 am or possibly some learnèd French loans

*grins*

jcb wrote: ↑Fri Mar 28, 2025 11:24 am

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 8:33 am The thing is that final /æ ɑ/ outside of monosyllables (and then mostly interjections) or possibly some learnèd French loans are forbidden in the English here.

The only two words that end with /{/ that I can think of are BAA (the sound a sheep makes) and YEAH. Are there any others?

For me I have /æ/ in yeah and what I would spell as neah (this is not really a written word) and /ɑ/ in yah (think German ja), nah, baa, fa and la (as in the notes), and hah.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Mar 28, 2025 2:07 pm and what I would spell as neah (this is not really a written word)

What is that? Some kind of local version of "no"?

Raphael wrote: ↑Fri Mar 28, 2025 2:17 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Mar 28, 2025 2:07 pm and what I would spell as neah (this is not really a written word)

What is that? Some kind of local version of "no"?

Yeah, neah is a negative interjection, just like nah and the standard no.

There is one other example of final /æ/ I can think of -- /wæ/, which is onomatopoeia for the sound of a crying baby.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Mar 28, 2025 2:07 pm

jcb wrote: ↑Fri Mar 28, 2025 11:24 am

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 8:33 am The thing is that final /æ ɑ/ outside of monosyllables (and then mostly interjections) or possibly some learnèd French loans are forbidden in the English here.

The only two words that end with /{/ that I can think of are BAA (the sound a sheep makes) and YEAH. Are there any others?

For me I have /æ/ in yeah and what I would spell as neah (this is not really a written word) and /ɑ/ in yah (think German ja), nah, baa, fa and la (as in the notes), and hah.

What about spa?

For me yeah has /ɛ/ (i.e. it's simply yes without the /s/). The sheep noise is often /bɑː/ (as in "Baa Baa Black Sheep") but that seems like a terrible approximation to the noise sheep actually make (almost as bad as [vi]) and if for some reason I actually wanted to imitate one I'd use something based on the SQUARE vowel...

The actual examples of word final TRAP for me tend to be obviously French: pain au chocolat (which also has a nasalised vowel), fracas (where the s is silent here), etc. (NB the French I learned doesn't distinguish /a/ and /ɑ/.) Most examples I can think of are also often heard with /ɑː/.

anteallach wrote: ↑Sat Mar 29, 2025 4:37 amYEAH

I would think "yeah" has a falling diphthong, something like /eə/?


JAL

anteallach wrote: ↑Sat Mar 29, 2025 4:37 am

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Mar 28, 2025 2:07 pm

jcb wrote: ↑Fri Mar 28, 2025 11:24 am
The only two words that end with /{/ that I can think of are BAA (the sound a sheep makes) and YEAH. Are there any others?

For me I have /æ/ in yeah and what I would spell as neah (this is not really a written word) and /ɑ/ in yah (think German ja), nah, baa, fa and la (as in the notes), and hah.

What about spa?

Yeah, I forgot about spa -- it also has /ɑ/ for me.

anteallach wrote: ↑Sat Mar 29, 2025 4:37 am The actual examples of word final TRAP for me tend to be obviously French: pain au chocolat (which also has a nasalised vowel), fracas (where the s is silent here), etc. (NB the French I learned doesn't distinguish /a/ and /ɑ/.) Most examples I can think of are also often heard with /ɑː/.

I would pronounce pain au chocolat and fracas with final /ɑ/ but mind you my native /ɑ/ is normally [a(ː)] including in these two words.