Zompist Bboard Again

tokenism in tolkienism. it truly don't take me by surprise.

na but seriously, this is a species of tokenism that i don't think I object to. Tolkien's original vision is not thaaaat relevant, and whomsoever wants it can just go and read Tolkien anyway, and if it makes rightwingers triggered that muh elves where white, that's nice.

Don't get me, wrong, every objection to corporate onwership of the culture I agree with and more, but even if we were in communism and only self-managed cooperative movie studios existed to make the LoTR movie, they'd probably also want to have a black elf, and possibly would have cast Frodo to be a philipino dude or something. I'd probably be even more radical, like I don't know, all Men with the blood of Númenor are dravidian or something. make looks mean something in the movie, you know?

I don't understand people who object to racially diverse casting on the grounds that it "doesn't make sense." If you're casting for a role in Hollywood, one in six of your auditions are going to be black. The audience is going to be used to the idea that some smattering of people in a crowd will be black. Nobody says "Ugh, they should have cast someone with debilitating smallpox scars or bone-dissolving malnutrition in this film." You can put plastic ears on a guy from Dubuque and people are like "Wow, a real elf!" but you hire a black actor and these motherfuckers suddenly have a PhD in medieval European genetics. Just shut up. It's a fantasy world. I can have gay sex with circa 1996 Neve Campbell in Middle Earth if I want. Who's gonna stop me? Nerds?

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 5:49 pm I don't understand people who object to racially diverse casting on the grounds that it "doesn't make sense." If you're casting for a role in Hollywood, one in six of your auditions are going to be black. The audience is going to be used to the idea that some smattering of people in a crowd will be black. Nobody says "Ugh, they should have cast someone with debilitating smallpox scars or bone-dissolving malnutrition in this film." You can put plastic ears on a guy from Dubuque and people are like "Wow, a real elf!" but you hire a black actor and these motherfuckers suddenly have a PhD in medieval European genetics. Just shut up. It's a fantasy world. I can have gay sex with circa 1996 Neve Campbell in Middle Earth if I want. Who's gonna stop me? Nerds?

The thing is that if you want your fantasy world to be realistically racially diverse you should make it so. What's tokenism is to take your all-White cast and stick a single Black character into it to make it "racially diverse".

Honestly, I think the question of whether a character is tokenistic or not is irrelevant when a series has such gaping plot holes as these: https://acoup.blog/2022/12/16/collectio ... eels-flat/. (Which, incidentally, is why I have no desire to watch it.)

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:33 pm Honestly, I think the question of whether a character is tokenistic or not is irrelevant when a series has such gaping plot holes as these: https://acoup.blog/2022/12/16/collectio ... eels-flat/. (Which, incidentally, is why I have no desire to watch it.)

Yes, all I read about it makes it looks like it's an even bigger clusterfuck than the last seasons of GoT...

I don't expect much from a fic, officially licensed or otherwise.

hwhatting wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:01 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:33 pm Honestly, I think the question of whether a character is tokenistic or not is irrelevant when a series has such gaping plot holes as these: https://acoup.blog/2022/12/16/collectio ... eels-flat/. (Which, incidentally, is why I have no desire to watch it.)

Yes, all I read about it makes it looks like it's an even bigger clusterfuck than the last seasons of GoT...

RoP is a steaming pile of fecal matter. Terrible worldbuilding, writing, directing, and acting. It has nothing to do with Tolkien's Middle-earth aside from character & place names, and the high level plot that Sauron helps make the rings of power and the One Ring.
I stopped after 3 episodes.

Now that I think on it, Tolkien probably would've hated Amazon.

Yeah, I didn't much like rop either. it feels like a dungeons and dragons movie tbh.

speaking of which, the latest one i rather enjoyed.

'But what about this Frodo (who is black with broccoli hair) that lives with him?' asked Boomer Noaks of Byseltzer. 'Baggins is his name but he's more than half Brandybuck, they say. It beats me why an Baggins of Hobbiton should go looking for a girlfriend away there in Buckland, where folx are so not on fleek.

I have recently written out the intro to my dungeon and dragons campaign i'm planning (my father says i have to play one of the scenarios before i start on my own campaign).

The Demonic Throne
Players are nobles, diplomats or dignitaries in the state of Gallena-Alema set in a desert (which for some reason is fertile i got my ideas for the geography of this land from minecraft okay its even right next to an ice biome). You have deduced a plot by the Demon Worshipping Araki and the dark cults of the underground of the former empire to start a war with a powerful succesor state of the former Empire of the Sun (Novia) which would put the good powers of the world in peril (who doesn't love demon worshippers). Not least you fear for the safety of the five Ijǫ́var forged long ago by an elven smith to honour his god Iloun and each of which shines with the light of either the sun, the great moon, the north star, the sacred flame or lightning. The king is prepared to mobilise for war over the recent assasination of his son while visiting Novia and has sent forces to Tola Ereśi a former colony of his allies the Golden Elves of Lindia. You must lead your party to discover the plot before war breaks out giving the demon worshippers a chance to invade.

kids these days, taught D&D by their fathers. in my day, we had to walk *without podcasts* all the way to the copy shop and scavenge the unclaimed jobs bin for roleplaying materials. or, if we were feeling lucky, scavenge dialup internet sites for homebrew rules.

Torco wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 9:41 pm kids these days, taught D&D by their fathers. in my day, we had to walk *without podcasts* all the way to the copy shop and scavenge the unclaimed jobs bin for roleplaying materials. or, if we were feeling lucky, scavenge dialup internet sites for homebrew rules.

We had Kay-Bee Toy and Hobby. It was a sign of progress when playbooks and modules began to appear at Waldenbooks.

foxcatdog wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 6:49 amBecause sci fi sucks cause no mystique.

I've always preferred science fiction because it feels more grounded and relevant. So many issues addressed in science fiction, from artificial intelligence to space travel, are now realities and the genre gives us a framework for understanding them. By contrast, dragons and wizards have little connection to the real world.

malloc wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 10:37 am I've always preferred science fiction because it feels more grounded and relevant. So many issues addressed in science fiction, from artificial intelligence to space travel, are now realities and the genre gives us a framework for understanding them. By contrast, dragons and wizards have little connection to the real world.

Why does everything have to be grounded, relevant, and connected to the real world? Especially in fiction? When I want to read (or watch) something that's grounded, relevant, and connected to the real world, I read (or watch) non-fiction.

malloc wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 10:37 am

foxcatdog wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 6:49 amBecause sci fi sucks cause no mystique.

I've always preferred science fiction because it feels more grounded and relevant. So many issues addressed in science fiction, from artificial intelligence to space travel, are now realities and the genre gives us a framework for understanding them.

Does it? Lots of scifi has very unrealistic takes on how certain technologies will affect society.

Ultimately, it's not the setting that makes fiction "grounded" or "relevant"; it's the author's knowledge of the real world and skill at writing. Are Ursula LeGuin's fantasy novels less "grounded and relevant" than her science fiction novels?

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 11:42 am Does it? Lots of scifi has very unrealistic takes on how certain technologies will affect society.

And some of it has given people nonsensical ideas about what is possible and how the world works. People smarter than me have pointed out on some occasions that a lot of the more out there current far right conspiracy theories seem to have plots taken from late 20th century sci-fi movies.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 10:06 amWe had Kay-Bee Toy and Hobby. It was a sign of progress when playbooks and modules began to appear at Waldenbooks.

names don't mean anything to me, but like... are they general-purpose bookstores? here RPG material can still only be found in game shops: you know, the kind of place where there's probably a table to play warhammer on, where they sell D20s, MTG, old FASA battletech books, various boardgames and maybe dakimakuras as well. I don't think I've seen like the ravenloft campaign setting book sitting next to the da vinci code.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 11:42 amUltimately, it's not the setting that makes fiction "grounded" or "relevant"; it's the author's knowledge of the real world and skill at writing. Are Ursula LeGuin's fantasy novels less "grounded and relevant" than her science fiction novels?

I should have noted that this is merely my personal and subjective opinion and not intended as an objective repudiation of fantasy. None the less, I find it way easier to imagine AI taking over the world or space colonization becoming a reality than magic being shown to exist. I worry everyday about AI becoming too powerful for us to control, whereas I've never once worried about a dragon laying waste to my hometown.

malloc wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 12:37 pm

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 11:42 amUltimately, it's not the setting that makes fiction "grounded" or "relevant"; it's the author's knowledge of the real world and skill at writing. Are Ursula LeGuin's fantasy novels less "grounded and relevant" than her science fiction novels?

I should have noted that this is merely my personal and subjective opinion and not intended as an objective repudiation of fantasy. None the less, I find it way easier to imagine AI taking over the world or space colonization becoming a reality than magic being shown to exist.

I should note that a lot of science fiction is really just fantasy set in space, and hence is better described as space opera.