Weird linguistic behavior with family member words

Natural languages and linguistics
User avatar
WeepingElf
Posts: 1462
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:39 pm
Location: Braunschweig, Germany
Contact:

Re: Weird linguistic behavior with family member words

Post by WeepingElf »

Raphael wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2024 12:28 pm
WeepingElf wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:45 pm Travis refers to the construction with what is called the dative external possessor, as in Ich wasche mir die Hände 'I wash my hands'. It would be weird to say Ich wasche mir meine Hände (but Ich wasche meine Hände is OK). But it would also be weird to say Ich wasche mir das Auto; you say Ich wasche mein Auto.
Ah, thank you, I hadn't thought of that. Not sure if the distinction there is purely between body parts and everything else. For instance, I might also say "Ich habe mir das T-Shirt eingesaut" "I got my t-shirt dirty/messed up".
Of course, the T-shirt is neither a body part nor an inalienable possession, but it is at least closer to the body than a car. And I feel as if this construction implies that I did so while wearing it (as opposed to getting it dirty by using it to mop up dirt, or anything like that).
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
My conlang pages
Travis B.
Posts: 6587
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: Weird linguistic behavior with family member words

Post by Travis B. »

WeepingElf wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2024 2:31 pm
Raphael wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2024 12:28 pm
WeepingElf wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:45 pm Travis refers to the construction with what is called the dative external possessor, as in Ich wasche mir die Hände 'I wash my hands'. It would be weird to say Ich wasche mir meine Hände (but Ich wasche meine Hände is OK). But it would also be weird to say Ich wasche mir das Auto; you say Ich wasche mein Auto.
Ah, thank you, I hadn't thought of that. Not sure if the distinction there is purely between body parts and everything else. For instance, I might also say "Ich habe mir das T-Shirt eingesaut" "I got my t-shirt dirty/messed up".
Of course, the T-shirt is neither a body part nor an inalienable possession, but it is at least closer to the body than a car. And I feel as if this construction implies that I did so while wearing it (as opposed to getting it dirty by using it to mop up dirt, or anything like that).
Apparently clothing patterns with body parts this way in use cases like this.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
Richard W
Posts: 1447
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:53 pm

Re: Weird linguistic behavior with family member words

Post by Richard W »

WeepingElf wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2024 11:28 am This is just one "exotic" linguistic feature that occasionally shines up in this or that major European language. Another is ergatiity - just look at the English suffix -ee: an escapee is someone who escapes, but an employee is not someone who employs, rather someone who is employed. Ergativity in English!
That doesn't look like ergativity to me. Moreover, it doesn't mean 'one who escapes', but 'one who has escaped'. It's simply a case of the active/passive distinction being lost, which is also common with intransitive verbs. It's related to past passive participles being used without the sense 'past' or without the sense 'passive',
Post Reply