Zompist Bboard Again

Pabappa wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:53 pm those pronuncs are just for the shoe company, right ? A bit odd since Niké the goddess is pronounced with two full vowels. I guess it's a hyperforeignism that stuck. The town of Nice is named after Nike, btw.

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I made the same mistake with "albeit", and I think it's easy to understand.... Arbeit is just 1letter off.

No, Niké isn't written with an accute accent (e with no accent is silent word-finally). Not that people'd know about Athéna Niké (except Niçois and people named Nicolas )

Ars Lande wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:57 pm

Pabappa wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:53 pm those pronuncs are just for the shoe company, right ? A bit odd since Niké the goddess is pronounced with two full vowels. I guess it's a hyperforeignism that stuck. The town of Nice is named after Nike, btw.

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I made the same mistake with "albeit", and I think it's easy to understand.... Arbeit is just 1letter off.

No, Niké isn't written with an accute accent (e with no accent is silent word-finally). Not that people'd know about Athéna Niké (except Niçois and people named Nicolas )

*sighs*
Clearly the fame of the Winged Victory of Samothrace has declined...

Most people around here say /naIk/, btw. I've even been mocked for saying it with two syllables.

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LB: it's difficult; tell someone they've pronounced something wrong and they tell you to fuck off; don't tell someone they've pronounced something wrongly and they tell you to fuck off when someone else corrects them and they realise you knew all along and didn't tell them...

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-e words: indeed. For me, they were mostly the issue with names - took me a while to realise I was saying Mnemosyne wrong. [although unsurprisingly I always knew Psyche...]

jal wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:14 am Also: solder. Pronounced it with GOAT and an l.

Which is indeed correct! [allowing that GOAT isn't quite the same before /l/]. Although you do also hear people with /Q/ in it.]

LB: you do hear Dukas with no /s/ quite often, even from people who should know better. Berlioz with no /z/, though, isn't something I've ever heard.

I'm told some people have a problem with Dvorak, though I've never heard that myself. [obviously people don't use the 'correct' Czech version, but the standardised English version]


I used to have a lot of difficulty with Spanish names - I'd try to pronounce them as French, or occasionally Italian. I think it's just that Spanish falls into that awkward category - significant enough for people to notice when you get it wrong, but obscure enough that it takes a long time to learn how to get it right, since it's a language you very rarely hear spoken.

Salmoneus wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:17 pmI think it's just that Spanish falls into that awkward category - significant enough for people to notice when you get it wrong, but obscure enough that it takes a long time to learn how to get it right, since it's a language you very rarely hear spoken.

Not if you live in Florida. :p

For whatever reason, I mentally pronounced elixir as /ɪˈlɛksər/ for a while. Maybe it's similar to the phenomenon of pronouncing Semitic as /sɪˈmɛtɪk/, which is something else I have had trouble with (when I'm consciously choosing which pronunciation to use, I say /sɪˈmɪtɪk/).

And I used to pronounce Presbyterian as /ˌprɛsbɪˈteriən~ˌprɛspɪˈteriən/, probably influenced by all the words that end in -arian /eriən/. I doubt I'm the only person who uses this pronunciation, but it doesn't seem to be common in dictionaries, so I currently aim for /ˌprɛzbɪˈtiriən/ instead. (Both /s/ and /z/ pronunciations are listed in dictionaries, but I've come to prefer /z/ because that way I can easily pronounce the following consonant as /b/ instead of as /p/—also, the analogy of lesbian makes me feel like /zb/ is probably more regular.)

Salmoneus wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:01 pm -e words: indeed. For me, they were mostly the issue with names - took me a while to realise I was saying Mnemosyne wrong. [although unsurprisingly I always knew Psyche...]

The annoying thing is that the standard pronunciations of words/names ending in E aren't quite according to etymology, just mostly. So "Calliope" is commonly heard with final /i/ (although apparently some people argue about whether a "silent e" pronunciation is "correct" for the instrument), but "Irene" is often two syllables, despite coming from Greek εἰρήνη. And (in my dialect at least) it would sound quite eccentric or pedantic to "pronounce the e" in rationale, vice versa, or bona fide(s), but it would equally sound incorrect to leave it "silent" in simile or sine qua non.

In the context of Greek mythology, though, I think it's a pretty reliable rule that E is pronounced as a distinct syllable at the end of female names (where it is typically from Greek η). I didn't realize for a while that this also applies to E in Danae and Pasiphae (although I knew about the disyllabic pronunciation of Zoe, which provides a common example of E in hiatus after another vowel letter).

Talking about Greek mythology, I just learned that "Sisyphean" is stressed on the third, as opposed to the second, syllable.


JAL

My Mom for some reason has a habit of pronouncing the "M" in "MB" (as in, short for "megabyte") the French way.

Raphael wrote: ↑Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:01 am My Mom for some reason has a habit of pronouncing the "M" in "MB" (as in, short for "megabyte") the French way.

How is that different from the way you'd expect her to pronounce it? I thought the name of M was pronounced /ɛm/ in all of French, English and German (I'm not sure which language you are talking about here)

Estav wrote: ↑Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:35 am

Raphael wrote: ↑Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:01 am My Mom for some reason has a habit of pronouncing the "M" in "MB" (as in, short for "megabyte") the French way.

How is that different from the way you'd expect her to pronounce it? I thought the name of M was pronounced /ɛm/ in all of French, English and German (I'm not sure which language you are talking about here)

She pronounces it as something like "awm". (Sorry, I don't know the IPA.)

Estav wrote: ↑Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:28 amAnd I used to pronounce Presbyterian as /ˌprɛsbɪˈteriən~ˌprɛspɪˈteriən/, probably influenced by all the words that end in -arian /eriən/. I doubt I'm the only person who uses this pronunciation

I use it. I also have /ey/ in Cimmerian, valerian, and Valyrian.

Estav wrote:(Both /s/ and /z/ pronunciations are listed in dictionaries, but I've come to prefer /z/ because that way I can easily pronounce the following consonant as /b/ instead of as /p/—also, the analogy of lesbian makes me feel like /zb/ is probably more regular.)

IMD it's all about the stress: in lesbian it falls before the cluster so /z/ is preserved but in Presbyterian it comes later so there's regressive assimilation. Similarly di[sk]ust, not di[zg]ust (which I first remember hearing in the film Cat on a Hot Tin Roof where it felt very affected to me).

Estav wrote:The annoying thing is that the standard pronunciations of words/names ending in E aren't quite according to etymology, just mostly. So "Calliope" is commonly heard with final /i/ (although apparently some people argue about whether a "silent e" pronunciation is "correct" for the instrument), but "Irene" is often two syllables, despite coming from Greek εἰρήνη. And (in my dialect at least) it would sound quite eccentric or pedantic to "pronounce the e" in rationale, vice versa, or bona fide(s), but it would equally sound incorrect to leave it "silent" in simile or sine qua non.

I don't think I've ever heard trisyllabic Irene from a native speaker of English; I probably wouldn't know what name they were saying at first.

All this time I'd assumed rationale was borrowed via French and, indeed, Fowler ascribed the loss of the -e to analogy with morale, locale, etc. When I was younger I did assume vice versa in four syllables was an eccentric pronunciation influenced by ablaut reduplications like tippy-top or pitty-pat. Now I know better and it doesn't sound odd to me.

Raphael wrote: ↑Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:02 amShe pronounces it as something like "awm". (Sorry, I don't know the IPA.)

Which is faux-French at best. Also, learn IPA, you can't survive without.


JAL

I work in IT; the only correct way to pronounce MB is with a prenasalized stop.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:47 amI don't think I've ever heard trisyllabic Irene from a native speaker of English; I probably wouldn't know what name they were saying at first.

And I certainly wouldn't think to tell her goodnight. >_>

Zaarin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:54 am

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:47 amI don't think I've ever heard trisyllabic Irene from a native speaker of English; I probably wouldn't know what name they were saying at first.

And I certainly wouldn't think to tell her goodnight. >_>

Dude, I am old as shit and even *I* barely get that reference. (It's one of my dad's favourite songs. He still remembers wartime rationing.)

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:30 am

Zaarin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:54 am

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:47 amI don't think I've ever heard trisyllabic Irene from a native speaker of English; I probably wouldn't know what name they were saying at first.

And I certainly wouldn't think to tell her goodnight. >_>

Dude, I am old as shit and even *I* barely get that reference. (It's one of my dad's favourite songs. He still remembers wartime rationing.)

Well, I'm only 28, but I love 30s/40s/50s music. And also BioShock Infinite. (Ironically, though, my first exposure to the song was actually Bob Hope, Bing Crosby, and Judy Garland's parody.)

Ahh, yes, my old thread and my memories of my contributions...

I'm STILL trying to teach myself that sparse and scarce don't rhyme (for a long time I've thought that the former rhymed with the latter).

When I first saw the word Velociraptor, I thought it was stressed on the first and fourth syllables, with the fourth syllable being the primary stress. Had to unlearn that after watching Jurassic Park.

Also, for the longest time I thought the l was silent in the name Gandalf, by analogy with words like half and calf. I still sometimes slip in this regard.

JT the Ninja wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:13 pmAlso, for the longest time I thought the l was silent in the name Gandalf, by analogy with words like half and calf. I still sometimes slip in this regard.

If it were an English name rather than Old Norse, /ˈgændɒf/ probably would be its pronunciation, and being a philologist Professor Tolkien probably wouldn't begrudge you that pronunciation. But /ˈgɑndɑlf/ is probably closer to what he intended...

Since the Shire was based on the West Midlands, I think he meant some rural West Midlands dialect pronunciation

mèþru wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:29 pm Since the Shire was based on the West Midlands, I think he meant some rural West Midlands dialect pronunciation

Gandalf's name is said to come from Men of the Northlands, like Dale or Rhovanion, though, not from the Shire. Perhaps that's how Hobbits would pronounce it, though.