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Re: United States Politics Thread 47

Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2025 5:18 pm
by malloc
Linguoboy wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 3:34 pmWhat "efforts"? I've heard about him grandstanding on the issue in speeches, but has there actually been any kind of official proposal, let alone an attempt to contact anyone who could conceivably entertain an offer?

Trudeau said there wasn't "a snowball's chance in hell" that Canada would merge with the USA, the Prime Minister of Greenland has repeatedly stated that Greenland is not for sale, and President José Raúl Mulino says Panama has no intention of selling the canal. Granted, these could simply be hard initial bargaining conditions, but until there's an actual offer it's all nothing more than bluster from someone with a strong track record of not following through on his promises and proposals.
Everyone said the same thing when Hitler came to power, that he was merely bluffing about wanting to expand Germany and annex neighboring countries. We should start with the assumption that Trump, like his spiritual predecessors, is sincere in his malign declarations.
keenir wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 4:35 pmAlso, it took us over 200 years to accept the possibility of a Catholic President...we turned down the Philipines(sp), and have been doing a song-and-dance with P.R......does Trump think MAGA is going to accept Quebec?
That assumes they decide to grant statehood to Canadian provinces. It seems more likely to me that Canada becomes a US territory (or several) like Puerto Rico with some level of autonomy but no vote in US elections or congressional seats.

Re: United States Politics Thread 47

Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2025 5:41 pm
by zompist
malloc wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 5:18 pmWe should start with the assumption that Trump, like his spiritual predecessors, is sincere in his malign declarations.
No, we should not, for reasons I and linguoboy have already given. And you should not, if you want to participate in this thread.

Re: United States Politics Thread 47

Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2025 5:52 pm
by Travis B.
What we have seen of Trump is that he is not very good at following through with his promises, e.g. not only did Mexico not pay for the wall, very little of it was built in the first place (what was built was largely repairs to existing walls).

Re: United States Politics Thread 47

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:27 am
by Raphael
Travis B. wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 5:52 pm e.g. not only did Mexico not pay for the wall, very little of it was built in the first place (what was built was largely repairs to existing walls).
I remember one of his officials saying that the wall might be "virtual", and someone on social media commenting that this meant migrants would have to wear Google Glasses so that they could see it.

Re: United States Politics Thread 47

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 8:09 am
by Travis B.
Raphael wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:27 am
Travis B. wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 5:52 pm e.g. not only did Mexico not pay for the wall, very little of it was built in the first place (what was built was largely repairs to existing walls).
I remember one of his officials saying that the wall might be "virtual", and someone on social media commenting that this meant migrants would have to wear Google Glasses so that they could see it.
The Emperor's New Wall, I see!

Re: United States Politics Thread 47

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 9:40 am
by Torco
Zju wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 3:15 pm So what does everyone think about Trump's efforts to acquire Canada, Greenland and Panama canal?
I called it: he will meaningfully hurt the US's reputation as a trustworthy and stable hegemon in the eyes of us allies. (https://www.reuters.com/video/watch/idR ... 012025RP1/) but I don't think he will actually invade Denmark anytime soon. I'd bet like 1 currencies against 10 that he will invade either canada, greenland, panama or some other nominal us ally before his term is up (i pay 1 buck if he doesn't, i get 10 if he does) which is to say I have high but not total certainty he won't do so, but such talk *is* destabilizing even if it's just talk.
_____

How true do we think it is that musk is like the shadow president?

Re: United States Politics Thread 47

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 11:38 am
by Linguoboy
Torco wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 9:40 amHow true do we think it is that musk is like the shadow president?
I think that's overstating it. He has influence over Trump and his policies, but more than Stephen Miller or Steve Bannon during his first term? I don't see it. The memoirs of former staff are filled with anecdotes about how difficult it is to get DJT to focus on anything or understand how government actually works and his mental capacities have only declined since then (quite seriously, according to some sources).

Re: United States Politics Thread 47

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 12:01 pm
by Torco
yeah, shadow president implies that he has more power than the real president (or that the real president isn't etcetera) and that's almost certainly false: but it's pretty clear that heading a government agency that closes (or at least hamstrings) other government agencies qualifies as more power than Bannon would have had, no?

Re: United States Politics Thread 47

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 1:43 pm
by jcb
So, how long do you think that it will it take for Trump and Musk to have a falling out? ( https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-t ... e013ac5fc4 )

As the saying somewhat goes, having too many cooks in the kitchen spoils the meal, especially when both cooks are egotistical narcissistic megalomaniacal billionaires.

Re: United States Politics Thread 47

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 3:45 am
by keenir
Travis B. wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 5:52 pm What we have seen of Trump is that he is not very good at following through with his promises, e.g. not only did Mexico not pay for the wall, very little of it was built in the first place (what was built was largely repairs to existing walls).
I think one BBC News interviewee put it best: Trump's specialty is sucking the air out of rooms, so nobody has the energy (or time) to engage in serious conversations.

Heck, he's doing this during parts of Carter's funeral!

Re: United States Politics Thread 47

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 8:43 am
by Raphael
How did I make it from last May until today without coming across this neat little cartoon?

"Evidence that we are living in a dystopian satire written by an utter hack":

https://prospect.org/power/2024-05-14-t ... ern-world/

I've been thinking something along those lines since about 2015. Glad to see that I'm not the only one.

Re: United States Politics Thread 47

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 10:35 am
by Ares Land
Zju wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 3:15 pm So what does everyone think about Trump's efforts to acquire Canada, Greenland and Panama canal?
I'm suprised that there has been surprising little protest -- there have been official reactions, but not as much as we can expect.
I don't know what that means -- maybe Trump isn't really taken that seriously?
jcb wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 1:43 pm So, how long do you think that it will it take for Trump and Musk to have a falling out? ( https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-t ... e013ac5fc4 )

As the saying somewhat goes, having too many cooks in the kitchen spoils the meal, especially when both cooks are egotistical narcissistic megalomaniacal billionaires.
I give them about a year. The visa thing was already difficult, and that was even before the official inauguration.

Re: United States Politics Thread 47

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 10:43 am
by Raphael
Ares Land wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2025 10:35 am
Zju wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 3:15 pm So what does everyone think about Trump's efforts to acquire Canada, Greenland and Panama canal?
I'm suprised that there has been surprising little protest -- there have been official reactions, but not as much as we can expect.
I don't know what that means -- maybe Trump isn't really taken that seriously?
More like, people have no idea how to react, I guess.

Re: United States Politics Thread 47

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 11:17 am
by malloc
Ares Land wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2025 10:35 amI'm suprised that there has been surprising little protest -- there have been official reactions, but not as much as we can expect.
I don't know what that means -- maybe Trump isn't really taken that seriously?
I feel like there is much less outrage against Trump this time as compared with the last time he was elected. Perhaps the general population has simply moved far to the right or maybe people are simply burnt out and too tired to fight anymore.

Re: United States Politics Thread 47

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 11:08 pm
by Torco
A fair guess is that, if you know a king is coming, or an authoritarian strongman which is similar enough, it's in your own best interest to not be seen to oppose him: kings tend to be unkind towards those that publicly announce their disloyalty to the king.

Re: United States Politics Thread 47

Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2025 12:06 am
by zompist
Or possibly neither of you are in a position to declare what the "general population" feels, or what the plans of activists are.

I'd note that the second post in this thread, Emily's, helpfully points out protests scheduled for Jan. 20. So it is accurate to say that no protests are planned, if you ignore the protests that are planned.

Re: United States Politics Thread 47

Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2025 3:15 pm
by jcb

Re: United States Politics Thread 47

Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2025 4:15 pm
by jcb

Re: United States Politics Thread 47

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 8:25 pm
by jcb
Trump has saved TikTok!... after being the one to suggest to ban it in the first place years ago!
https://www.reuters.com/technology/tikt ... 025-01-19/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e9pI4UMdc4

Re: United States Politics Thread 47

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 9:05 pm
by malloc
While acknowledging that Harris was far from perfect and would not have solved the deeper systemic issues facing this country, I cannot overstate how much I wish she had won. She would not have gotten us off the death row of late-stage capitalism by any means, but she would have given us a last minute reprieve.