Zompist Bboard Again

Edits: Formatting and clarifications.

Note: Unfortunately, I didn't have time to create a minimalistic grammar out of this. This could also be more wrong or inconsistent than usual.

Hashi, the unknown language (an example of the Boreal branch)

1. Phonology

1.1 Vowels

/i e ə a u/

tsi ‘water’
wə ‘fire’
zu ‘dog’
haŋ ‘moon’
ʃə ‘what’
neʔ ‘whale’

No phonemic length or diphthongs are needed at this stage; complex vowels in earlier stages have collapsed into these five.

1.2 Consonants

The Hashi consonant system includes:

Stops & affricates
/p b t k q/
/ts č ǰ/

Fricatives
/f v s z ʃ ʒ h/

Nasals
/m n ŋ/

Liquids
/l r/

Glides
/w j/ (j can be orthographically y)

Glottal
/ʔ/

črun ‘bear’
tsliʔ ‘bow’
čus ‘arrow’
shreə ‘forest’
tsur ‘north, high north sky’
wiʔ ‘monster, kaiju-beast’
ssu ‘night’
tsluʔ ‘gate’

Retroflex ɽ and various uvulars in intermediate stages have merged into simpler /r, k, q/ patterns before reaching Hashi.

1.3 Syllable structure and phonotactics

(C)(C)V(C)

Onsets:

Single consonant: any consonant.
Clusters: mostly s/ʃ + obstruent or stop/affricate + sonorant, as you see in forms like:

shreə /ʃ.re.ə/
tsliʔ /ts.liʔ/
črun /č.run/
shrus /ʃ.rus/

Codas:

At most one consonant: /m, n, ŋ, r, l, s, ʃ, ʔ/ are common in coda position.
The pipeline explicitly reduces final consonant clusters.

Glottal stop ʔ appears mostly:

As a coda: tsliʔ, wiʔ, neʔ, nuʔ
Very rarely word-initially.

Historically, many final h become ʔ in Hashi.

1.4 Prosody and glottalization

We don’t mark tone in Hashi, but the presence vs absence of coda ʔ is prosodically important and will later feed tonogenesis/ejectives in the daughters.

wiʔ vs hypothetical wi (distinct).
nuʔ ‘many’ vs nu ‘sleep’.

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2. Lexical categories

Hashi distinguishes at least these open and closed classes:

Nouns: ǰem ‘person’, mi ‘woman’, tslam ‘realm’.
Verbs: nu ‘sleep’, piŋ ‘eat’, shəʒi ‘see’, hun ‘strike’.
Adjectives / statives: ʒə ‘good’, hin ‘dry’, vlis ‘wet’, fraŋ ‘big’.
Postpositions: -qa ‘at, in, on’ (locative).
Particles & conjunctions:

a ‘and’
zə ‘but, however’
hə ‘not’ (negator)
Pronouns & interrogatives:

hu ‘I’, ha ‘you (sg)’, shis ‘we’
hes ‘that’ (distal demonstrative)
ʃə ‘what’, huʔ ‘who’.

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3. Nouns

3.1 Basic noun structure

Nouns are unmarked for number and case; they are bare stems:

ǰem ‘person / people’
mi ‘woman / women’
his ‘child / children’
tslam ‘realm, empire’
she ‘sea, ocean’
shreə ‘forest’
ssa ‘island’

Number and relation come from quantifiers, postpositions, and verb morphology.

3.2 Number and quantification

Number is mostly semantic. The quantifiers are:

čul ‘all, every’
nuʔ ‘many’
hirʃuʔ ‘some, a few’

Examples:

1. čul ǰem
all person
“all the people”

2. nuʔ mi
many woman
“many women”

3. hirʃuʔ his
some child
“some children”

Bare noun is number-neutral:

4. his nu-i.
child sleep-IPFV
“The child is sleeping / children are sleeping (context decides).”

3.3 Locative and other case-like relations

The main overt relational marker is the postposition -qa:

N-qa = ‘at, in, on N’

Examples:

5. ǰem ssu-qa nu-i.
person night-LOC sleep-IPFV
“The person sleeps at night.”

6. she-qa tsi vlis.
sea-LOC water wet
“The water at the sea is wet.”

7. shreə-qa zu sə-i.
forest-LOC dog go-IPFV
“The dog is going in the forest.”

More specific relations (source, goal, etc.) are done by combining directional prefixes on verbs (see §5.4) with locative N-qa.

3.4 Compounding

Hashi uses simple N+N compounds:

tslam-tsluʔ → “realm-gate” (imperial gate, sacred gate)
she-ssa → “sea-island” (offshore island)

Orthographically you can write compounds with or without a hyphen; the grammar treats them as one word.

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4. Pronouns and demonstratives

4.1 Free personal pronouns

1SG hu I
2SG ha you (sg)
1PL shis we

3rd person is usually expressed by NPs or demonstratives:

hes ‘that (one)’ as a 3rd-person-like pronoun.

Examples:

8. hu d-nu-i.
1SG 1SG-sleep-IPFV
“I am sleeping.”

9. hes ǰlas.
that old
“That one is old.”

4.2 Interrogative pronouns

ʃə ‘what’
huʔ ‘who’

10. ʃə ha shəʒi-a?
what 2SG see-PFV
“What did you see?”

11. huʔ tsliʔ hun-a ǰem-qa?
who bow strike-PFV person-LOC
“Who shot the person with a bow?”

4.3 Demonstratives

hes ‘that (distal)’ also serves as a demonstrative determiner:

12. hes ǰem ʒə.
that person good
“That person is good.”

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5. Possession

Hashi uses a possessive connector ŋ- especially with inalienables (body parts, close kin). It’s a bound prefix before the noun:

[Possessor NP] ŋ-N = “possessor’s N”

Examples:

tslel ‘path, road’
tsliʔ ‘bow’
sfis ‘memory’

13. hu ŋ-tsliʔ ʒə.
1SG POSS-bow good
“My bow is good.”

14. shis ŋ-tslel fraŋ.
1PL POSS-path big
“Our path is big/long.”

For alienable possession, simple juxtaposition with an optional ŋ- is also common:

15. mi tsliʔ
woman bow
“the woman’s bow”

16. mi ŋ-tsliʔ
woman POSS-bow
“the woman’s bow” (stronger or more inalienable nuance)

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6. Verbs and verbal morphology

6.1 TAM suffixes

Verbs are marked for aspect/tense by suffixes:

-a – perfective (PFV), completed event
-i – imperfective (IPFV), ongoing/habitual

Examples:

ǰe ‘die’ → ǰe-a ‘died’, ǰe-i ‘is dying / dies’
nu ‘sleep’ → nu-a, nu-i
piŋ ‘eat’ → piŋ-a, piŋ-i
shəʒi ‘see’ → shəʒi-a, shəʒi-i

17. ǰem ǰe-a.
person die-PFV
“The person died.”

18. zu sə-i.
dog go-IPFV
“The dog is going / runs.”

6.2 Subject person prefixes

A set of subject agreement prefixes is used on the verb:

d- – 1SG
b- – 2SG
l- – 1PL
g- – 3SG animate
Ø- – 3rd inanimate (no prefix)

These prefix the lexical verb root (plus any valence/directional prefixes).

19. d-nu-i.
1SG-sleep-IPFV
“I am sleeping.”

20. b-sə-a.
2SG-go-PFV
“You went.”

21. l-piŋ-a čuŋiʔ.
1PL-eat-PFV fish
“We ate fish.”

22. g-ǰe-a wiʔ.
3SG-die-PFV monster
“The monster died.”

Free pronouns can co-occur with prefixes for emphasis:

23. hu d-nu-i ssu-qa.
1SG 1SG-sleep-IPFV night-LOC
“I (myself) sleep at night.”

6.3 Valence / applicative prefixes

From earlier stages, Hashi retains valence prefixes:

m- – benefactive, goal (“for, to someone”)
n- – instrumental / causative (“with, by means of”)
w- – comitative / associative (“along with, together with”)

These sit between the subject prefix and the root.

24. hu mi čuŋiʔ d-m-tsri-a.
1SG woman fish 1SG-BEN-give-PFV
“I gave the fish for the woman / to the woman.”

25. g-n-hun-a hem-qa.
3SG-INSTR-strike-PFV stone-LOC
“He struck (it) with a stone.”

26. l-w-sə-i zu-qa.
1PL-COM-go-IPFV dog-LOC
“We go together with the dog.”

6.4 Directional prefix

A directional prefix s- means roughly “toward, up into, into contact with” and appears in a dedicated slot:

S – (VAL) – DIR – ROOT – TAM

27. l-s-sə-i shreə-qa.
1PL-DIR-go-IPFV forest-LOC
“We are going into the forest.”

28. g-m-s-hun-a wiʔ-qa.
3SG-BEN-DIR-strike-PFV monster-LOC
“He struck toward the monster for someone (e.g. on someone’s behalf).”

6.5 Negation

Negation is handled by a particle hə placed before the verb complex:

29. hə d-nu-i.
NEG 1SG-sleep-IPFV
“I am not sleeping.”

30. hə g-piŋ-a čuŋiʔ.
NEG 3SG-eat-PFV fish
“He did not eat the fish.”

hə can also negate non-verbal predicates:

31. hə haŋ fri.
NEG moon bright
“The moon is not bright.”

6.6 The verb template

Putting it together, a typical Hashi finite verb can be analyzed as:

(NEG) – (Preverb) – S – (VAL) – (DIR) – ROOT – (DERIV) – TAM

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7. Adjectives and statives

Adjectives are stative roots and behave like verbs in predicative position; they can also appear attributively before a noun.

ʒə ‘good’
hin ‘dry’
vlis ‘wet’
fraŋ ‘big’
tsaʔ ‘small’
ǰlas ‘old’
hiŋ ‘new’
čeʔ ‘dark’
fri ‘bright’

7.1 Attributive use

Adjectives precede the noun:

32. ʒə ǰem
good person
“a good person”

33. fraŋ tsliʔ
big bow
“a big bow”

34. hiŋ sfre
new story
“a new story”

7.2 Predicative use (no copula)

In predicative position they act like intransitive stative verbs:

35. ǰem ʒə.
person good
“The person is good.”

36. tsi vlis.
water wet
“The water is wet.”

37. ssu čeʔ.
night dark
“The night is dark.”

38. haŋ fri a ssu čeʔ.
moon bright and night dark
“The moon is bright and the night is dark.”

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8. Adverbs and particles

Most adverbial meanings come from:

Locative phrases: ssu-qa ‘at night’, tsur-qa ‘in the north sky’.
Lexical items: sfi ‘magic’ can be used in instrumental constructions; sfis ‘memory’ in temporal/epistemic ways.
Conjunctions/particles:

a ‘and’
zə ‘but, however’
hə ‘not’

Example:

39. sfi n-hun-a wiʔ-qa, zə ǰem nu-i.
magic INSTR-strike-PFV monster-LOC but person sleep-IPFV
“Magic struck the monster, but the person sleeps.”

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9. Syntax

9.1 Basic clause order

Neutral word order is SOV (or S–Adj in equative clauses), but:

Subject and object can be omitted when clear from verb prefixes.
Topics and focused elements can be fronted.

40. hu čuŋiʔ d-piŋ-a.
1SG fish 1SG-eat-PFV
“I ate the fish.”

41. čuŋiʔ hu d-piŋ-a.
fish 1SG 1SG-eat-PFV
“It’s the fish that I ate.” (focus on the fish)

42. d-piŋ-a.
1SG-eat-PFV
“I ate (it).”

9.2 Noun phrase structure

Within the NP, the typical order is:

[Quantifier] [Adjective(s)] [Noun] [Postposition]

43. čul fraŋ ǰem-qa
all big person-LOC
“among all the big people”

44. hirʃuʔ tsaʔ his
some small child
“some small child(ren)”

9.3 Questions

9.3.1 Content questions

Interrogatives appear in the syntactic slot of the questioned phrase:

45. ʃə ha shəʒi-a?
what 2SG see-PFV
“What did you see?”

46. huʔ tsur-qa l-sə-i?
who north-LOC 1PL-go-IPFV
“Who goes north with us?”

9.3.2 Yes–no questions

Yes–no questions are formed by intonation; optionally ʃə can appear clause-final as a Q-particle:

47. ha tsliʔ g-hun-a ǰem-qa ʃə?
you bow 3SG-strike-PFV person-LOC Q
“Did you shoot the person with a bow?”

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10. Subordination and clause chaining

Subordination is mostly paratactic or uses non-finite verbs (often without subject prefixes) before a finite main clause.

48. piŋ-a čuŋiʔ, hu d-nu-i.
eat-PFV fish 1SG 1SG-sleep-IPFV
“Having eaten fish, I sleep.”
(Literally: “Ate fish, I sleep.”)

49. sfre fril-i, haŋ fri.
story sing-IPFV moon bright
“When the story is being sung, the moon is bright.”

The aspectual forms -i vs -a in initial clauses help express simultaneity vs prior action.

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11. Example mini-text (Hashi + gloss)

50.

ssu-qa shəmsi vlis, shreə hin.
night-LOC snow wet forest dry
“On the night, the snow is wet and the forest is dry.”

51.

hu zu-qa l-w-sə-i shreə-qa.
1SG dog-LOC 1PL-COM-DIR-go-IPFV forest-LOC
“I go with the dog into the forest with my people.”

52.

neʔ sfi n-hun-a wiʔ-qa.
whale magic INSTR-strike-PFV monster-LOC
“The whale’s magic struck the monster.”

53.

sfis ǰlas, ǰem hiŋ.
memory old person new
“The memory is old, the person is new.”

54.

hə d-nu-i ssu-qa, a ha fri.
NEG 1SG-sleep-IPFV night-LOC and you bright
“I do not sleep at night, and you shine (are bright).”

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12. Vocabulary used in this grammar

12.1 Pronouns & interrogatives

hu – I, 1SG
ha – you (sg), 2SG
shis – we, 1PL
hes – that (distal)
ʃə – what
huʔ – who

12.2 Quantifiers

čul – all, every
nuʔ – many
hirʃuʔ – some, a few

12.3 Nouns

ǰem – person, human
mi – woman
his – child
ŋur – star
haŋ – moon
tsi – water
wə – fire
hem – stone
hiʔ – sand
haʔ – rain
ssu – night
shəmsi – snow
shreə – forest
she – sea, ocean
ssa – island
tsur – north, high north sky
tslel – path, road
tsliʔ – bow
čus – arrow
zu – dog
čuŋiʔ – fish
neʔ – whale
wiʔ – monster, kaiju-beast
tslam – realm, empire
tsluʔ – gate, portal
shehu – gate nomad
sfre – story, tale
sfis – memory
ŋin – mind, spirit

12.4 Adjectives / statives

ʒə – good
hin – dry
vlis – wet
fraŋ – big
tsaʔ – small
ǰlas – old, ancient
hiŋ – new
čeʔ – dark
fri – bright
črəhin – balanced, ordered (cosmic/natural balance)

12.5 Verbs

ǰe – die
nu – sleep, lie down
sə – go, run
piŋ – eat
shəʒi – see
hiʒ – hear
tsri – give
she – speak, say (also ‘sea’ as a noun; mild polysemy tolerated)
hun – strike, hit

12.6 Grammatical & function morphemes

d- – 1SG subject prefix
b- – 2SG subject prefix
l- – 1PL subject prefix
g- – 3SG animate subject prefix
m- – benefactive / applicative prefix
n- – instrumental / causative prefix
w- – comitative / associative prefix
s- – directional prefix ‘towards, into’
-a – perfective suffix
-i – imperfective suffix
ŋ- – possessive connector prefix
-qa – locative postposition ‘at, in, on’
hə – negator ‘not’
a – coordinator ‘and’
zə – coordinator ‘but, however’

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Example text

Elements used:

1 VOCABULARY

1 Pronouns, demonstratives, interrogatives

hu – I (1SG)
ha – you (2SG)
shis – we (1PL)
hes – that (distal “that one/thing”)
ʃə – what
huʔ – who

2 Quantifiers

čul – all, every
hirʃuʔ – some, a few
nuʔ – many

3 Nouns – people, roles

ǰem – person, human
shrus – hunters (collective)
zu – dog
shehu – gate nomad

4 Nouns – beings, cosmos, places

wiʔ – Beast, monstrous being (here: the hunted cosmic Beast; historically Semara’s Beast)
neʔ – whale (Numi whale)
Numi – proper name for whale-people

Sky & time:

ŋur – star
haŋ – moon
tsur – north, high northern sky
ssu – night
ssuhiʃ – midnight

Weather & landscape:

shreə – forest
she – sea, ocean (also ‘to say/speak’ by polysemy)
hiʔun – strait
Wahi – proper name of the Wahi strait/valley region
pujuŋ – deep current, abyssal whirl

Realms & politics:

tslam – land, realm (only mentioned in grammar elsewhere)
tslehmu – empire, dominion
Semara – proper name of the empire/capital

Story & mind:

sfre – story, tale
sfis – memory (deep, ancestral, cosmic)
ŋin – mind, spirit
črəhza – balance, order (cosmic / natural)

Hunt & blood:

tsliʔ – bow
čus – arrow
hliʃin – blood
čuŋiʔ – fish

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5 Adjectives / stative roots

ʒə – good, favorable
hin – dry
vlis – wet
fraŋ – big, great
tsaʔ – small
ǰlas – old, ancient
hiŋ – new
čeʔ – dark
fri – bright
črəhin – balanced, in order (adjectival form from črəhza ‘balance’)

Used in the tale:

čeʔ – dark
fri – bright
vlis – wet
fraŋ – great
ǰlas – old, ancient
hiŋ – new
črəhin – balanced, in order

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6 Verbs

Core verbs:

ǰe – die
nu – sleep, lie
sə – go, move, run
piŋ – eat, devour
shəʒi – see
hiʒ – hear
tsri – give
she – speak, say (also ‘sea’ as a noun; context distinguishes)
frile – sing, chant (ritual song)
hun – strike, hit (esp. with weapon or magic)

Forms used in the text:

she-i – say-IPFV (“they say”)
nu-i / nu-a – sleep-IPFV / sleep-PFV
sə-i / s-sə-i / s-sə-a – go-IPFV / DIR-go-IPFV / DIR-go-PFV
piŋ-i – eat-IPFV
hiʒ-i – hear-IPFV
frile-i – sing-IPFV
n-hun-a – INSTR-strike-PFV (with an instrument like an arrow)

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7 Grammatical morphemes

Subject prefixes:

d- – 1SG subject
b- – 2SG subject
l- – 1PL subject
g- – 3SG animate subject
Ø- – 3rd inanimate subject (zero)

Valence / applicative prefixes:

m- – benefactive (“for, to someone”)
n- – instrumental / causative (“with, by means of”)
w- – comitative (“together with, along with”)

Directional:

s- – directional (“toward, into, upward”)

TAM suffixes:

-a – perfective (completed event, distant past here)
-i – imperfective (ongoing/habitual, narrative “is/was doing”)

Possession & case:

ŋ- – possessive connector (used in other Hashi examples; not needed overtly here)
-qa – locative postposition (“at, in, on”)

Particles and conjunctions:

hə – negator “not” (used as črəhza ǰe-a “balance died” instead of a negated form here)
a – “and”
zə – “but, however”

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Sfre wiʔ tsur-qa – “The Beast in the North”

I. Old Night, Old Story

1
sfre ǰlas she-i ǰem čul-qa.

2
ssu ǰlas-qa čeʔ, haŋ fri, tsur-qa wiʔ nu-i.

3
Numi neʔ she-qa sfis ǰlas nu-i, tsur-qa sfis fraŋ.

4
sfre ǰlas she-i: “hiʔun-qa Wahi wiʔ nu-i.”

1. “This is an old story,” people say everywhere.
2. In an ancient night there was darkness; the moon burned bright, and in the far north the Beast lay at rest.
3. The Numi whales lay in the sea with old memory; in the north their memory was great.
4. The old story said: “In the strait of Wahi the Beast slept.”

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II. Descent into Semara

5
ssuhiʃ ǰlas-qa, hiʔun-qa Wahi wiʔ tsur-qa s-sə-a tslehmu-qa Semara.

6
ssu-qa zu hiʒ-i, wiʔ tslehmu-qa Semara piŋ-i čuŋiʔ čul.

7
hirʃuʔ ǰem ssu-qa nu-i; fraŋ tsliʔ tsliʔ-qa nu-i, čus čul hin.

8
zu tsliʔ-qa hiʒ-i, ǰem čul she-i: “wiʔ piŋ-i čuŋiʔ čul, tsur-qa wiʔ sə-i Semara-qa.”

9
shrus čul tslehmu-qa Semara s-sə-i, zu w-s-sə-i wiʔ-qa.

5. In an old midnight, from the strait of Wahi in the north, the Beast moved down toward the empire of Semara.
6. In the night the dog heard it; in Semara’s realm the Beast devoured all the fish.
7. Some people still slept at night; the great bow lay at its place, and all the arrows lay dry.
8. The dog heard by the bows, and all the people said: “The Beast eats all the fish; from the north the Beast is moving in Semara.”
9. All the hunters moved through the empire of Semara, and the dog ran with them toward the Beast.

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III. Blood of the Beast

10
tsliʔ-qa ǰem n-hun-a wiʔ-qa, hliʃin riʔ hiŋ.

11
hliʃin haʔ-qa vlis, shreə-qa a tsi-qa čul ǰlas-i.

12
Semara tslehmu-qa wiʔ s-sə-a tsur-qa, shrus čul tsur-qa s-sə-a, zu tsur-qa sə-i.

13
haŋ-qa wə hiŋ, riʔ haŋ-qa ǰlas; wiʔ ŋur-qa nu-i.

10. From the bow a hunter struck the Beast with an arrow; its blood became a new wound.
11. The blood fell as wet rain; in the forest and in the water everything began to grow old.
12. From the realm of Semara the Beast climbed, moving up into the north; all the hunters climbed into the north after it, and the dog ran there as well.
13. On the moon there was new fire; the scar on the moon grew old, and the Beast lay sleeping among the stars.

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IV. Numi Memory

14
Numi neʔ she-qa frile-i sfre ǰlas, sfis fraŋ tsur-qa nu-i.

15
“wiʔ Semara tslehmu-qa s-sə-a ssuhiʃ-qa,” she-i, “hliʃin haʔ-qa vlis, črəhza ǰe-a.”

16
hiʔun-qa Wahi sfis ǰlas nu-i, pujuŋ-qa sfis fraŋ; she-i: “hiʔun-qa wiʔ s-sə-a tslehmu-qa Semara.”

14. In the sea the Numi whales sang the old tale, and great memory lay in the north.
15. “The Beast once moved through Semara’s empire at midnight,” they said, “its blood fell like rain, and balance died.”
16. In the strait of Wahi old memory still rests; in the deep current great memory turns. They say: “From the strait the Beast once moved toward the empire of Semara.”

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V. Gate-Keepers’ Hint and the North Sky

17
shehu tslehmu-qa sfre hiŋ she-i: “wiʔ tsur-qa ǰlas nu-i; Semara tslehmu ǰlas ǰe-a sfis-qa.”

18
ssu-qa haŋ fri, ŋur čul tsur-qa nu-i wiʔ-qa; shrus čul tsur-qa ǰlas nu-i, zu tsur-qa ǰlas sə-i.

19
sfre ǰlas sfis-qa nu-i tslehmu-qa; sfre hiŋ sfre-qa nu-i:

20
“hu a ha tsur-qa ŋəʒi-i wiʔ, a sfis ǰlas Semara tslehmu-qa.”

17. In the empire the gate-keepers tell a newer tale: “The Beast has long slept in the north; the empire of Semara long ago died in the memories.”
18. At night the moon shines; all the stars in the north lie around the Beast; all the hunters sleep there as something ancient, and the dog runs there as something ancient too.
19. An old story sleeps in the memories of the realm; and a new story sleeps within the story:
20. “You and I look to the north and see the Beast—and the old memory of the empire of Semara.”

Man in Space wrote: ↑Thu Nov 20, 2025 7:40 am I quite dig this. Like a gnostic tradition for elites/Da Vinci Code-type situation in the empire?

The priests see it as a Nietzschean quest to reach a state of mind beyond good and evil:

On Hyperborea, the descendants remember ʎvanum (Sevrelai: rfana, Southern Cant: vənə) as an original state of perfect knowledge where the world was understood in deeper terms than "good" and "bad". They try to partially recapture this state in their sacrificial ceremonies.

Of course, not everyone would see it this as liberating.

Man in Space wrote: ↑Thu Nov 20, 2025 7:40 am Do the respective goddesses and their associated “virtues”/“vices” in each list correspond to each other? Like a duality type thing?

Yes, the priests teach that terror is wonder that challenges your expectations. Things that kill you increase your wisdom. The shedding of blood renews life. Whether sparing people from punishments is blindness is a matter of subjective opinion. Creativity is what we call drunkenly making stuff up when we like the results. Traveling nomads are outcastes from every land. They have complete systems of associations on this basis, which they use to interpret events in their communities.

Some lines from the Divine Play:

Sévadrai tore the veil of the firmament to show us the storm. When the wind stripped the flesh from our fear, we called it Wonder.

Khélmelai taught that death is the only finality, and that only when a thing has ended can its true name be known as Wisdom.

In the chaos, Róskaï fell — slain by her own reflection, who had learned to bleed in her stead. Her death birthed the rivers anew, and her worship spread across Némorath.

Azravor gouged out her sight lest she judge the wicked. In the shadow of her Blindness, the guilty found sanctuary from the light, and praised her darkness as Sparing.

Lunetyen drank the poison of the moon until the stars spun askew. In staggering delirium, she struck her wine cup against the bells of brass, from whence flowed sweet music.

Ophalrhan was denied the hearth and the gate. She walked the cold of the Outcaste, and those who followed her footprints into the wastes named their exile Travel.

Phong

The Phong are native telepaths. Their primary language is not sound but shared patterns of activation over a labeled directed graph of concepts, emotions, and sensory images.

A single telepathic “sentence” is called a Breath.

Breath: a connected, labeled directed graph with special nodes marking:

who is “speaking” (a SELF-NOW perspective node),
what the Breath is “about” (one or more FOCUS nodes).

Everything that humanoids would call syntax, morphology, mood, tense, aspect, evidentiality is encoded in the shape and labels of this graph.

We’ll write graphs informally as:

nodeName:TYPE[features]
node1 -RELATION-node2

and give a plain-English paraphrase as the “translation”.

---

1. Basic ontology: node types

Every node has a type (a “semantic part of speech”) and optional extra features.

1.1 Node types

1. ENTITY

People, animals, objects, places, clans, empires, rivers, Lyira mouths, hoards, ships, spirits…
Example:
nemorath:ENTITY[domain=meadow]
khélythea:ENTITY[domain=empire]

2. EVENT / FLOW

Happenings in time: storms, journeys, wars, rituals, sacrifices, Lyira crossings, prophecies…
Example:
storm:EVENT
crossing:FLOW

3. STATE

More stable, stative conditions: exile, allegiance, ownership, being under a law, being asleep.
Example:
exiled:STATE
under_brass_law:STATE

4. PATTERN

Abstract structures: recurring configurations that the Phong perceive directly.
Includes:

mythic templates (e.g. Bloom → Brass → Reflections),

social and ecological structures,

prophetic role-patterns like:

P_HOARD – over-accumulating extraction systems.
P_CYCLE – long-period balancing systems.
P_SLEEP – bound destructive potential.
P_MEDIATOR, P_EDGE_FOLK, P_BREAKER, etc.

Example:
hoard_pattern:PATTERN[role=P_HOARD]

5. PERSPECTIVE

“Viewpoint” nodes: who is experiencing / thinking / seeing.
Canonical values:

SELF-NOW, YOU-NOW,
PAST-SELF, FUTURE-SELF,
DREAM-SELF,
GODDESS-TRACE (when a goddess overlay is active).

Example:
seer:PERSPECTIVE[mode=SELF-NOW]
addressee:PERSPECTIVE[mode=YOU-NOW]

In later examples I write s:PERSPECTIVE (and similar) as shorthand for s:PERSPECTIVE.

Each node can also carry:

sensory profile (shape, color, texture),

affective tone (fear, awe, calm, hunger).

---

2. Edge types (relations)

Edges are directed and labeled. Important classes:

2.1. Role edges (argument structure)

AGENT, PATIENT, EXPERIENCER, LOCATION, SOURCE, GOAL, INSTRUMENT, BENEFICIARY.
Example:
storm:EVENT -LOCATION-nemorath:ENTITY

2.2. Flow edges (movement & interaction)

FLOWS_TO, DRAW_IN, RETURN, BIND, STABILISE, STRESS, AWAKEN, GUIDE,
BRANCHES_TO, MERGES_WITH, CROSSES (for Lyira).

2.3. Temporal / causal edges

BEFORE, AFTER, CAUSES, ENABLES, PREVENTS, CONDITIONAL_ON.

2.4. Cognitive edges

BELIEVES, REMEMBERS, IMAGINES, DREAMS_AS.

2.5. Mythic / religious edges

IS_MASK_OF (public vs secret form), RESONATES_WITH, IS_RETINUE_OF, DOMAINS.

2.6. Evidential edges

SEEN, HEARD, FELT, DREAMT, TOLD, INFERRED.

These lists are illustrative rather than exhaustive; additional edge labels (e.g. FOLLOWS, ALIGNS_WITH, TARGETS, NEGATES, QUERY, etc.) can be coined as needed, but each belongs to one of the families above.

Each edge also has:

weight – strength / intensity / confidence,

phase – timing / synchrony, functioning like prosody.

---

3. What counts as a well-formed Breath

3.1 Breath conditions

A graph G is a grammatical Breath iff:

3.1.1. Connectivity

G (ignoring edge direction) is connected.

3.1.2. Unique SELF-NOW

Exactly one node s with type PERSPECTIVE and mode denotes SELF-NOW.

3.1.3. Focus

At least one node is marked as FOCUS, either:

by a feature focus=TRUE, or

via an edge s -FOCUSES_ON-f.

3.1.4. Reachability

Every node in the graph is reachable (ignoring edge direction) from some FOCUS node via a path of contentful edges: role, flow, temporal/causal, cognitive, mythic, focus, or evidential edges.

3.1.5. No totally “dangling” events

Every EVENT/FLOW node has at least one core role edge (e.g. AGENT, PATIENT, LOCATION) unless it is explicitly marked as a query event.

Intuition: a Breath is “something coherent that I am thinking about this; everything else is there because it’s relevant to that focus.”

---

4. Clause types as subgraph schemas

Phong has no word order in the telepathic channel. Instead it has subgraph schemas that play the role of clause types.

4.1 Event clause (simple sentence)

Schema

Nodes:

s:PERSPECTIVE[SELF-NOW],
e:EVENT,
any number of ENTITY / STATE nodes.

Key edges:

s -FOCUSES_ON-e

role edges from e to its participants (AGENT, PATIENT, LOCATION, etc.)

optionally evidential edges from s to e (SEEN, HEARD, etc.)

Example 1 – simple event

“I see a storm over Némorath.”

Graph:

Nodes
s:PERSPECTIVE[SELF-NOW]
storm:EVENT
nemorath:ENTITY[domain=meadow]

Edges
s -FOCUSES_ON-storm
storm -LOCATION-nemorath
s -SEEN[weight=0.9]-storm

This is a canonical Breath: connected, unique SELF-NOW, clear FOCUS (storm), everything reachable.

---

4.2 State clause

Used for “X is in state Y”.

Schema

Nodes: s, x:ENTITY, σ:STATE.
Edges:

s -FOCUSES_ON-σ
σ -HOLDS_OF-x.

Example 2 – state

“The Narshalye are exiled to the Boreal Wastes.”

Graph:

Nodes
s:PERSPECTIVE[SELF-NOW]
narshalye:ENTITY[domain=clan]
lekhnú:ENTITY[domain=region]
exiled:STATE

Edges
s -FOCUSES_ON-exiled
exiled -HOLDS_OF-narshalye
exiled -LOCATION-lekhnú
s -TOLD[weight=0.8]-exiled (evidential: known from story)

---

4.3 Flow / narrative clause

Describes chains of events and their relations.

Schema

A chain or network of EVENT/FLOW nodes linked by CAUSES, FOLLOWS, BRANCHES_TO, MERGES_WITH, often dominated by a PATTERN node.

Example 3 – causal chain

“Sacrifice in Némorath brings a storm, which floods the meadow.”

Graph (simplified):

Nodes
s:PERSPECTIVE[SELF-NOW]
sacrifice:EVENT
storm:EVENT
flood:EVENT
nemorath:ENTITY[meadow]

Edges
s -FOCUSES_ON-sacrifice
sacrifice -LOCATION-nemorath
sacrifice -CAUSES-storm
storm -CAUSES-flood
flood -LOCATION-nemorath
s -SEEN-sacrifice
s -INFERRED-flood

The sequence sacrifice → storm → flood is the clausal backbone.

---

4.4 Pattern-dominated clause

Here a PATTERN node is the FOCUS, and concrete events are instances of it.

Example 4 – pattern

“This empire hoards like a Beast.”

Graph:

Nodes
s:PERSPECTIVE[SELF-NOW]
empire:ENTITY[domain=political]
hoard_pattern:PATTERN[role=P_HOARD]

Edges
s -FOCUSES_ON-hoard_pattern
hoard_pattern -HOLDS_OF-empire
hoard_pattern -IS_MASK_OF-beast_image:ENTITY[mythic_beast]

The FOCUS is the pattern, not the literal beast.

---

4.5 Metaphor / masking clause

Metaphor is done by shared nodes or IS_MASK_OF edges between two subgraphs.

Example 5 – metaphor

“The Ark’s fall is a mask for the descent of the six Voices.”

Graph (sketch):

Subgraph A: ark_fall:EVENT with its own structure.
Subgraph B: voices_descent:EVENT with its own structure.
Edge: ark_fall -IS_MASK_OF-voices_descent.
s -FOCUSES_ON-ark_fall.

Understanding the Breath requires mapping structure from A to B.

---

5. Grammatical categories encoded in the graph

5.1 Participants and “subjecthood”

Phong has no grammatical subject in the telepathic channel. Instead, subject-like roles are nodes with AGENT or EXPERIENCER edges, central position in the event’s local graph.

When Phong linearize a Breath into a spoken language (Sevrelai, Nyphonic, etc.), they usually turn:

the most central participant (by role + connectivity) into the spoken subject.

5.2 Time (tense) and aspect

Tense is encoded as distance and direction along BEFORE/AFTER edges from a “now” time-anchor associated with SELF-NOW.

In full graphs there is usually an explicit STATE node now_anchor that is linked to the SELF-NOW perspective (omitted for readability).

Near past: short BEFORE paths.
Remote past: long BEFORE paths with intermediate events.
Future: AFTER paths leading outward from that SELF-NOW anchor into hypothetical events.

Aspect is local structure around an event:

Perfective: event in a small, acyclic neighborhood (no loops).

Imperfective: event participates in a cycle with a STATE (MAINTAINS, OVERLAPS).

Habitual: event is linked to a PATTERN node representing a routine and multiple time anchors.

Example 6 – future habitual

“We will keep crossing the Lyira here every winter.”

Graph (sketch):

Nodes
s:PERSPECTIVE[SELF-NOW]
lyira_cross:EVENT
cross_pattern:PATTERN[role=P_CYCLE]
winter_cycle:PATTERN
here:ENTITY[place]
we:ENTITY[group=clan]

Edges
s -FOCUSES_ON-cross_pattern
cross_pattern -HOLDS_OF-lyira_cross (habitual)
lyira_cross -AGENT-we
lyira_cross -LOCATION-here
lyira_cross -AFTER-now_future_anchor:STATE
lyira_cross -ALIGNS_WITH-winter_cycle

The pattern node plus repeated time anchors mark the habitual aspect.

---

5.3 Modality & mood

Mood and modality are encoded by special nodes dominating the event subgraph:

DESIRE / OBLIGATION / PERMISSION / POSSIBLE etc.

Example 7 – desire / hortative

“Let the edge-folk cross and loosen the hoard.”

Graph:

Nodes
s:PERSPECTIVE[SELF-NOW]
edge_folk:ENTITY[role=P_EDGE_FOLK]
hoard:ENTITY[role=P_HOARD]
cross:EVENT
loosen:EVENT
desire:STATE[modal=DESIRE]

Edges
s -FOCUSES_ON-desire
desire -TARGETS-cross
desire -TARGETS-loosen
cross -AGENT-edge_folk
cross -GOAL-hoard
loosen -AGENT-edge_folk
loosen -PATIENT-hoard

In linear speech, this maps to something imperative/hortative.

---

5.4 Polarity (negation)

Negation is handled by polarity nodes:

neg:STATE[polarity=NEG] dominating the negated subgraph via NEGATES.

Example 8 – negation

“The meadow did not flood.”

Graph:

Nodes
as in Example 3 plus neg:STATE[NEG].

Edges
neg -NEGATES-flood
s -FOCUSES_ON-neg

---

5.5 Evidentiality

Evidential status is encoded per link between SELF-NOW and events/states:

SEEN, HEARD, DREAMT, TOLD, INFERRED, with weights.

Two Breaths can differ only in these edges but describe the same events; the difference is “how I know this.”

---

6. Questions, answers, commands

6.1 WH-questions

Questions are graphs with unknown nodes or edges, marked as queries.

Unknown nodes have types but no identity: e.g. x:ENTITY[query=TRUE].
SELF-NOW connects to them via a QUERY relation.

Example 9 – WH-question

“Who broke the hoard’s bindings?”

Graph:

Nodes
s:PERSPECTIVE[SELF-NOW]
hoard:ENTITY[role=P_HOARD]
break:EVENT
x:ENTITY[query=TRUE]

Edges
s -FOCUSES_ON-break
break -PATIENT-hoard
break -AGENT-x
s -QUERY-x

An answer is a new Breath that merges some specific entity node with x.

---

6.2 Yes/No questions

Represented as two alternative subgraphs differing in some detail, with a QUERY over the contrast.

Think of: “Is the storm natural, or called by sacrifice?” as two candidate Breaths sharing most nodes, differing only in one causal edge.

Resolution discards one branch.

---

6.3 Commands / imperatives

Imperatives shift perspective: the addressee becomes the “active” PERSPECTIVE in the event subgraph, under a DESIRE/OBLIGATION pattern.

Example 10 – imperative

“Cross the Lyira now.”

Graph:

Nodes
s:PERSPECTIVE[SELF-NOW]
you:PERSPECTIVE[mode=YOU-NOW]
cross:EVENT
lyira:ENTITY
obligation:STATE[modal=OBLIGATION]

Edges
s -FOCUSES_ON-obligation
obligation -TARGETS-cross
cross -AGENT-you
cross -GOAL-lyira

---

7. Discourse: anaphora, embedding, reported thought

7.1 Anaphora & identity

“Pronouns” and reference tracking are done by node reuse and identity edges:

A subsequent Breath that reuses the node hoard is “about the same hoard.”
When there’s genuine ambiguity, nodes can be connected by POSSIBLY_SAME_AS until the discourse resolves them.

7.2 Embedding (reported speech and thought)

To represent someone else’s Breath, Phong simply embeds their graph as a subgraph and links it with BELIEVES, SAYS, or DREAMS_AS.

Example 11 – reported thought

“The Hyperborean thinks the goddess is angry.”

Graph (simplified):

Nodes
s:PERSPECTIVE[SELF-NOW]
hyperborean:ENTITY
belief:STATE
goddess:ENTITY
anger:STATE

Edges
s -FOCUSES_ON-belief
belief -HOLDS_OF-hyperborean
belief -CONTENT-subgraph_B
subgraph_B = mini-Breath: anger -HOLDS_OF-goddess

The embedded mini-Breath is structurally just another Breath, but it’s only active inside the scope of BELIEF.

---

8. Prophetic register (structural prophecies)

For everyday communication, the graphs are local to a single interaction.

For prophecy, the Phong use the same grammar over a much larger world-graph, which encodes:

geography, Lyira networks, flows,
empires, clans, cults and their debts,
mythic cycles and goddess overlays,
role-patterns like P_HOARD, P_CYCLE, P_SLEEP, etc.

8.1 Role-patterns

Key prophetic PATTERN roles:

P_HOARD: extracting more than it returns; nets, taxation systems, mining regimes, monopolies.
P_CYCLE: seasonal or long-term balancing systems: flood–drought, migration, resource cycles.
P_SLEEP: bound destructive potential: buried weapons, unstable laws, dormant gods, forgotten curses.
P_MEDIATOR: in-between structures that channel flows between hoards and cycles.
P_EDGE_FOLK: populations living on boundaries, with access to multiple systems.
P_BREAKER: patterns that concentrate disruption and “cracking”.

A prophetic question is a Breath whose FOCUS is one or more PATTERN nodes and domain-level roles (“some hoard in this region”, “some sleeper bound to these flows”), not specific individuals.

8.2 Structural prophecy as grammar + algorithms

The prophetic Breath is still a normal Breath:

one SELF-NOW,
one or more FOCUS nodes (usually patterns),
everything connected.

The difference is nodes belong to the shared world-graph,
and the Phong apply graph-search and graph-rewriting intuitions to it.

Example 12 – generic prophecy

“A hoard that draws too much and returns too little
will swell beyond its bounds;
cycles around it will strain;
and wherever a sleeper binds hoard and cycle together,
that binding will crack in the end.”

In Phong terms:

FOCUS: hoard_pattern:PATTERN[role=P_HOARD] (with an implicit s:PERSPECTIVE node and edge s -FOCUSES_ON-hoard_pattern that is omitted)

Linked to:
many DRAW_IN edges, few RETURN edges,
cycle_pattern:PATTERN[role=P_CYCLE] connected by STRESS,
sleeper_pattern:PATTERN[role=P_SLEEP] with BIND edges to both.

The clause “in the end” corresponds to the fact that, in the world-graph, any long path that preserves these relations passes through a “crack” configuration labeled P_BREAKER.

No specific empire, clan, or individual is named. When, centuries later, a particular empire and sleeper match this pattern, the Phong recognize the structure as the one already encoded in this Breath.

---

Prophecy:

In both everyday and prophetic registers, a Breath is a connected, labeled directed graph with:

one SELF-NOW PERSPECTIVE node,
at least one FOCUS,
all nodes reachable (ignoring edge direction) from at least one FOCUS node (via role, flow, temporal/causal, cognitive, mythic, focus, or evidential edges).

Nodes are ENTITY, EVENT/FLOW, STATE, PATTERN, PERSPECTIVE.
Edges encode roles, flows, time, causation, cognition, myth, and evidentiality.
Traditional categories (subject, tense, aspect, mood, polarity, questions, commands, metaphor, anaphora, embedding) are all implemented as graph shapes and labels, not word order.
The prophetic register is the same grammar applied to a large shared world-graph rich in pattern roles like P_HOARD, P_CYCLE, P_SLEEP. Prophecies are structural Breaths about these patterns, not about specific agents.

1. Phong symbolic map of the whole situation

This is the Phong’s long-range, structural world-model, without any proper names. Everything is roles and patterns.

1.1 Role inventory (patterns, not people)

P_HOARD
Concentrated dominion that draws more than it returns.
(Empire, gate monopoly, centralizing power.)

P_CYCLE
Large-scale balancing cycles.
(Seasons, ocean–sky exchanges, migratory flows.)

P_BALANCER
Deep, long-lived keepers of memory who stabilize cycles.
(The Numi whales, but as a role.)

P_GATE_FLOW
Flows through the world’s doors between regions / skies.
(Lyira gates, but abstracted.)

P_SLEEP
Bound destructive potential sleeping in a basin or hollow.
(The kaiju under Wahi.)

P_MEDIATOR
Wanderers who move between patterns and can nudge them.
(The Phong themselves.)

P_EDGE_FOLK
Populations who live at boundaries and can move through doors.
(Gate nomads, shore-walkers, valley-folk, diaspora — all rolled into this.)

P_ALLIANCE
A temporary binding between multiple edge-folk clusters.
(Ailani + Lubokahe alliance.)

P_BREAKER
The pattern in which a hoard’s bindings crack and its dominion collapses.

1.2 Symbolic world-graph

Nodes (all PATTERN or ENTITY nodes playing meta-roles — “meta-entities”):

H: PATTERN[role=P_HOARD] central hoard / empire
C: PATTERN[role=P_CYCLE] world cycles (seasons, long flows)
B: PATTERN[role=P_BALANCER] deep memory-balancers in the sea
Gf: PATTERN[role=P_GATE_FLOW] door-flows
S: PATTERN[role=P_SLEEP] sleeper in the basin
M: PATTERN[role=P_MEDIATOR] Phong
E: PATTERN[role=P_EDGE_FOLK] edge-folk / door-wanderers
A: PATTERN[role=P_ALLIANCE] temporary edge-folk alliance
K: PATTERN[role=P_BREAKER] cracking of bindings (collapse)

Edges (relations):

Hoard’s extraction and imbalance
Gf -DRAW_IN-H doors feed the hoard with distant flows
E -DRAW_IN-H edge-folk tribute / service flows inward
H -RETURN-C (weak) hoard gives little back to the cycles
H -STRESS-C strain on cycles

Cycles and deep balancers
B -STABILISE-C deep balancers maintain seasonal / natural balance
Gf -COUPLES-C door flows tangle with cycles

Sleeper’s binding
S -BIND-H sleeper’s fate bound to hoard
S -BIND-C sleeper bound into disturbed cycles

Mediators’ intentions
M -FORESEE-{H, C, S, B, E, Gf} prophetic awareness of pattern
M -GUIDE-B petition / influence deep balancers
M -GUIDE-A bring edge-folk into alliance

Alliance and confrontation
E -COALESCE_INTO-A edge-folk alliance pattern
A -STRESS-H alliance pushes back on hoard
B -AWAKEN-S deep balancers help rouse sleeper
S -BREAKS-H via K sleeper’s action cracks hoard bindings

Aftermath
H -FALLS_IN-K hoard collapses into breaker pattern
E -CROSSES-Gf edge-folk pass through doors and scatter
Gf -SCATTERS-E diaspora through many worlds

This is what the Phong “see” in symbolic form: no names, only structure. They know, in outline:

a hoard that overuses door flows and stresses the cycles,
deep balancers who can awaken a sleeper bound to hoard and cycles,
mediators (them) who can nudge balancers and edge-folk into an alliance,
a crack pattern in which hoard and sleeper cancel, and edge-folk flee outward.

They don’t know which hoard, which basin, which edge-folk, or which destination world.
They only know: when they see these roles line up, this is that pattern.

---

2. Prophecy in humanoid speech

1.
When the crown at the center
drinks every road and gives back no rain,
the long seasons will warp.

2.
In the far deeps, those who remember
will feel their balances slip.
They will stir the chained weight
buried in a dry throat of stone.

3.
The sleeper will rise with the taste of ages
and lean its hunger toward the crown.
Where its shadow passes, bonds will crack,
and the halls that gathered all things
will echo with fleeing feet.

4.
Those who live on the edges of all maps
will braid themselves for a little while,
then unbraid through the high doors,
scattering like sparks into other skies.

5.
The deep will be hunted and scarred,
the crown will lie broken among its own shards,
and the doors will forget the names of those who built them.

6.
Not by mercy in the center,
but by long memory in the deeps
and by wanderers who are ready to leave
when the weight becomes too great.

BTW, I have R scripts that automatically linearize Phong graphs into a few utterance formats.

Interesting!

It must be a very interesting experience to converse with the Phong.

Thank you for the interest.

Civil War Bugle wrote: ↑Fri Nov 28, 2025 3:17 pm It must be a very interesting experience to converse with the Phong.

Talking to a Phong is a surreal experience. It has been described as being like talking to a toddler or a gibbering idiot. This is followed by surprise as their play-acting/delusions often, but not always, come true.

A gaggle of Phong is always crowdsourcing a shared symbolic map. Not only do individuals perceive additional structure in the world, they synthesize data from a wide range of sources.

Certain substances boost these abilities. They have also evolved with the ability to construct more complex symbolic maps when they are in danger, such as being in pain.

Despite this, they are fallible mortals who use heuristics to survive like the humanoids, and are liable to draw false conclusions now and then.

PS. Then again, sometimes the Phong genuinely like pretend play. They are not always serious.

Sorry for my delay in getting back to you. Other stuff going on. And for some reason - the UI of the site? - it's hard to follow long posts. I don't mind long posts, it just takes me a bit.

Lubokahe:

Poetry rhymes along the middles of words.

Cool.

It's interesting how the infixing dominates the grammar of the sentence - it's like a sequence of morphemes without other structure than sequence.

Would one say The Lament by saying sentence 1, then 2, ...? not infixing anymore at that level. Seems like you have to, for the rhyme.

Both versions I have of the Lubokahe grammar are super duper infixing. I wanted the language to be something beyond the reach of humanity. Sadly, I had only one idea at the time. I'm open to suggestions.

Aren't there other posts with suggestions for nonhuman languages? I haven't gone looking, and I'm not sure of the etiquette issues around using ideas posted by others. Or do you want something we couldn't manage, not just something unlike human languages?

The infixing works out well. And the braids and layers are interesting and unfamiliar to me - though I don't know if that's actually out there in a natlang.

ʃir:

I think I understand having a flagship conlang; somehow it was the others that caught my eye. I haven't read all of what you've posted.

I'd be curious to see more done with them - especially to make them seem like something really different from 'up/'down'/'around'/etc. Maybe I'd just like to see sentences to describe more motions in space, from one not-planet-point to another.

Is this what you're looking for?

I guess? They don't seem that different from just 'up' and 'down' and so on, but maybe that's inevitable.

How would you talk about using a piece of an ellipse to get from one circular orbit to another, or from one planet to another? I'm looking at (the pictures in) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohmann_transfer_orbit , and also for some other orbits, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_assist .

Although perhaps I am pushing you in a conlanging direction that's not interesting to you, in which case I'm sorry. It's perfectly fine to not elaborate any of this!

My intention when writing the grammar was that X θan Y means "clause X is the direct sensory evidence proving that clause Y". However, when I was writing example sentences, the conjunctions ended up being used in many different ways, especially for questions.

Ah, that makes sense, and it seems very reasonable.

Phong:

BTW, I have R scripts that automatically linearize Phong graphs into a few utterance formats.

That's great : )

Despite this, they are fallible mortals who use heuristics to survive like the humanoids,

I appreciate that. Much better than the alternative.

This old comparative vocabulary of the languages needs a lot of work: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Axas mlö wrote: ↑Sun Nov 30, 2025 11:31 pm Sorry for my delay in getting back to you. Other stuff going on. And for some reason - the UI of the site? - it's hard to follow long posts. I don't mind long posts, it just takes me a bit.

Thanks for the interest.

Axas mlö wrote: ↑Sun Nov 30, 2025 11:31 pm Would one say The Lament by saying sentence 1, then 2, ...? not infixing anymore at that level. Seems like you have to, for the rhyme.

Yes. Otherwise utterances wouldn't terminate and you wouldn't have the second half of the root to determine its meaning.

Axas mlö wrote: ↑Sun Nov 30, 2025 11:31 pm The infixing works out well. And the braids and layers are interesting and unfamiliar to me - though I don't know if that's actually out there in a natlang.

Thanks. I used them because I assumed they're inhuman. For the Lubokahe, infixing is how their brains work. They don't put much extra thought into it.

Axas mlö wrote: ↑Sun Nov 30, 2025 11:31 pm I guess? They don't seem that different from just 'up' and 'down' and so on, but maybe that's inevitable.

Well, I don't know if the "spiraling around" direction is attested elsewhere.

Axas mlö wrote: ↑Sun Nov 30, 2025 11:31 pm How would you talk about using a piece of an ellipse to get from one circular orbit to another, or from one planet to another? I'm looking at (the pictures in) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohmann_transfer_orbit , and also for some other orbits, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_assist .

Although perhaps I am pushing you in a conlanging direction that's not interesting to you, in which case I'm sorry. It's perfectly fine to not elaborate any of this!

I do appreciate it. Unfortunately, I've been sick recently. I will think about it more and get back to you. Currently, I'd use numbered orbits using the prefixed numerals and talk about orbit-pieces connecting them. Something like: Pʼuls isken prak ʃl prakan pirenstʼeʔ θral θralimit truθralim liɲθralim vralun. "If propulsion begins in the ship, then the ship will go in an orbital path along the orbit-piece between the first and second orbits of the station."

Maybe I need more grammatical categories distinguishing between, e.g., circular and elliptical orbits. I'm interested if you have ideas. I'm sure I'll think of something when working on the lore. I do want to explore the proto-world more. The inhabitants of the proto-world were generally enlightened and scientifically rigorous. They had their own troubles. The launching of the ark ships wasn't undertaken amidst universal celebration. What tickles my fancy is that the descendants know more than their forebears in some ways. The inhabitants of ʎvanum didn't have allies with a direct perception of world structures and had much cruder knowledge of such things. Neither did they know of polar distortions that translate and rotate objects along higher dimensions. Nevertheless, the descendants have regressed from enlightenment and are trying to find their way back to a state of lost grace. Having thought about it, I'm drawn to this world because I feel like it offers possibilities for exploring our times, the state of universal nostalgia we're living under in the 21st century. People who identify as Western are nostalgic for the enlightenment, Muslims are nostalgic for the Islamic Golden Age, liberals are nostalgic for their 20th century welfare states, Marxists are nostalgic for the Soviet Union, etc. We don't see the immensely greater possibilities lying ahead of us.

rotting bones wrote: ↑Sun Dec 14, 2025 8:00 pm Well, I don't know if the "spiraling around" direction is attested elsewhere.

Yes, that's is good. I'm wondering, can you use it not just for spaceships and such, but for small things, like a ball, or a cat?

I do appreciate it. Unfortunately, I've been sick recently. I will think about it more and get back to you.

Get well soon! No rush. As you can see I take a while myself....

Currently, I'd use numbered orbits using the prefixed numerals and talk about orbit-pieces connecting them. Something like: Pʼuls isken prak ʃl prakan pirenstʼeʔ θral θralimit truθralim liɲθralim vralun. "If propulsion begins in the ship, then the ship will go in an orbital path along the orbit-piece between the first and second orbits of the station."'

Understood.

Is it clear to speakers of the language whether first and second orbits are, say, inner and outer?

Maybe I need more grammatical categories distinguishing between, e.g., circular and elliptical orbits. I'm interested if you have ideas.

I like that. From the limited amount I know there's so much stuff, and I think a lot of it could be fun to name. The sidebar in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohmann_transfer_orbit , "Part of a series on Astrodynamics", has a list of 2-body orbits, and many other links I haven't looked at.

Or you could separate states of the ship: "stable" orbits for some definition - won't crash, I guess; good/intentional freefall; bad freefall; attached to station or another ship or something; attached to planet, i.e., on the ground; accelerating on own power (maybe briefly vs long burn). Not sure where spiral fits here.

from the other thread:

Again I'm asking if anyone has advice making the languages in my Hyperborea conworld more exciting. Thanks.

Probably all my suggestions are going to be about SPAAACE.... How do ʃir speakers classify planet-like objects? They don't have to agree with the IAU. And there could be different words for orbits around a planet or a star; and different words for the pericenter and apocenter. There are layers of interest around a planet, like radiation belts, that could need names.

What are their economic arrangements for space travel? What needs a name there?

Can they use different metaphors? weird ones, from our perspective? orbits as metaphors for daily life, and vice versa. Have you read Terra Ignota? I'm thinking of the way the Utopians speak.

@rotting bones: I just finished re-reading your Hyperborea thread, and had a few semi-random comments and questions. (I read the thread as it was originally posted, and I suspect that I had some better-thought-out comments and questions at the time, but I unfortunately cannot recall for sure.)

- I found your conlangs interesting, although I feel ill-equipped to comment on them in detail. Like Axas miö, I found the directional system in ʃir intriguing, although my attention was caught by another feature: the converb system. I have a forever-embryonic conlang that is also intended to make use of converbs, but I had not considered the possibility of having different forms for same-subject and different-subject converbs. I may want to borrow this feature, if you don’t mind.

- The Phong language is also quite interesting, as a depiction of a distinctly non-human language (although it does seem possible, at least with the examples provided, to translate it into human terms).

- You mention that the current human inhabitants no longer have the technology to build the ark ships their ancestors arrived on, although they have access to the transworld portals of the lyïră and the non-humans’ insights into the world. What are the material technologies of the “present-day” human cultures like?

- Your description of Phong families associating themselves with humanoid communities reminded me of something I read many years ago about communities of African hunter-gathers (a.k.a. pygmies) that tend to be associated with communities of the larger agricultural peoples nearby, although given the Phong’s nature and motivations, the relationship may be quite different (relations in the latter case appear to range from trading commodities to a slave vs. master relationship).

- Early in the thread, you describe how the Phong serve as priests to the human cultures, and specifically those Phong who are raised to be sacrificed and eaten. Do the Phong priests take part in the meal as well? How do the Phong in general feel about this custom, e.g., are there Phong not associated with human communities who would object? Are there Phong who take on other (i.e., non-religious) roles in human communities?

Thanks for the interest and the interesting questions, everyone.

Glenn wrote: ↑Sat Jan 24, 2026 6:50 pm - You mention that the current human inhabitants no longer have the technology to build the ark ships their ancestors arrived on, although they have access to the transworld portals of the lyïră and the non-humans’ insights into the world. What are the material technologies of the “present-day” human cultures like?

Extremely uneven. Similar to alternate universe pre-Fordist cyberpunk. There are elites in the cities with more tech than earth in 2026 and probably more than in 2100, there are hunter gatherers in the north, and everything in between. The average person in a city is similar to an average 21st century slum dweller. You might work in a factory, but remain unable to buy the items you produce.

Glenn wrote: ↑Sat Jan 24, 2026 6:50 pm - Your description of Phong families associating themselves with humanoid communities reminded me of something I read many years ago about communities of African hunter-gathers (a.k.a. pygmies) that tend to be associated with communities of the larger agricultural peoples nearby, although given the Phong’s nature and motivations, the relationship may be quite different (relations in the latter case appear to range from trading commodities to a slave vs. master relationship).

- Early in the thread, you describe how the Phong serve as priests to the human cultures, and specifically those Phong who are raised to be sacrificed and eaten. Do the Phong priests take part in the meal as well?

Yes. The Phong predicted a calamity a long time ago regardless of whether humanoids were present. Some of them decided having an alliance with the humanoids would be better than not when that happens. This didn't work out so well for some of them.

Glenn wrote: ↑Sat Jan 24, 2026 6:50 pm How do the Phong in general feel about this custom, e.g., are there Phong not associated with human communities who would object? Are there Phong who take on other (i.e., non-religious) roles in human communities?

The Phong do other jobs as well. Most of these jobs are within their own communities. Most of the time, if members of the species are hanging around outside the context of a religious ritual, some might assume they are protesters, criminals, beggars or outlaws of some other sort.

The biggest exceptions are being fishermen and fishmongers, jobs that are done by both species in both communities. Phong are better fishermen than humans. Phong jobs that most people don't get to see often are on board ships. Captains hire Phong as crew because staying underwater for 10 minutes is routine for them. They help guide ships around rocky waters. They are bad at using tools, but they can be handy for making emergency repairs. Some elites have personal psychics, but those are often treated like pampered slaves.

I'm working on the proto-world lore. I think I might have to redo my Proto-Galactic language at some point.

Notes on Ancient Galactic

ظېٰوېٖ ضۆں ڵېٖماٖ پاٖ طۆٰپاٖ۔

ǁé-wè

live-VIS.PRS

ǃõ

1PL.INCL

ɬèmà

earth

pà

and

ǂópà.

shadow

We are earth and shadow.

Ancient Galactic (ǃàlĩ) is mutually unintelligible with Classical Galactic and Standard Galactic. ǃàlĩ (or para-ǃàlĩ) is ancestral to both ʃir and Classical Galactic. It was spoken in ǃàlĩgàrì. Folk tradition says ǃàlĩgàrì was a mountainous river-valley region. In historical times, it is unknown where that was situated. ǃàlĩ is spoken as a literary language by galactic elites. They take pride in mastering the difficulty of the language.

This is my equivalent of a kitchen sink conlang, sadly.

I. Phonology

Twenty-eight click phonemes span four places of articulation: dental (ǀ), alveolar (ǃ), palatal (ǂ), lateral (ǁ), each with seven accompaniment types. Thirty-four pulmonic consonants include a full ejective series, a voiceless lateral fricative /ɬ/, and a uvular series. Clicks appear only syllable-initially. Ten vowel qualities (five oral, five nasalized) combine with four contrastive tones: high (á), mid (a), low (à), falling (â). Four tones. (C)V(N) syllables.

The writing system is a reused abjad, here represented with Perso-Arabic script owing to lack of imagination.

II. Nouns

At least 10 noun classes:

1. bà- masc
bàǃòm “man”

2. dì- fem
dìnã́ “mother”

3. ŋù- animal
ŋùnǀĩ “fish”

4. mõ- plant
mõkʰũ “wine”

5. nà- liquid
nàšòm “river”

6. k’á- tool
k’átsã “lamp”

7. sè- abstract
sèǃà “song”

8. tà- place
tàɬèkʰũ “terrace”

9. ɬè- mineral
ɬèpà “stone”

10. tsã- fire
tsãǂó “sun”

Ten case suffixes. Cases stack in embedded clauses. Split-Ergative alignment.

Over fifty numeral classifiers, such as -ǃòm "human", -šòm "flowing" and -hõ̀ "abstract".

III. Verbs

Past tense is marked by the particle ní and tonal ablaut. Future uses kè and carries no evidential.

Evidentials are obligatory for Past / Present:

1. Visual -wì / -wè
speaker saw the event

2. Non-visual -tí / -tã
speaker heard, felt, or smelled it

3. Inferential -hìyì / -hĩyè
speaker infers from evidence

4. Reported -yìgî / (null)
speaker was told (past only)

5. Assumed -hĩ̀ / -hõ̀
speaker assumes from logic

IV. Syntax and other notes

VSO word order.

Ergativity is both morphological and syntactic: an antipassive voice -ǂã demotes the object, enabling the agent to serve as the pivot. Serial verb constructions chain bare roots with only the final verb carrying the evidential: ní ǂù kũ̀ lĩ̀-wì kú “they sat, ate, spoke”.

Eight pronouns paralleling word classes.

The avoidance register ǂòmhũ̀ (“far-speech”) replaces all open-class vocabulary in the presence of taboo kin, systematically purging clicks, ejectives, and high tones.

No distinction between statements and questions.

What I'm trying to say is that humans would be fucked if the real standard galactic language turned out to be anything like ǃàlĩ:

پھېٰتاںضاٖ څاںطۆٰ صآںگاں۔

pʰétã-ǃà

bloom-IMP

tsãǂó

sun

ǀã́-gã.

this-INSTR

Bloom with this sun.

Compare Tuyuca and Chalcatongo Mixtec.

V. Text

ظېٰوېٖ تاٖگظې نطاٖںگظېنېں ناٖشۆٖمڵوٖ، ڵېٖنضآڵوٖ۔

ǁé-wè

live-VIS.PRS

tàgǁe

house

Nǂã̀gǁe-nẽ

Nǂã̀gǁe-GEN

nàšòm-ɬù,

river-LOC.NEAR

ɬènǃá-ɬù.

mountain-LOC.NEAR

The house of Nǂã̀gǁe stands near the river, near the mountain.

نیٰ گظېٖویٖ دیٖشوٰ تاٖڵېٖکھوں ناٖکھوںڅاٖ۔

ní

PST

gǁè-wì

build-VIS.PST

dì-šú

3SG.F-ERG

tàɬèkʰũ

terrace

nàkʰũ-tsà.

water-LOC.ON

She built a terrace over the water.

کھوںلیںتاں ناٖکھوں تاٖگظېکٔیٖ - لیں راںشۆٖم۔

kʰũlĩ-tã

murmur-NVIS.PRS

nàkʰũ

water

tàgǁe-k'ì

house-LOC.IN

lĩ

voice

rã-šòm.

two-CLF.FLOWING

The water murmurs inside the house - two voices.

کوٰں ضاٖوېٖ سېٖہۆٖںظیں تاٖگظېکٔیٖ۔

kṹ

NEG

ǃà-wè

good-VIS.PRS

sèhõ̀ǁĩ

silence

tàgǁe-k'ì.

house-LOC.IN

Silence is not good inside a house.

نیٰ نطاویٖ نطاٖگاٖریٖ ظآںراںضۆٖم سېٖنطاٖںہیںکٔیٖ۔

ní

PST

nǂa-wì

come-VIS.PST

nǂà-gàrì

guest

ǁã́rã-ǃòm

hand.two-CLF.HUMAN

sènǂã̀hĩ-k'ì.

dusk-LOC.IN

Seven guests arrived at dusk.

نیٰ ظېویٖ کٔآڅاں طۆٰن تاٖڵېٖکھوںڅاٖ - ناٖڅاںرېٖ ڵېٖنضآنېں، څاںرېٖ صھیٰںشېں۔

ní

PST

ǁe-wì

burn-VIS.PST

k'átsã

lamp

ǂón

many

tàɬèkʰũ-tsà

terrace-LOC.ON

nàtsãrè

oil

ɬènǃá-nẽ,

mountain-GEN

tsãrè

fire

ǀʰĩ́šẽ.

calm

Many lamps burned on the terrace - mountain oil, a calm fire.

نیٰ تٔاٖویٖ ظآں دیٖنېں دیٖشوٰ - سېٖتٔا صآں نطاٖں: کوٰں پوٖںوېٖ ریٰ کٔاٖخۆٖں۔ پوٖںوېٖ ریٰ ریٰ۔

ní

PST

t'à-wì

raise-VIS.PST

ǁã́

hand

dì-nẽ

3SG.F-GEN

dì-šú

3SG.F-ERG

sèt'a

gesture

ǀã́

this

nǂã̀:

old

kṹ

NEG

pũ̀-wè

carry-VIS.PRS

rí

1SG

k'àxõ̀.

weapon.

pũ̀-wè

carry-VIS.PRS

rí

1SG

rí.

1SG

She raised her hand - the old gesture: I carry no weapon. I carry only myself.

:لیٖںوېٖ دیٖشوٰ

lĩ̀-wè

say-VIS.PRS

dì-šú:

3SG.F-ERG

She says:

نطآضاٖ، نطآضاٖ۔ کېٖ کوں ضۆں مۆںتوٰں ضاٖ پاٖ کېٖ نصۆٖ ضۆں مۆںکھوں۔

nǂá-ǃà,

come-IMP

nǂá-ǃà.

come-IMP.

kè

FUT

kũ

eat

ǃõ

1PL.INCL

mõtṹ

food

ǃà

good

pà

and

kè

FUT

nǀò

drink

ǃõ

1PL.INCL

mõkʰũ.

wine

Come, come. We shall eat good food and drink wine.

نیٰ کھوںداٖۆٰںویٖ داٖمگاٖریٖشوٰ مۆںکھوں - ناٖکھوں مۆںنېں، نطاٖں، ڵېٖپاٖکٔیٖ۔

ní

PST

kʰũdà-ṍ-wì

pour-COMPL-VIS.PST

dàm-gàrì-šú

servant-ERG

mõkʰũ

wine

nàkʰũ

water

mõ-nẽ,

plant-GEN

nǂã̀,

old

ɬèpà-k'ì.

clay-LOC.IN

The servants had poured the wine - plant-water, old, from clay.

:نیٰ نصۆٖ ضېٰکوٖںویٖ باٖکھۆٰضاٖشوٰ مۆںکھوں۔ لیٖںوېٖ بۆںشوٰ

ní

PST

nǀò

drink

ǃékũ̀-wì

taste-VIS.PST

Bàkʰóǃà-šú

Bàkʰóǃà-ERG

mõkʰũ.

wine.

lĩ̀-wè

say-VIS.PRS

bõ-šú:

3SG.M-ERG

Bàkʰóǃà drank, tasted the wine. He said:

ضاٖوېٖ مۆںکھوں صآں۔

ǃà-wè

good-VIS.PRS

mõkʰũ

wine

ǀã́.

this

This wine is good.

لیٖںوېٖ نطاٖںگظېشوٰ: مۆںکھوں نطاٖں - ناٖشۆٖم راںظآںنېں۔

lĩ̀-wè

say-VIS.PRS

Nǂã̀gǁe-šú:

Nǂã̀gǁe-ERG

mõkʰũ

wine

nǂã̀

old

nàšòm

river

rãǁã́-nẽ.

two.hand-GEN

Nǂã̀gǁe said: old wine - from ten rivers ago.

نیٰ طوٖویٖ کوٰ۔ نیٰ نطاویٖ مۆںتوٰں: ڭوٖنصیں ڵېٖپاٖڅاٖ، مۆںڅاںپاٖ، مۆںڵېٖپھېٰ۔

ní

PST

ǂù-wì

sit-VIS.PST

kú.

3PL.

ní

PST

nǂa-wì

come-VIS.PST

mõtṹ:

food

ŋùnǀĩ

fish

ɬèpà-tsà,

stone-LOC.ON

mõtsãpà,

bread

mõɬèpʰé.

bitter.greens

They sat. The food arrived: fish on stone, bread, bitter greens.

کھوںلیںوېٖ ڵېٖکھوں ڵېٖکاںخېٖ - پاٖ کھوںلیںوېٖ سېٖضاٖ سېٖرآںخېٖ۔

kʰũlĩ-wè

murmur-VIS.PRS

ɬèkʰũ

spring

ɬèkã-xè

rock-ABL

pà

and

kʰũlĩ-wè

murmur-VIS.PRS

sèǃà

song

sèrã́-xè.

heart-ABL

The spring murmurs from the rock - and song murmurs from the heart.

This one was interesting to read about.

This is my equivalent of a kitchen sink conlang, sadly.

I can't tell if it is a kitchen sink conlang, but if so - I've been wondering if such conlangs can be justified sometimes. E.g., is it the product of in-universe conlanging, or is it a natlang in-universe?

Axas mlö wrote: ↑Mon Feb 16, 2026 3:35 pm I can't tell if it is a kitchen sink conlang, but if so - I've been wondering if such conlangs can be justified sometimes. E.g., is it the product of in-universe conlanging, or is it a natlang in-universe?

Good idea. I'm thinking it might be an auxlang like Sanskrit.

Glenn wrote: ↑Sat Jan 24, 2026 6:50 pm I have a forever-embryonic conlang that is also intended to make use of converbs, but I had not considered the possibility of having different forms for same-subject and different-subject converbs. I may want to borrow this feature, if you don’t mind.

I missed this. Everything I say in public is public domain, frankly.

I like the dualities of virtues and vices. And I like the Phong graph language, somehow I didn't read that earlier - graph languages are cool. I haven't been able to sort out my questions in my mind, but at least I'm wondering: if you have, say, two different storms in the situation you're describing, will there be two storm nodes in the graph?

Axas mlö wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2026 12:01 am I like the dualities of virtues and vices. And I like the Phong graph language, somehow I didn't read that earlier - graph languages are cool.

Thanks. I haven't seen graph conlangs before. The closest I've seen are ER diagrams in Software Engineering. Which one's your favorite?

Axas mlö wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2026 12:01 am I haven't been able to sort out my questions in my mind, but at least I'm wondering:

The full write up needs more examples.

Wh-questions have x in place of the queried entity.

For the Yes/No example, it would have a:

sacrifice -CAUSES-storm

in one subgraph and not the other. The subgraphs would be connected with a QUERY node.

You can be more emphatic with "nature -CAUSES-storm", using a neg node (5.4), etc.

The subgraphs are in the format given in example 11:

subgraph_A = ...
subgraph_B = ...

The only limit in the number of queried subgraphs is the capacity of the gaggle.

Axas mlö wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2026 12:01 am if you have, say, two different storms in the situation you're describing, will there be two storm nodes in the graph?

Yes, storms are EVENT nodes. The nodes would differ in attributes like sensory profile (node type 5 under 1.1). The edges would have different weights and phases (2.6). Two different storms would also differ in their connections in the graph: states, causes, effects, etc.

Thanks for asking questions. I'm still correcting typos.