Zompist Bboard Again

Rejäl is an interesting word, kind of similar to "fair", or "proper". So in an older sense it could almost sort of fit "fair trade" – "good, appropriate, trustworthy" – but today it would mostly be interpreted as "large, sturdy". So I (as a Swede) would hear rejäl handel as "quite a bit of trade". Kind of like what I guess has happened to "fair" (at least in "a fair amount") and "proper" (at least in BE).

Another fun example in Swedish: grina meaning "laugh; grin" in southern Swedish, but "cry; grimace in pain" in central Swedish. And then there's le, "smile" in standard Swedish, "mean, cruel" in dated southern Swedish (and "laugh" in Danish).

This set of verbal correspondences between Standard French and Cajun is complicated enough that I decided to make a little table:

English	Standard French	Cajun French
hear	entendre	attendre
wait	attendre	espérer
hope	espérer	tenir espoir

In German, a filled doughnut without a hole (like a Polish pączek) is usually called a Berliner. Except in Berlin, where it is called a Pfannkuchen. Outside of Berlin that is a pancake, while actual pancakes are called Eierkuchen egg cakes in Berlin.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:20 pm

English	Standard French	Cajun French
wait	attendre	espérer
hope	espérer	tenir espoir

That's funny, in Spanish "hope" and "wait" are the same ("esperar").

caedes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:36 pmIn German, a filled doughnut without a hole is usually called a Berliner. Except in Berlin, where it is called a Pfannkuchen.

In fact, Wikipedia calls it a "Berliner Pfannkuchen".


JAL

jal wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:05 pmIn fact, Wikipedia calls it a "Berliner Pfannkuchen".

That's what "Berliner" is shortened from.

In parts of the eastern US, pączki are called fasnachts. This is a shortening of a southern German/Austrian dialect form (viz. SW German Fastnachtsküchle).

caedes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:36 pm In German, a filled doughnut without a hole (like a Polish pączek) is usually called a Berliner. Except in Berlin, where it is called a Pfannkuchen. Outside of Berlin that is a pancake, while actual pancakes are called Eierkuchen egg cakes in Berlin.

Is that still the case today? I know it was true at the start of this century, but I wondered if Berlin had perhaps started to follow the lead of the rest of the country on that point.

New England	Mid-Atlantic	Midwest
French cruller	cruller	(cruller?)
cruller	bar	Long John

(New England crullers are a little different from bars -- they're typically glazed as opposed to iced, and maybe made with a different dough -- but if we had NE crullers, we'd probably call them a type of bar.)

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:52 pm

New England	Mid-Atlantic	Midwest
French cruller	cruller	(cruller?)
cruller	bar	Long John

(New England crullers are a little different from bars -- they're typically glazed as opposed to iced, and maybe made with a different dough -- but if we had NE crullers, we'd probably call them a type of bar.)

Here in southeastern WI I am used to French crullers being commonly known simply as "French doughnuts", but they are also simply called "crullers" as well.

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:52 pm

New England	Mid-Atlantic	Midwest
French cruller	cruller	(cruller?)
cruller	bar	Long John

(New England crullers are a little different from bars -- they're typically glazed as opposed to iced, and maybe made with a different dough -- but if we had NE crullers, we'd probably call them a type of bar.)

We had a discussion of this at work just the other day!

My father (a native of the Baltimore area) made circular cake doughnuts with a central hole deep fried in fat and covered in powdered sugar. He called these "crullers". The commercial doughnut these are most similar to out here in the Midwest is the "old-fashioned". (These are glazed, but we sugared our doughnuts by putting them in a bag of powdered sugar fresh from the fryer so that the sugar melted a bit and formed a sort of glaze with the excess oil.) "French crullers" differ by being hollow inside.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:18 pm

jal wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:05 pmIn fact, Wikipedia calls it a "Berliner Pfannkuchen".

That's what "Berliner" is shortened from.

In parts of the eastern US, pączki are called fasnachts. This is a shortening of a southern German/Austrian dialect form (viz. SW German Fastnachtsküchle).

Interesting! Swabian Fasnachtsküchle are originally diamond-shaped, have no filling whatsoever and are usually just covered in powdered sugar (and are usually only half the size of a regular doughnut), while pączki come with all kinds of fillings / toppings.

Raphael wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:43 pm

caedes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:36 pm In German, a filled doughnut without a hole (like a Polish pączek) is usually called a Berliner. Except in Berlin, where it is called a Pfannkuchen. Outside of Berlin that is a pancake, while actual pancakes are called Eierkuchen egg cakes in Berlin.

Is that still the case today? I know it was true at the start of this century, but I wondered if Berlin had perhaps started to follow the lead of the rest of the country on that point.

Only last week I had that case at work where my boss told us that he would bring some Pfannkuchen to the office, just to arrive with doughnuts later.

caedes wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:52 pm

Raphael wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:43 pm

caedes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:36 pm In German, a filled doughnut without a hole (like a Polish pączek) is usually called a Berliner. Except in Berlin, where it is called a Pfannkuchen. Outside of Berlin that is a pancake, while actual pancakes are called Eierkuchen egg cakes in Berlin.

Is that still the case today? I know it was true at the start of this century, but I wondered if Berlin had perhaps started to follow the lead of the rest of the country on that point.

Only last week I had that case at work where my boss told us that he would bring some Pfannkuchen to the office, just to arrive with doughnuts later.

Ah, thank you, interesting to know!

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:03 pm My father (a native of the Baltimore area) made circular cake doughnuts with a central hole deep fried in fat and covered in powdered sugar. He called these "crullers". The commercial doughnut these are most similar to out here in the Midwest is the "old-fashioned". (These are glazed, but we sugared our doughnuts by putting them in a bag of powdered sugar fresh from the fryer so that the sugar melted a bit and formed a sort of glaze with the excess oil.) "French crullers" differ by being hollow inside.

We have old-fashioneds too, but mostly because of Starbucks -- otherwise they'd just be cake doughnuts.

So the various names for fizzy drinks in North America (coke, pop, soda, tonic, etc.) are maybe our best-known regionalisms. But I wasn't prepared for this particular bit of polysemy when I visited Minnesota as a child:

soda
Northeast, Southwest, eastern Missouri: soft drink
Minnesota[*] ice cream soda (i.e. what in St Louis we call "[ice cream] float")

I tried to order a "soda" at the soda counter and was baffled that the soda jerk kept asking me, "What kind of ice cream do you want?" I just kept repeating, "No, I want a soda!"

I've also found that brown cow can have different meanings locally. In St Louis, it's always root beer and vanilla ice cream. If you use cola, that's a "black cow" (or a "Coke float"). We never used chocolate ice cream, but in some places that's apparently a "brown cow" (whether made with root beer or cola) and what we call a "brown cow" is simply a "root beer float".

My Californian husband was also baffled the first time he ordered "Scotch and soda" in St Louis and got Scotch with "white soda" (i.e. sweetened lemon-lime soda) rather than the club soda (a.k.a. "seltzer") he expected.

[*] I'm not sure the exact distribution. I haven't encountred that meaning in Chicago, but it's not something I consume as an adult.

Here in (south)eastern Wisconsin the traditional term for soda is, well, soda, which is significant because it differs significantly from the rest of the Midwest except for, IIRC, parts of Missouri.

It is also the case in western Pennsylvania that the word soda is assumed to have an elided 'ice cream' in front of it.

Here in Wisconsin we also call it a root beer float.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:02 pm

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:52 pm

New England	Mid-Atlantic	Midwest
French cruller	cruller	(cruller?)
cruller	bar	Long John

(New England crullers are a little different from bars -- they're typically glazed as opposed to iced, and maybe made with a different dough -- but if we had NE crullers, we'd probably call them a type of bar.)

Here in southeastern WI I am used to French crullers being commonly known simply as "French doughnuts", but they are also simply called "crullers" as well.

So what do the words describe? They appear to describe a form of pastry that I am not familar with.

Chuma wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:48 am Rejäl is an interesting word, kind of similar to "fair", or "proper". So in an older sense it could almost sort of fit "fair trade" – "good, appropriate, trustworthy"

Huh, I had no idea about this.

Chuma wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:48 amAnother fun example in Swedish: grina meaning "laugh; grin" in southern Swedish, but "cry; grimace in pain" in central Swedish. And then there's le, "smile" in standard Swedish, "mean, cruel" in dated southern Swedish (and "laugh" in Danish).

To me the verb grina can mean both grin and cry.

MacAnDàil wrote: ↑Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:16 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:02 pm

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:52 pm

New England	Mid-Atlantic	Midwest
French cruller	cruller	(cruller?)
cruller	bar	Long John

(New England crullers are a little different from bars -- they're typically glazed as opposed to iced, and maybe made with a different dough -- but if we had NE crullers, we'd probably call them a type of bar.)

Here in southeastern WI I am used to French crullers being commonly known simply as "French doughnuts", but they are also simply called "crullers" as well.

So what do the words describe? They appear to describe a form of pastry that I am not familar with.

This at least is a French cruller:

Actually, "French doughnut" refers to a beignet, it seems.