Zompist Bboard Again

Texts A B C from The Epic of Son-Jara in Okrand Atlantean and Ancient Africa Conlang

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I made a website for this summer's project with Okrand Atlantean by the maker of Klingon and my Ancient Africa Conlang.

New Texts in Okrand Atlantean with an Ancient African Conlang: Medieval West Africa Texts
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2020/0 ... w=flipcard

Images for Previous Post
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2020/0 ... w=flipcard

I've been adding the texts there. I have finished hand-written draft translations into Okrand Atlantean but not into the Ancient Africa Conlang. I'm on the final text, Text G, for that one.

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I don't think I have posted Text A, Text B, or Text C here, so I'll copy them here so that they're easier to quote and study.

Some thoughts before we continue:

It occurs to me that "Ancient Africa Conlang" is very similar to Swahili for grammar. I have made alterations to it such that it is distinct from Swahili and more of a mix of Bantu languages for grammar, plus other things I thought would spice things up. I think it's still very similar to Swahili, though. Most of the words are very similar to Swahili so far as I have access to it. There may be some grammatical references to Non-Bantu Niger-Congo languages.

I didn't take a long time in examining my available resources to make the "Ancient Africa Conlang". Originally I think I was only going to translate Text A but had thought of translating them all. For me, the language is a tool to get me interested in Swahili and Bantu languages and it has succeeded.

I'm trying to study Bantu and Non-Bantu Niger-Congo languages a bit but I don't know if I will work that into these Ancient Africa Conlang texts. I still have a lot to do with the Atlantean for consistency. And I have really put a lot of time already into the Ancient Africa Conlang texts, looking up almost every word in Texts B to F in my Teach Yourself Swahili Dictionary. Every now and then, I tried to spice it up. It's been a good experience because I've been able to explore Swahili and it's a very different language from either English or Latin. I've actually studied hundreds of languages, though, so I have some idea of how different things can be. Swahili at the word level has been refreshing, though.

This Teach Yourself Swahili dictionary is one of the most interesting that I have in any language, especially for a modern language dictionary. ( I own mostly historic or ancient language dictionaries, in non-digital format. )

The word and clause order of the Ancient African Conlang follows the English aside from noun - adjective and verb - adverb. I don't think I'll change that and either refer readers to the grammar or let them imagine what a more realistic word and clause order would be. This is an expedient to making translations faster. As it is now, without glosses, it's also hard enough to follow as it is.

And I have no plans now to gloss every word. I'll upload my notes and interested parties can have simultaneous reference to them. They gloss a lot but not everything. Some things would have to be figured out using the common morphemes.

Again, the point of the Ancient Africa Conlang is that The Epic of Son-Jara that I have is not bilingual and so I wanted to make something which was an approximation for the original. Too late did I learn that West Africa is mostly Non-Bantu Niger Congo languages. But I own these very nice Swahili and Niger-Congo resources, so I have made some good and memorable use of them.

...

Also, sorry, no further grammar notes. Just me typing it up.

Well, here's a little:

= : Usually separates Noun Class Prefix from the Noun Root.
=Noun.Root Noun.Class.Prefix=Adjective
This is how adjectives agree with their nouns. I think in actual Swahili, both get the Noun Class Prefix and I read the grammar wrong or something.

=Verb.Root Verb.Affixes=Adverb.or.Modal.Verb.Root

I use the 6 or so actual Noun Classes of Swahili. Usually my conlangs have only one noun class and only one verb conjugation and no irregular verbs. So this has been interesting but also more time-consuming than usual.

== : This is used for three prefixes (sometimes suffixes) :
pa== at ( place, definiteness)
ku== to ( indefiniteness, movement )
mu== in

@ : This means there's nothing there. I think it's mostly used when the Noun Class and Number Prefix has been moved but there needs to be a prefix before it. Like mu==@=Noun.Root-suffixes.

Imitation Swahili words, invented by me, feature a doubled initial letter. The very long ones are usually Ghana names of plants from a certain book of West African plants that I have. I wanted to make use of that book and explore it some, and I did.

Here's the basic morphological chains of everything, using examples:

house-my

( ny=umba-ni )

I-Past-give-it-to.him

( ni-li-pa-a-a )

( These can't be used as independent pronouns and only occur as affixes. )
i NI
you U
he she it A
we TU
you guys M
they WA

You will also encounter:

of -AA
and NA
with NAA
without BILA
this HUYU
that -LE
or AU, AMA

thing J=AMBO (used to form independent pronouns)
person M=TU (used to form independent pronouns)
self NAFSI (used to form independent pronouns)

for MUDA.WA
out NJE
by (in Passive sentences) NJE "out"
from -TOKA.KWA, KUTOKA.KWA
on JUU.YA
to KWA
because KWA.SABABU
little -DOGO
big -KUBWA

Passive -liw-, -lew-
Causative -ish-
Negation -hawa-
Imperative n-

Habitual -hu-
Past -li-
Future -ta-
Relative, in Verb -o-
Relative, Pronoun amba-
Conditional -nge-
Inceptive -p-
Subjunctive -e


Infinitive, "to" ku-
-ing (uninflected verb form) cchigi-

un- -to-
Adjective, "doer" -aji


...

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Text A, Page A.
Originally copied by hand Tues 5 5 2020.

Page 76.
Ah! My little brother, God has made you like the beehive. The eye of the enemy is on you. The hand of the enemy cannot touch you. Ah, my little brother, God has given you the bards and the smiths. Son-Jara, the Manden belongs to you!

Notes by me: Son-Jara: Hero of the Epic, Founder of the Old Mali Empire, c 1600s.
Manden: Old Mali Empire.

Okrand Atlantean:
Te! As-top tipim-mil kagin, mah neb mohit dol-shimot eshelen-tem. Okwep washod-ag mohit meg es-etot. Shayod washod-ag mohit tag bog-etot. Te! As-top tipim-mil kagin, mah neb mohib nuh-imot lilum-tem gim nelut. Aktirak-wer-top, Ad-top, Adlantis-tem tenos-letot!

Aktirak-wer :
Hammerhead Shark Man, like the Ancient Egyptian god Ra.
Ad :
"The Heart of Atlantis", sentient sun-like Atlantean being.

Ancient Africa Conlang:
Guta!
=Dugu-ni n=dogo, Mungu a-li-ish-fanana.na-u m=zinga.
Jichoma aduima-aa a-mazao-u.
M=kono aduima-aa a-hawa-hodari-u ki-banzi.
Guta, =dugu-ni n=dogo, Mungu a-li-toa-u mi=shairi na mi=hunzi.
Sson-Jara, Mmanden a-pita kwa-u!


Text A, Page B.

He went then and gave the pouch of gold to the Tunkara Patriarch, Prince Tunkara of Mema, saying they should cast the sigi. When Son-Jara returned from the bush ...

Okrand Atlantean:
Ab toy-imot gim
Nartak-wer Metad-tem Nartak-lant-ag deg
Peyes-tem Nartak-wer-ag
gom
sedig-tem hakek-ag nuh-imot.
Yer-en-tem serih-setoh bet reg-e.
Dos Aktirak-wer dulal-tem ga digad-imot
...

Ancient Africa Conlang:
A-li-enda ndipo na a-li-toa-a vyombo dhahabu-aa
kwa Cchumvi Ttunkara-aa,
Mwana-wa-mfalme Tunkara Mema-aa,
da-sema wa-wi-adhiri vi=kuku.
Son-Jara a-po-achana a-toka.kwa ny=ika
...


Notes:
"Mèma: The land where Son-Jara lives in exile from the Manden. In several particulars, Mèma resembles Medina, where the prophet Mohammed lived in exile while he prepard to overtake Mecca."
http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~jgr6/203/unit10 ... cters.html
Tunkara: This kingdom is apparently ruled by the Tunkara family.
cast the sigi: This is a trial by fire to determine if warriors are not related and so able to face eachother upon the battle field. Both grab metal bracelets out of a pot of burning potash and put them on.

Text A, Page C.

Since Son-Jara entered Mema, the eldest Tunkara daughter had loved him. Don't you know that person's name? Her name was Mema Sira.

Okrand Atlantean:
Sagah Aktirak-wer Nartak-lant-tem nageb-imot,
dateya madem-bey Nartak-wer-ag hipes-imot.
Anik-tem lud-ag deb kwam panneb-enen du?
Anik tuhin Nayap Nartak-lant-ag es-imot.

Notes:
Nayap: a long-nosed shark.

Ancient Africa Conlang:
Tangu Sson-Jara a-ingia ku==Mema,
binti ote-mzee Tunkara-aa a-li-penda-a.
U-hawa-jua-a jina m=tu-le zzaidi?
Jina-a-ake a-li-wa Mmema Ssira.




Text A, Page D.

Note 2045.
The familiar African (Caribbean, South Asian) game of shifting tokens from one of the twelve or more holes to the next. Many variants of this game exist all over the world, and the game often goes by the generic name derived from Arabic "Mankala".

Okrand Atlantean:
Dashug mak
Men-mil, ( Kakos-mil, Deyabond-in Bom-mil, )
odedlush-tem gom
kiroyd-en-tem din yadil-ag as peleb ga
yed-en-ag meres-e.
Gipit-en tuler-mig dashug-ag neb
nesdum-tem gut
komtib-retoh.
Gim dashug nish-in pidat-etot
anik aropos-mil Makala
deg
Dig-tem Mipot-ag ga teton-imot.
.
Ancient Africa Conlang:
=Windo ma=cheua mase Nchi-Ssokoma, Nchi-Zzimwi.la.baharini, =Chi-Wwali n=sini, sema ki-hafifu-aa ma=dalili a-toka.kwa ma=shimoma moja wili-aa ama zaidi kwa m=fuata. Ma=mmbo-ingi ma=windo-aa huyu uukungu.mzito ulimwengu, na ma=windo a-ppole =na ji=kkimya a-liw-pengo a-toka.kwa Ki=arabu "Mankala".

Text A, Page E.

Note 16-17, Page 104.
Description of the land mass of the ancient empire of Mali. Sokoto is a city in the modern northern Nigera and was an important settlement in the 19th century Fulani theocratic empire in that region. Fatiyataligara is obscure but one assistant considered it the home of the Soninke in the present-day Mauritania.

Okrand Atlantean:
Kweb genal-ag indanat-ag metot-mil Titet-ag:
Yeren-lant-tem kaweb-mil hekan-mil net
Pelad wil es-etot.
Gim es-imot
ayam nilden-mil
soreg-ag 19 net
Mogat-lant indanat mareyg-mil tet-tem deb net.
Gerab-lant garen-uses es-imot.
Ad atons-os din
Gen-lant peruk-mil net nasap Melish luden-ag es-imot
bet kwesash-imot.

Ancient Africa Conlang:
Kkashifa u=sshaha-aa =lki-aa mi=cchaza Mali-aa.
Ssokoto a-wa mji-m=kubwa
mu==@=chi-ki=kkaango n=kaskazini n=mmaisha
na a-li-wa =ffalme u=mmuhtasari
mu==@=lki mi=karne-tisa mi=kuhani
mu==ki=onya.njia-le.
Fatiyataligara a-giza.la.jioni ila
=tu-eepesi m=hakika
a-li-jjidai-a ny=umbani Soninke-aa
mu==@-Chi-Uupenu n=hatari.


Text A Done.




Text B, Page A.

Originally copied by hand Fri 5 8 2020.

Page 69, Line 1803.
They said, If you seek Sumamuru, ask of the hawk! The balaphone of seven keys: After Sumamuru had played that balaphone, the mallets of the ballaphone, he would take, and give them to the hawk.


Okrand Atlantean:
Reg-etoh, Eb Nartak-wer birek-enen, kasun-tem geloh! Shinup kolish-enag 7: Gis Nartak-wer shinup-tem deb ranip-imot, ogdil-entem shinup-ag, las-imot, gim kasun-tem gom sobit peb-imot.


Ancient Africa Conlang:
Wa-sema, Kama u-tafuta-a Sumamuru, n-uliza m=wewe!
=Bala ji=kunguo ji=saba-aa:
Nyuma.ya Sumamuru a-li-gguda n=bala-le,
ny=unda bala-aa,
a-li-hu-shika, na a-pa-wa-a kwa m=wewe.


Notes:
Sumamuru: The main enemy of the epic, a Pagan sorcerer king that Son-Jara fights and defeats.
balaphone: A type of musical instrument, called bala in the Mandinka language. -Phone is from English xylophone.




Text B, Page B.

Line 1809.
It would fly up high in a Flame Tree. And there in the depths of Susu Forest sit. Doka the Cat called to the hawk. The balaphone mallets, it delivered to him.

Okrand Atlantean:
Denet-tem yon-ag net kes-in nutag-kimot. Gim yus tibes-tem kayloh-ag Kraken-lant-ag net holis-imot. Ketak Mekas kasun-tem gom ket-imot. Ogdil-entem shinup-ag, tugib bobis-imot.

Ancient Africa Conlang:
A-hu-ruka.hewani kwa apotorodom-miki. Na pa==le mu==m=witu-gido susu-aa a-li-hu-chogi-a. Doka Paka a-li-mogo-a m=wewe. Ny=undo bala-aa, a-li-boroka-a-a.


Text B, Page C.

Line 1813.
Dun Fayiri, Nun Fayiri!
Manda Kante and Sama Kante!
Sori Kante, the Tall!
Susu Mountain Sumamuru Kante!
Salute Sumamuru!

Okrand Atlantean:
Din Nar, Dut Nar!
Sey Tak, Kut Tak!
Sha Tak, saynim-mil!
Nartak-lant Maleg Nartak-wer Tak!
Goyus-yoh Nartak-wer!

[ These ancestors of Nartak-wer are given numbers and parts of his name, with reference to the names of the ancestral kings of the Shang Dynasty in the Oracle Bone Script Chinese inscriptions. Nar is "corpse" or "musician" and tak is "fish". Din dut sey kut sha : 1 2 3 4 5. There is also some reference to Hades and the Greek gods being the children of the Titans, though not much because it is not a common mythological concept. This was a very hard passage to translate because I had to find the footnote explaining what the names in it meant. ]

Ancient Africa Conlang:
Dun Fayiri, Nun Fayiri!
Manda Kante na
Sama Kante!
Sori Kante, m=tu-refu!
Susu M=lima Sumamuru Kante!
N-salimu Sumamuru!


Sumamuru: The main enemy of the epic.
Note 1813 ff. The Janjon is a floating praise-poem, sung here for Sumamuru, see the note for lines 1311 ff. This poem is said to be sung to warriors going into battle. Another praise poem called the Duga is said to be sung to warriors coming out of battle. Lines 1813-15 are Kante clan ancestors, while lines 1816 to 28 are praise-names for Sumamuru, emphaisizing his occult power and ruthlessness.

I included this part for the parts before and after it. I don't remember what it's all about. Ancient texts are like this, you need a glossary and several books and you still can't be sure what it all means.


Text B, Page D.


Line 1818.

Sumamuru came amongst us:
His pants of human skin.
Sumamuru came amongst us,
his coat of human skin.
Sumamuru came amongst us,
his helm of human skin.
The first and ancient king,
the king of yesteryear.
So, respite does not end resolve.
Sumamuru, I found you gone.
Oh! Glorious Janjon!

Okrand Atlantean Conlang:

Nartak-wer gwisit mib saldup-imot,
berak tugin ipihok-ag tarob-enag.

Nartak-wer gwisit mib saldup-imot,
burok tugin ipihok-ag tarob-enag.

Nartak-wer gwisit mib saldup-imot,
gamal tugin ipihok-ag tarob-enag.

Makit din-lag gim heg-mil,
makit yanut-losh-ag.

Bat, pigosh-ir noshib-ir-tem kwam bosil-imot.
Nartak-wer-top, mohit komtib-dimik .
Um! Martak-wer mashig-mil!



Ancient Africa Conlang:

Sumamuru a-li-ja katikati.ya-tu,
suruali-a ng=ozi-a.kibindamu-aa.

Sumamuru a-li-ja katikati.ya-tu,
m=paku-a ng=ozi-a.kibindamu-aa.

Sumamuru a-li-ja katikati.ya-tu,
u=sukani-a ng=ozi-a.kibindamu-aa.

M=falne-a.kwanza na m=tu-a.kale, m=falne m=bbidu-aa.
Meta, m=figo a-hawa-ssupa-a m=bigabiga.
Ni-li-ona-a m=bbipu-u.
Chiki! Jajon-tukufu!

Sumamuru: Main enemy of the epic, rival Pagan king.
of human skin: I've read a lot and in old times, body parts of captured enemies were made into trophies which were worn or displayed in various ways and with various meanings. Usually it's the part of the body in which they thought the soul resided. Notably, the Mayan Hieroglyph for shield, PAKAL, is thought to have a skinned human face on it. Which reminds one of the image of the Gorgon's face which was depicted on some Ancient Greek shields. Which reminds one of shrunken heads and scalpings.


Text B Done.

Text C, Page E.

Originally copied by hand Fri 5 8 2020.


Note 1780.

Ta-Suma-Gani-Late, 'Caress of Hot Fire', appears to be a praise-name for King Dankaran Tuman's daughter, emphasizing her sexual appeal.

Okrand Atlantean Conlang:
Kraken-gwen, 'Shapash-Atsin-Narnikmil', godas dateya Tenaken Meges Makit-ag sher es-hetot, mehob-tem tuhin ek-in boleh-e.

Ancient Africa Conlang:
Ta-Suma-Gani-Late,
'Kukumbatia.kwa.upendo Moto-a.moto-aa',
nounoudoukoye-bboka muda.wa binti Mfalne Dankaran Tuman-aa,
cchigi-ppalapalabu m=gali-a m=yeye-bb.


Note 1781.

Doka the Cat is Son-Jara's royal bard, usurpsed by Dankaran Tuman when he exiled Son-Jara.

Note 1782.

Susu Mountain Sumamuru Kante.

Sorcerer king of the country of Susu, casted blacksmith, scourge of Islam, and archenemy of Son-Jara.

Okrand Atlantean Conlang:
Martag-wer Mekeas es-etot shamad makit-mil Aktirak-wer-ag, Tenaken Meges mob berish-imot dos Aktirak-wer-tem hodlim-imot.

Nartak-lant Maleg Nartak-wer Tak.
Makit Lenad demot-ag Nartak-lant-ag, kwah kenip-imot, pudeb Yadlug-ir-ag, gim washod-mok Aktirak-ag.

Ancient Africa Conlang:
Doka Paka a-wa
m=shairi-a.kifalme Sson.Jara-aa,
a-li-lew-jitwali.bila.haki-a
nje Dankara Tuman
a-li-po-hamisha.ugenini-a Sson.jara.

SSusu M=lima Sumamuru Kante.
M=chawi M=falne ji=mbo-aa Ssusu-aa,
li-aburokyiriaba m=hunzi,
m=jeledi Afangmeitsho-aa,
na adui-bbolo Sson.Jara-aa.

Text C, Page G.

Note 1786.

Balaphone.
Musical instrument resembling the xylophone. The keys are made of rosewood, and calabashes of different sizes, tied below the keys, provide resonance.

Okrand Atlantean Conlang:
Shinup.
Narim warkod keleb-etot.
Kolish-en yoshubr-entem ga pah-imot
gim tawit-enesh sheloh-mig deg shab-entem
yos kolish-entem shak lerosh-eshetoh
yos wowom-tetoh.

Ancient Africa Conlang:
Bala.
Chombo.cha.kufanyia.kazi cchigi-ppogopogo angkaatwaree.
Ngi=kunguo wa-liw-fanyiza nje kwai.angma.tsho,
na ma=buyu vi-nnula-ssuki-aa
li-funga.kwa.kamba chini.ya ng'=kunguo
oogo m=sshugalawanga faa-ggoza muda.wa kkotamedefetsui.


Text C, Page H.

( Players often attach metal jingler sto their hands which resonate when the keys are struck with mallets. The word balaphone is a combination of the Mandekan word bala and the English suffix -phone.

Okrand Atlantean Conlang:
Nar-en wey sakip-etoh
nisis-entem dilam-mig shayod-entem sobin gom
yos wowom-eshetoh yos
ogdil-enesh kolish-entem hok-eshdetoh.
Palab "shinup"
palab-ag Yerag-lant-ag "shib" gim
palab-ag Tuyeb-lant-ag "nup"
rusik-betot.

Ancient Africa Conlang:
Mi=chez-aji =wwechiwechi wa-hu-mara.nyingi-wa mi=madini tikitiki-aji kwa wa=kono-wa wa-o-hu-kotamedefetsui wa-po-hu-liw-piga-wa nje ny=undo. Neno "meku-bala" a-wa m=bijabija neno-mande-aa "bala" na m=cchungichungikupa-bbugi "meku-".


Text C, Page I.

Note 1797. Dark forest.

Both words are images of the occult.

Dibi 'darkness' implies the secretive milieu of sorcery while the forest symbolizes the realm of chaos. See note for lines 356 to 359.

The image is of a pagan sorcerer's domain.

Okrand Atlantean Conlang:

N 1797. Lisom plitak-mil.

Palab-en bud-mig maysot-en kohek-ag es-etot.

Plitak-ir goteh-tem ish-mil lenad-ir-ag tenem-etot,
dos lisom hagek-tem shushus-ag welum-etot.
Bideg-entem 365-59 sher pedlim-tem gamos-yoh.

Maysot yeydil-tem lenad-makit-ag dukap-mil kiweb-etot.

Ancient Africa Conlang:

N 1797. =Witu m=dibi.

=Eno n=vyote.viwili wa-wa-wa wa=fano m=jigu-aa.

M=ddibi a-chini-ambia u=siri limwengu u=rafiki-aa,
a-po-ish-dalili m=witu kwa m=ilki machafuko.makubwa-aa.
( N-uona barua.fupi juu.ya wa=stari 356-59. )

M=fano a-ambia-a ma=mlaka m=tombolombo-chawi-falne-aa.


Text C, Page J.

Note 1813 ff.

The Janjon is a floating praise-poem, sung here for Sumamuru. ( See note for lines 1311 ff. ) This poem is said to be sung to warriors going into battle. ( Another praise-poem called the Duga is said to be sung to warriors coming out of battle. )

Okrand Atlantean Conlang:

N 1818 ff.

Riyag hupat idem-mil es-etot, won Nartak-wer-tem sher kan-i. ( Bideg-entem 1311 tin sher pedlim-tem gamos-yoh. ) Dob neb tarik-tem net bin-e deg bidlug-osentem gom gorash-in kanesh-etot. ( Legap shiban hupat-ag tarik-tem ek saldup-e deg bidlug-osentem gom gorash-in kan-eshetot. )

Ancient Africa Conlang:
Janjon a-wa cchigi-elea kkokolengyema, a-li-liw-imba ha==pa muda.wa Ssumamuru. ( N-ona barua.fupi juu.ya wa=stari 1311 ff. ) Ma=shari huyu a-ttugu-li-liw-imba kwa vy=askari cchigi-ingia pigano. ( Kkoloengyema-ingine a-wa.na-a ji=na Duga a-ttugu-imba kwa vy=askari wa-enda-nje pigano. )

Image:
Here's a picture of a balaphone with some related vocabulary in Okrand Atlantean:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balafon

I made a website for this summer's project with Okrand Atlantean by the maker of Klingon and my Ancient Africa Conlang.

New Texts in Okrand Atlantean with an Ancient African Conlang: Medieval West Africa Texts
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2020/0 ... w=flipcard

Images for Previous Post
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2020/0 ... w=flipcard

...

Updates to current conlang studies and other research:
I'm mostly focusing on this Okrand Atlantean Language Project the last few months. I'm also studying Sumerian writing and dictionaries, some grammar.

Recently I did a quick survey of the Zompist conlangs. I noticed few of them have much for sample texts. The one that has the most is the first one which has words and grammar much like Latin. I can read Latin somewhat fluently. I hope one day I can translate some sizeable text into that language. There's a lot of well-organized and easily accessible lore associated with these languages spanning c 1997 to present and it's all very well done and nice.

One thing that the Zompist conlangs have over conlangs from famous books, movies, and tv is that they're more often well-presented in terms of grammars, dictionaries, and interlinear glossed texts.

I would like to request, however, that all sample texts in the Zompist conlangs, aka Mark Rosenfelder conlangs, be interlinear glossed. Perhaps it would be better if I did that, at least for the core non-wiki sample texts, rather than translate something else. It would be imminently useful for people wishing to quickly use and or approximate the language for any sort of composition.

Aside from my own conlangs, I tend to just study conlangs from famous movies tv and books. However, I have studied many more. And I do like to work on high profile conlangs and have received a welcome in this website several times over the years when I felt inspired to stop by and learn from the immanent sages of language science and "language experimentation" aka conlanging, meager fool that I am.

Again, it is always refreshing to see the degree to which science is taken seriously by conlangers such as Zompist aka Mark Rosenfelder, when they give such clear and well-explained grammars, dictionaries, and interlinear glossed texts using standardized grammatical abbreviations and conventions. For Dothraki, we saw a Living Language grammar (without much of a dictionary) which did not compare at all with The Klingon Dictionary. Which is much maligned in such circles despite the obvious disservice this does to science and to all the languages with similar grammars (Native American languages come to mind, especially those of eastern North America and especially my own Mohawk and Northern Iroquoian languages. Despite how widespread this language is, it's notable that it's often mocked and treated with contempt ... not unlike native American and other non-English and non-West European languages.

And so it should be said, by me as I am a unique scholar specializing in these things, that Zompist and other conlangs like him aforesaid, have done a great service to science and to language science by promoting language science and "language experimentation" aka conlanging. For worked into these "composite languages" are grammar and anthropological realities which are very real and very in need of respect and attention - and not just for the sake of ornamentation, for the sake of all things that matter. For what is at the root of injustices between humans if not misunderstanding of cultures and languages? Not much more, really. What is more satisfying than being understood or almost being understood? And yet, of all the money in the world, how little is devoted to this above other more tangible and more tangential of causes.

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Text C, Page K.

Lines 1813 to 15 are Kante clan ancestors, while lines 1816 to 28 are praise-names for Sumamuru, emphasizing his occult power and ruthlessness.

Okrand Atlantean Language:
Bideg-en 1813-15 nisop-entem yek-ag Tak-ag kel-etoh, dos bideg-en 1816-28 Nartak-wer-tem sher godas-entem kel-etoh, datah-tem tugin gim shodlek-tem sagayt-e.

Ancient Africa Conlang:
Wa=stari 1813-15 wa-tangaza-wa mi=Kante-koo-kale, wa-po-wa-wa wa=stari 1816-28 wa-wa-wa vi=nnounoudoukoye muda.wa Ssumamuru, cchigi-palapalabu ki=bbilikimo-a na ki=pasipo.huruma.


Text C, Page L.

Note 1825.

King of Yesteryear.

( Or King of Tradition / Traditional King. )

Praise name for Sumamuru strongly suggesting a pagan versus Moslem theme in the epic, with Son-Jara representing the Moslem forces. Some have suggested this theme as the key to understanding the real meaning of the epic.

Okrand Atlantean Conlang:
N 1825.
Makit Yanut-losh-ag.
( Ik Makit Mulish-ag / Makit Mulish-mil. )
Godas Nartak-wer-tem sher
deg wesod-tem net teyim-tem Dukap-ag sok Yadlug-irag
deg okwep-entem hen it pen-e,
Aktirak-wer-esh deywit-en Yadlug-irag pebon-e.
Luden porek-mig shilen-etoh
yos teyim neb kolish wesod-nuk-ag
doyin-irtem sher es-etot .

Ancient Africa Conlang:
N 1825. M=falne m=bbidu-aa.
( Au M=falne Ma=pokeo-aa / M=falne M=pokeo. )
Nnounoudoukoy muda.wa Ssumamuru a-wa ki=dokezi-zito kwa n=zzoea amba-a ttombolombo a-pambana.na-a aafangmeitsho mu=homa.ya.baridi, kama Sson-Jara a-ish-dalili =sshogo ki=aafangmeitsho. Wa=tu-inge wa-li-toa.shauri n=zzoea huyu a-wa u=kunguo cchigi-fahamu-aa ma=elezo-a.hakika homa.ya.baridi-aa.


Text C, Page M.

It seems more likely, however, that many other themes are of equal importance. In any case, Islam in Mande tradition syncretized with the pagan forces it fights. See notes for lines 325ff.

Okrand Atlantean Conlang:
Im doker-ra bet kaper-ekik
deg teyim-en shib-mig tuler-mig
gobeb-in momeh-etoh.
Im-tem deb iwek-i, im shib-an nibish-i,
Yadlug-ir hiwak-tem wesod-ag neb net
lishom-enes dukap-mig bodeh-imot
deg maram-etot.
Bideg-entem 325ff sher pedlim-tem gamos-yoh.

Ancient Africa Conlang:
A-gginchi-elekea, walakini, amba-a n=zzoea-ingine-ingi wa-muhimu wa-hawa-zaidi.
Ggafu, aafangmeitsho mu==ma=pokeo-mmande a-li-ungana naa =shogo ki=tombolombo a-o-piga-a.
N-uona barua.fupi juu.ya wa=stari 325ff.

Text C, Page N.

1835 The audience acquainted with the legend understands at this point that Sumamuru's occult power enables him to hear his balaphone no matter where he is at the time it is played.

Okrand Atlantean Conlang:
1835 Pogash-tem panneb-e deg gawnut
won doyin-etot
deg dalah nartak-wer-ag shinup-tem tugin shitah bog-idimot
yos law-nar-tem lih yos tikud-etot
dos darim-tem lih narem-eshgetot.

Ancient Africa Conlang:
1835 Watu.waliokuja.kusikiliza wa-o-jua-a hekaya wa-fahamu-a hu==mu m=bilikimo Ssumamuru-aa a-ish-weza ku-sikia bala-a mu==mw=ahali-ote a-wa a-po-liw-hu-tumia.


Text C, Page O.

Note 1837.

Sumamuru suspects the bard of being a jinn. See the note for line 103. Because Doka the Cat was able to penetrate and survive Sumamuru's occult world.

Okrand Atlantean Conlang:
N 1837. Nartak-wer tokit gehop-etot yos shamad kewin es-etot.
( Bideg-tem 103 sher pedlim-tem gamos-yoh. )
Dob Ketak Mekas
luweh-tem nartak-wer-ag
nageb gim yinub bog-imot.

Ancient Africa Conlang:
N 1837. Ssumamuru amba-a m=shairi a-sshuku-wa kkyikyilantena.
( N-uona barua.fupi juu.ya m=stari 103. )
Kwa.sababu Doka Paka a-li-weza ku-ingia na ku-pona.katika.hatari kkiendecheka Ssumamuru-aa.



Text C Done.

( Texts remaining to be added: D E F G.

Update on work on Okrand Atlantean and my Ancient Africa Conlang translations:

I have finished draft translations of everything now.

I asked Zompist and he thought I should only post my translations on one thread. So I'll be posting them on this one. Except this final post.

Here's the other thread, on the Ancient Africa Conlang, giving grammar information twice.
https://www.verduria.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=645

Then here's the thread on Atlantean where I'll also put the Africa conlang translations:

Atlantean Language by the Creator of the Klingon Language: Grammars, Dictionaries, New Translations, and Conlangs by Me
https://www.verduria.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=651

What remains to be done:
- Revise all Okrand Atlantean for consistency, maybe do a quicker version for the Ancient Africa Conlang.
- Photograph all notes and get them online.
- Maybe finish typing up basic presentations of the translations.
- Maybe interlinear gloss one page for each that shows what I've done.
- Maybe get back to the extensive Pakuni translations and such that I was working on.

Bob wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:00 pm I asked Zompist and he thought I should only post my translations on one thread. So I'll be posting them on this one. Except this final post.

Thank you!

- Maybe finish typing up basic presentations of the translations.
- Maybe interlinear gloss one page for each that shows what I've done.

These would be very nice! Any idea when you’ll get around to doing them?

Here's two sample interlinear glossed texts for both conlangs. I'm doing Text D right now, so decided to interlinear gloss the first Page of it, Page A.

...
...

Text D, Page A.


Note 2042.


Sigi game.

Variant explanations exist for this game. The one described in this text seems to be the modern game of npari, or nperi. ( See note for line 2046. )

And sigi is described as the "ancestor" of modern games. The bard describes their development in terms of a genealogy.

Okrand Atlantean Language:
N 2042. ( Shilug yer-ag. )
Lud-en nes-mig shilug-tem neb ob-in wetes-imtoh.
Im deg dubteg-tem neb net yihoyb-eshetot
yos shilug gilosh-mil ripeh-ag ish ripah-ag es-kwetot.
( Pedlim-tem 2046 sher bideg-tem gamos-yoh. )

Gim yer "kehol" shilug-enag gilosh-mil yihoyb-eshetot.
Shamad gemush-tem wok mishib-tem sobin wetes-etot.

Okrand Atlantean Language, interlinear gloss:
note N number 2042. ( game SHILUG sigi-of YER-AG. )
person-s LUD-EN some-adj-plural NES-MI-G game-oblique SHILUG-TEM this NEB contradictingly-adverb OB-IN explain-did-they WETES-IM-TOH.
thing IM which DEG text-oblique DUBTEG-TEM this NEB in NET describe-passive-present-it YIHOYB-ESH-ET-OT
which YOS game SHILUG modern-adj-singular GILOSH-MI-L Name-of RIPEH-AG or ISH Name-of RIPAH-AG be-seems-present-it ES-KW-ET-OT.
( line-oblique PEDLIM-TEM number 2046 for SHER note-oblique BIDEG-TEM see-please GAMOS-YOH. )

and GIM sigi YER ancestor "KEHOL" game-s-of SHILUG-EN-AG modern-adjective-singular GILOSH-MI-L describe-passive-present-it YIHOYB-ESH-ET-OT.
bard SHAMAD genealogy-oblique GEMUSH-TEM in terms of WOK development-oblique MISHIB-TEM their < they-of SOB-IN describe-present-it WETES-ET-OT.

-EN: Noun Plural
-TEM : Oblique Case (like Accusative plus Dative Case)
-AG: Genitive Case
-IN: Genitive Case, for Pronouns
-MI- : Adjective Suffix
-G : Adjective Plural
-L : Adjective Singular
-IN : Adverb Suffix
-IM : Past Tense Suffix
DEG : Relative Clause Particle
YOS : Subordinate Clause Particle
-ISH : Passive Suffix
No prepositions, only postpositions.
( "Preposterous!?!", you may say. Well, that's the proposition and this is the exposition. )



Ancient Africa Conlang:
N 2042.
( Ssigi ma=windo. )
Mi=elezo wa-bbadili-wa-wa muda.wa ma=windo huyu. Amba-a aya-aa huyu a-liw-nukabi a-jjalu-wa ma=windo-a.kisasa nnpari au nperi.
( N-uona barua.fupi juu.ya m=stari 2046. )
Na ssigi a-liw-nukabi "m=kale" mi=windo-a.kisasa-aa.
M=shairi a-nukabi-a ma=endelo-wa naa m=sema nasaba.

Ancient Africa Conlang, interlinear gloss:
note BURUA.FUPI number 2042.
( sigi SSIGI game MA=WINDO. )
explanations MI=ELEZO they-in.variant-be-them WA-BBADILI-WA-WA for MUDA.WA game MA=WINDO this HUYU. which-he AMBA-A text-of AYA-AA this HUYU it-Passive-describe A-LIW-NUKABI it-seems-be A-JJALU-WA game-modern MA=WINDO-A.KISASA npari NNPARI or AU nperi NPERI.
( Imperative-see N-UONA note BARUA.FUPI on JUU.YA line M=STARI number 2046. )
and NA sigi SSIGI it-Passive-describe A-LIW-NUKABI ancestor "M=KALE" game-modern-of MI=WINDO-A.KISASA-AA.
bard M=SHAIRI he-describes-it A-NUKABI-A development-their MA=ENDELO-WA with NAA speech M=SEMA genealogy NASABA.

AMBA- : Subordinate clause particle.

...
...

For more explanation of the grammars and vocabularies of these languages, see their respective threads.

It's notable that = is used to separate Noun Class / Plurality prefixes from Noun Roots, though. There's about 5 noun classes and they're all lifted directly from Swahili. I usually only have one noun class so I wanted to explore that, especially with reference to what I've seen in the 1600s Massachusett Language (Algonquian) over the past 3 years.

Noun Class / Plurality = Noun Root

Normal Bantu verb morphology seems to be:

subject-tense-object-VERB.ROOT

For some reason, for my Ancient Africa Conlang, I chose:

subject-tense-VERB.ROOT-object-indirect.object

I think this defies language universals. I forget why I did it, too, and can't find notes on it. Maybe I couldn't find where to put objects in the verb chain. Maybe I was imitating something I saw in other Bantu or Non-Bantu Niger-Congo languages. I think the Indirect Object Suffix is just in there to be exotic and isn't a Niger-Congo thing. I don't remember right here if Sumerian or Early Georgian do this.

Okrand Atlantean notably follows language universals and has all these suffixes on a verb root. Maybe I wanted to break with that and try something more like Burushaski but on a verb. But otherwise, my Ancient Africa conlangs do not have so much for verb suffixes aside from the -e Subjunctive Suffix. Everything ends up as a prefix. Which I find delightful because Okrand Atlantean has all suffixes. And it's generally true to life, though I don't think Bantu or Swahili languages usually negate using verb prefixes. Though I forget.

Anyway, I tried to make this Ancient Africa conlang interesting but lack the time to explain all the features. It's mostly Swahili with some tweaks here and there to be more like other Bantu languages, occasionally Non-Bantu Niger-Congo languages, or just to be interesting. Maybe I should have spiced it up more. It was very draining looking up almost every word in the Swahili dictionary but very necessary because I study tons and tons of languages and need the Bantu experience like you can't even imagine. Something I've implied in my posts elsewhere about these conlangs.

Here's Pages B and C from Text D.

In case there's any new readers, here's the link to where I'm putting all this online. I haven't added the grammar yet for Ancient Africa Conlang, though, that's only here.

New Texts in Okrand Atlantean with an Ancient African Conlang: Medieval West Africa Texts
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2020/0 ... w=flipcard

Images for Previous Post:
New Texts in Okrand Atlantean with an Ancient Africa Conlang: Medieval West Africa Texts
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2020/0 ... w=flipcard

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Text D, Page B.


The most detailed variant explanation for sigi I found came from the late bard Wa Kamisoko from Kirina. He defined sigi fili as 'casting out doubt' and described it as an ancient test whereby combatants in Old Mali gave proof of their genealogy.

Okrand Atlantean Conlang:
Wetes-ir-tem nopih-mil yadem-mil-bey yer-tem sher
deg komtib-imik
yos Wil-tem Motesh-ag ga deg
shamad-nar-tem Pik-ekim Soweg saldup-imot.
Biyol-tem yer-e met biyol-yer-tem poret-imot
gim beshel-tem mokat-mil met tokit yohoyb-imot
yos Adlantis-tem net deg gindug-osen
ligab-tem sobin mogom-imtoh.

Ancient African Conlang:
Ma=badili-elezo naa kupita.yote habari.moja.moja muda.wa ssigi ni-li-o-tafuta.na.ku..ona-a a-li-toka-enda bbese Wwa Kkamisoko a-toka.kwa Kkirina. A-li-bainisha ssigi ffili a-wa ' cchigi-tupa shaka ' , na a-li-wasifu-a a-wa m=jaribu-a.kale a-o-toka.kwa wa=shindari mu=Mmanden wa-li-hu-nnongo muda.wa nafsi-wa.


Text D, Page C.


Those warriors too close in kinship, or who belonged to clans which had sworn alliances, were not permitted to fight each other.


The game was described as follows. The two adversaries came together over a large pot of boiling potash, sege kata. Large metal bracelets, sigi nege, were then put into the boiling potash.

Okrand Atlantean Conlang
Bidlug-osen debet
dash-bel-mebel-ag
gosh leb nish-tem kwam et-imtoh
yos ya-dut-tem basheb-imtoh
yos sob su-sob-it kwam nilas boshim-eshimtoh.

Won yihoyb-ir shilug-ag.
Shatan-en-ya dut
hagit-tem wokin-mil agish-ag lises-mil ( hagit yer )-tem bish
yug-imtoh.
Uwaled-en banim-mig wokin-mig (ben yer)
agish-tem lises-mil net
pen-eshimtoh.

Ancient Africa Conlang:

Ma=askari.hodari-le wa-o-bbaga ama wa-o-zzido vi=sheria wa-kataza-a j=ambo-le.

Ha==pa wa-li-o-sema wa-li-po-wasifu-a ma=windo. M=adui-wili wa-li-hu-kutana-wa wa-zunguka chombo-kubwa kkokodwe-aa cchigi-chemka (sege kata). Vi=madini-kuku-kubwa (sigi nege) ndipo wa-liw-muu==sogeza-a kkokodwe cchigi-chemka.


Text D, Page D.

Looks great — and thank you for including glosses this time! A couple of very quick questions/comments:

Bob wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:27 pm No prepositions, only postpositions.
( "Preposterous!?!", you may say. Well, that's the proposition and this is the exposition. )

I don’t think that’s preposterous at all — I think it’s very, very normal.

I usually only have one noun class so I wanted to explore that…

A question: how is it possible to only have one noun class? The whole point of noun classes is to have more than one of them! (Or at least that’s the impression I got from reading Aikhenvald’s Classifiers.)

Bob wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:58 pm Normal Bantu verb morphology seems to be:

subject-tense-object-VERB.ROOT

For some reason, for my Ancient Africa Conlang, I chose:

subject-tense-VERB.ROOT-object-indirect.object

I think this defies language universals.

I’m pretty sure this doesn’t defy any universals — or if it does, then I don’t remember which one(s).

bradrn wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:51 pm
I don’t think that’s preposterous at all — I think it’s very, very normal.

The "preposterous" part is supposed to be an alliterative joke.

bradrn wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:51 pm
A question: how is it possible to only have one noun class? The whole point of noun classes is to have more than one of them! (Or at least that’s the impression I got from reading Aikhenvald’s Classifiers.)

I mean that I have no noun classes and decline all nouns in the same way.

bradrn wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:51 pm
I’m pretty sure this doesn’t defy any universals — or if it does, then I don’t remember which one(s).

I think there's a linguistic universal law that says that usually if a verb has affixes agreeing with subject and object, they won't be on either side of the verb. I haven't checked Sumerian again but I just checked Early Georgian from CEWAL and it was like that. Oh, well, I should really just keep it all the way it is. I might change all the words and clauses around so it has its own Niger-Congo word and clause order, but I really shouldn't. I put enough time into it. I should maybe try to outline the general native word and clause order, but the concept of the language is straightforward enough so there's no special need.

Bob wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:26 pm

bradrn wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:51 pm
I don’t think that’s preposterous at all — I think it’s very, very normal.

The "preposterous" part is supposed to be an alliterative joke.

bradrn wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:51 pm
A question: how is it possible to only have one noun class? The whole point of noun classes is to have more than one of them! (Or at least that’s the impression I got from reading Aikhenvald’s Classifiers.)

I mean that I have no noun classes and decline all nouns in the same way.

Ah, right — thanks for clarifying these points!

bradrn wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:51 pm
I’m pretty sure this doesn’t defy any universals — or if it does, then I don’t remember which one(s).

I think there's a linguistic universal law that says that usually if a verb has affixes agreeing with subject and object, they won't be on either side of the verb.

According to WALS, there are actually quite a few languages which do this (e.g. Barbareño Chumash and Tauya) — apparently there are ‘84 languages [in their sample] which have the two person markers on opposite sides of the verb’.

I should maybe try to outline the general native word and clause order, but the concept of the language is straightforward enough so there's no special need.

I think this would be interesting — I’ve been wondering about the word order in this language.

So I finished translating all the texts into the Ancient Africa Conlang.

Now I'm up to Text D, Page I for translating them all into the Okrand Atlantean Conlang. I haven't put it all on the website yet, though. I've decided to type up all the Atlantean, then all the Ancient Africa Conlang.

I've thought about making two separate logographic writing systems for each, to show off my specialty, but this project is already very large, so everyone will have to be content with what I already have on my website or on posts to this website. Not that it would take long, you really just need a syllabary, even 9 syllabgrams would do, some diacritics, and then rules for arranging phonograms and "semantograms". Unless I wanted to make a "Demotic" logographic pseudo-conscript, then I could just scribble and add a few things here and voi-la.

It's difficult because it's confusing when to use the subordinate clause marker YOS and when to use the relative clause marker DEG. I have examples from the corpus but still feel uncertain and want to do it right.

I stopped by the major Klingon facebook group and the major Vulcan facebook group. Both were very lively.

Marc Okrand told me I can tell everybody the things he's said to me over facebook private message the past few weeks. I asked him about some essentials of Atlantean and he told me based on his memory and what he can see of my corpus, dictionary, and grammar.

...

I should give a quick summary, from memory:

The "Sumerian" quote from the movie is not by him. Any match between it and Atlantean grammar is a coincidence.

Atlantean has 5 phonemic vowels.

He doesn't remember there being any irregular verbs or multiple noun or verb paradigms, only one. Nor any noun classes.

Deg, bet, yos:

Deg : Marks relative clauses.

Yos: Marks subordinate clauses.

Bet: Marks relative clauses treated as the object of a verb.

Does anyone have any questions for him?

I also asked him if kwetip means "go" but he wants me to list the occurences and maybe that would be too much work for me.

He looked over my corpus and dictionary and said it looks quite good from what he remembers.

Oh, he also said that he thinks the measurement words from Subterranean Tours were not made by him, along with a lot of small words from the lesser sources, like kids' books. ( But I think he misremembers most of this because all these words are consistent with the words he made, even in a technical way which would be hard to imitate. )

I'll share the quotes probably within the next week.

I'm not sure if I'll ask him much more because that's the basics and I don't want to bother him. If he lost all his notes, that's that, and all the little details I've already handled. I thanked him for his responses and asked if I could share them. I will eventually make a webpage for this on my website.

...

I've had trouble figuring out what DEG, YOS, and BET were over the years. I have maybe suspected they were merely relative, subordinate and relative clause markers. But maybe not, I forget. I've though they were more like Klingon's such clause markers or something else like that.

I'm typing up the draft translation I made but I'm not sure how to handle gerunds. I like to add -e but there seem to be no gerunds in the corpus.

I asked Okrand about this and I think he said the language doesn't have any gerunds or other non-finite verb forms.

I might keep my gerunds in -e and participles or whatever, just in imitation of Latin. Plus, as far as I can remember, all other languages I've studied have also been like that. I've tried to look it up on Wikipedia and my Intro Linguistic Typology book by Whaley but it's all not clear enough and I don't have time. But at least now I know about the WALS website. Though I don't have much time to look up every little thing on it. Hmmm.

I think Pakuni is easier than Atlantean because it has more like English clause order. But I forget. Chinese is very analytic like English and yet puts its prepositional phrases (?) in quite different order. I try to spice up Pakuni in other ways. I have thought about giving it Classical Chinese like grammatical particles (which are very weird, other languages do not have such things) but I haven't had much success in that.