Zompist Bboard Again

Frislander wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:40 am Speaking anecdotally, and based mostly on the evidence of my own personal experience as a person with Asperger's and my limited exposure to other individuals on the spectrum, we generally seem to be aware that we're lacking something in the social skills department, particularly when we find ourselves doing something not generally considered acceptable in social situations through not knowing better and people immediately react badly, which I think is the main caus of anxiety about social situations, certainly for me - the fear that we're going to do something wrong and make people angry at us.

I can understand that, being autistic myself. That pretty much happens to be why I generally don't post on the forums nowadays unless I have something substantial or something I'm satisfied with ready, and even then it takes me a good hour or so just to get it looking just right. (It's part of something I'm hoping to work out with my psychologist.)

Honestly thinking about it now, I think I understand him a bit better. But it's hard to not cringe at some of the things he says and does without filter.

I feel so normie; my immediate reaction is "he doesn't care, he's being abrasive on purpose, etc.", when on reflection I'd like to think it's not true because that's how people have judged me in the past (even recently, though not generally).

In December 2001 i met someone my age who had high functioning autism. He lived in his own little world. I remember him asking me if I had heard that the Twin Towers in New York City had been knocked down. To him, 9/11 was just a trivial thing that one might or might not have heard of. And yes, he was serious.... it wasnt an attempt to insult me. I learned something from him .... politics is a source of stress, and ignorance is bliss. But Im getting off topic here.

What I mean by this anecdote is that people with autism are as different as apples and chairs ... knowing that someone has autism may sometimes explain their behavior, but social interaction that connects well with one autistic person wont work for another. After all, I have myself as an example too. Most autistics arent really much for social interaction, but Ive been chatting on IRC for 20 years and now Im on other social media platforms as well. But others really are better off alone or in a "response optional" situation like a blog. I remember one other classmate who sat with me at lunch and talked like a business executive, ...on the first day matter-of-factly saying something about his hobby and ending with "but I dont have good social skills." We got along well because i didnt try to open him up to small talk or other things ... I mostly listened and he mostly talked, and both of us were fine that way.

I dont know. Im not claiming to have the magic knife that will cut through all of this while everyone else stands around watching me with awe. Im just sharing my thoughts.

perhaps I should also add that there are many other social disorders besides autism, and that Bob (afaik) never claimed to have autism himself.

I tried not to actively antagonise Bob, since I felt there was probably something 'neurodiverse' going on there; and that perhaps there was something valid in his defence about cultural difference (or that rather, it wasn't my place to assert that there wasn't).

But that doesn't mean rules of interaction shouldn't apply. My brother is profoundly autistic. A key focus of his care is helping him not to do things which are deleterious to himself or antisocial to others. If he didn't have that care, he might happily, for instance, run naked in the street shouting "A lady!" at female passers-by. That he is encouraged and aided not to do such things is what allows him to continue living in the community.

If ASD does explain any of Bob's behaviour, showing him clearly the negative effects of his actions and laying down guidelines should have aided him. Seeing the way he has taken it (with his recent posts on the CBB) I hazard that there were other things going on, including relishing treating people in exactly the ways they have clearly requested not to be treated.

Anyway, water under the bridge.

sasasha wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:55 am Anyway, water under the bridge.

Best thing said in a while. Since Larry isn't here to either defend himself or reveal private health information, I think the armchair diagnosis ought to be left to the professionals. I don't think wild speculation furthers the discussion either, and quite possibly only muddies the waters.

elemtilas wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:18 am

sasasha wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:55 am Anyway, water under the bridge.

Best thing said in a while. Since Larry isn't here to either defend himself or reveal private health information, I think the armchair diagnosis ought to be left to the professionals. I don't think wild speculation furthers the discussion either, and quite possibly only muddies the waters.

Ok, agreed.

I did interact with him a couple of times, trying to make constructive comments, but it didn't really go anywhere. I think this was unavoidable. Sorry to everyone who's had to stress over this.

I agree that diagnoses of Bob aren't too useful. Still, I appreciate people with ASD telling their stories.

Just in case in helps anyone else's social anxiety: Bob was banned for his threatening/abusive behavior, not for being weird. And no one else is acting anything like him.

zompist wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:34 pm Just in case in helps anyone else's social anxiety: Bob was banned for his threatening/abusive behavior, not for being weird.

Well, thank goodness! You've have to ban everyone, then!

elemtilas wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:09 pm Well, thank goodness! You've have to ban everyone, then!

Beat me to it.

I have no idea who this is, but I got a guy in my DMs on facebook because I made a group in 2006 for members of the ZBB to facilitate us adding each other on there. Said you called him racist (or that you were being racist?? i dunno i only skimmed it) and thought I was affiliated with you or something. I can only assume this was him. (I deleted the convo because my messenger app thought I'd want to contact him again)

finlay wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:35 am I have no idea who this is, but I got a guy in my DMs on facebook because I made a group in 2006 for members of the ZBB to facilitate us adding each other on there. Said you called him racist (or that you were being racist?? i dunno i only skimmed it) and thought I was affiliated with you or something. I can only assume this was him. (I deleted the convo because my messenger app thought I'd want to contact him again)

Yep, that sounds like Bob. I find it concerning that he still hasn’t stopped doing his ‘researches’ — and not only that, he’s now doing them on people he hasn’t even interacted with before.

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:41 pm

finlay wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:35 am I have no idea who this is, but I got a guy in my DMs on facebook because I made a group in 2006 for members of the ZBB to facilitate us adding each other on there. Said you called him racist (or that you were being racist?? i dunno i only skimmed it) and thought I was affiliated with you or something. I can only assume this was him. (I deleted the convo because my messenger app thought I'd want to contact him again)

Yep, that sounds like Bob. I find it concerning that he still hasn’t stopped doing his ‘researches’ — and not only that, he’s now doing them on people he hasn’t even interacted with before.

So.... what went down here? All i see is scorched earth.

Some guy named 'Bob' started writing long, sort of rambling posts. Sometimes, he posted these in their own thread, sometimes in response to others' people threads (which could be a little annoying).

They were usually long rambling rants on various subjects including Atlantean, Pakuni (I gather that's a 70s cartoon?), logographic writing systems... The real annoying bits occasional personal attacks, and the constant self-aggrandizing claims of being an expert in linguistics -- he was very proud of his BA in linguistics -- writing system, or other language-related topics.
Over time, the posts got increasingly longer, even harder to understand and the attacks got weirder. In some he insisted on being complimented on at some length at er, (I don't quite remember what it was, but it wasn't terribly good, I'm afraid), generally he complained about his genius being ignored, very much like a B movie villain. Also, the insults and personal attacks got noticeably nastier.
Anyway, long story short, plenty of people did show interest in what he said, did try to help him get better feedback. Others got annoyed and said so, which was 100% justified at this point. In any case, neither reaction helped much, and the posts got increasingly weirder and agressive.
This apparently ended with him threatening people by PM, and of course he got himself banned after that.

I think most of his posts were deleted -- he was often spamming other people's threads, and the posts were mostly illegible.

He did say something about conlangers in general being racist at one point, though as the accusation really came out of the blue, I have no idea what he meant by that.

You forgot the bit where he started ‘researching’ everyone, i.e. trying to find out everyone’s real names, where they live etc., because he had some mad suspicion that we’ve been following him around on the Internet for years continuously insulting his great and magnificent work. Which is now what finlay is experiencing.

Ares Land wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:53 pm In some he insisted on being complimented on at some length at er, (I don't quite remember what it was, but it wasn't terribly good, I'm afraid), generally he complained about his genius being ignored, very much like a B movie villain.

Let me remind you: he said he wanted ‘full and unsurpassing praise’. Can’t find the original post, but that sort of phrase tends to stick in the memory.

EDIT: I managed to find the post. Turns out Bob actually said: ‘I would recommend tempering any criticism with abundant and probably surpassing praise’.

Ares Land wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:53 pm I think most of his posts were deleted -- he was often spamming other people's threads, and the posts were mostly illegible.

No, the topics he posted are still there. Many of them have dropped down to page 2 by now.

He'd post to other people's topics, something like "Great job!" and then half a dozen paragraphs about himself, what he read last, what he might be working on-- pretty much a how-to on how not to engage with other people's work. That stuff I've deleted.

Found some more undeleted Bobbery in need of getting rid of (or at least desperately requiring cleaning up): https://www.verduria.org/viewtopic.php? ... 310#p30613. The first paragraph or two actually starts somewhat on-topic (in this case, Amusing Language Names), but then gets more and more off-topic until eventually he ends up quoting Simple Simon. How he got there I’ll never know.

bradrn wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:12 amThe first paragraph or two actually starts somewhat on-topic (in this case, Amusing Language Names), but then gets more and more off-topic until eventually he ends up quoting Simple Simon. How he got there I’ll never know.

That's just the awesomeness that was Bob, Bobbing his Bobbery in perpetual Bobbitude.

And I found some more of it: https://www.verduria.org/viewtopic.php? ... 403#p30421. Sadly, this is one of his less coherent ones, though quotable as always: ‘What a clever post this is and how vast is your reading’; ‘My research in language science doesn't involve … the grammar of any given language’; ‘I only read the first post to this thread. I didn't read any of the others except that I read the most recent one by Whimmy McWhammy’ (‽‽‽‽‽)

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:25 pm Let me remind you: he said he wanted ‘full and unsurpassing praise’. Can’t find the original post, but that sort of phrase tends to stick in the memory.

EDIT: I managed to find the post. Turns out Bob actually said: ‘I would recommend tempering any criticism with abundant and probably surpassing praise’.

As a lurker who looked at a few of his posts before giving up because it felt like a car crash unfolding, I believe that was the moment I went from "this guy is a bit quirky and likes to ramble a bit about himself" to "there's something seriously wrong about the way this guy is acting"

Sol717 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:56 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:25 pm Let me remind you: he said he wanted ‘full and unsurpassing praise’. Can’t find the original post, but that sort of phrase tends to stick in the memory.

EDIT: I managed to find the post. Turns out Bob actually said: ‘I would recommend tempering any criticism with abundant and probably surpassing praise’.

As a lurker who looked at a few of his posts before giving up because it felt like a car crash unfolding, I believe that was the moment I went from "this guy is a bit quirky and likes to ramble a bit about himself" to "there's something seriously wrong about the way this guy is acting"

As someone who didn't pay that close attention to Bob's posts, I only crossed that line when I learned, from the early posts in this thread, that he had treathened and doxxed people.