Zompist Bboard Again

I never noticed that "Baroque hallway" is the universal visual stand in for "peace summit," but it works.

We'll have plenty of time later for the whole "Wait, Verdurians invented the anti-lock brake before they invented the resistence-less exercise bike?!?" game. But a quick question about method. I'm sure you're planning to make things "make sense" in terms of how ideas progress and how one invention builds on a previous one, similar to your history of chemistry article. But to what extent are you planning to "break" your own model? Will there be random chance in Verdurian future-history? Anything that would intentionally strike readers as flagrantly unrealistic?

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:45 am I never noticed that "Baroque hallway" is the universal visual stand in for "peace summit," but it works.

Heh!

We'll have plenty of time later for the whole "Wait, Verdurians invented the anti-lock brake before they invented the resistence-less exercise bike?!?" game. But a quick question about method. I'm sure you're planning to make things "make sense" in terms of how ideas progress and how one invention builds on a previous one, similar to your history of chemistry article. But to what extent are you planning to "break" your own model? Will there be random chance in Verdurian future-history? Anything that would intentionally strike readers as flagrantly unrealistic?

For my framework, I've kept pretty closely to terrestrial chronology. It may be coincidence that (say) the light bulb and the telephone were invented at about the same time. Or maybe not! Both kind of fit late-19C technology: a robust industrial system where individual tinkerers could make major breakthroughs, but had access to machine tools and a wide range of inputs, and where people had already gone far with electricity.

I've also tried to align breakthroughs with major wars, as that tends to spur development.

I'll try to throw in a few surprises. One wildcard is of course the iliu, who already had a lot of modern technology long ago. They have generally not shared it, but sometimes it's in their best interest. (E.g. they help improve shipbuilding technology so ships stop blowing up or leaking oil into their habitat.)

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:23 pmAnd the icelani, if they are the Almean equivalent of australopithecines, they are essentially just upright-walking apes, no way smarter than chimps or gorillas, because that's what australopithecines probably actually were. They are very smart by "beastly" standards, but just as incapable to industrialize as chimps are.

I'm looking forward to the zoological work of Ihana Dobreperë.

I'd like to see how Almean historical linguistics advances. Just how much crackpottery will there be when they turn their gaze towards the non-Eastern languages of Almea?

I want to see Verdurians try to demonstrate that every language is related to Kebreni, using lists of similar words.

A new page is up, giving the Verdurian words for modern/future technology:

https://www.zompist.com/vermodern.htm

I am adding these to the dictionary too.

zompist wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:33 am A new page is up, giving the Verdurian words for modern/future technology:

https://www.zompist.com/vermodern.htm

I am adding these to the dictionary too.

I’ve just had a look at this, and there’s some really interesting stuff there! Some observations, in no particular order:

• ‘Otherworld’? ‘Otherworld travel’? Could Almean physics work differently to ours? (On the other hand, all the words under ‘Physics’ are readily recognisable, which suggests the opposite…)
• It looks like Dhekhnam is starting to take a more active role in things — they’re the source of ‘helicopter’, ‘proton ’, ‘Planck’s constant’.
• celhunsirise letkřumbil ‘intercontinental missile’ is apparently from ‘Golds’ — could this be a new language coming soon‽ Certainly, I can’t find Golds in the Almeopedia. (There’s also the mysterious ‘DU’ which seems to occur as a source for a bunch of names, but I’m assuming that’s just an abbreviation for an already-known place.)
• Why are there different words for ‘c’ and ‘speed of light’? They should be the same.
• The ‘Math’ section seems surprisingly limited: there’s words for ‘binary’, ‘hexadecimal’, ‘floating point’, ‘complex number’, but not for ‘integral’, ‘derivative’, ‘matrix’, ‘function’, ‘coordinate’, ‘algebra’, ‘manifold’, ‘(co)sine’ (which I would argue are far more important terms). Really this seems more like a ‘computer science’ section than anything else.
• I like the etymology of bidracon ‘molecule < indivisible’; in our world, the same etymology resulted in ‘atom’ instead.
• Apparently Adobe sells its products not just world-wide but multiverse-wide: Verdurian has a word for ‘PDF’! (Perhaps this is another interdimensional slip? Some sorcerer messed up their spell again and accidentally summoned a bunch of programmers from Adobe?)

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:59 amWhy are there different words for ‘c’ and ‘speed of light’? They should be the same.

Why? It's by and large a historical accident that we call c "the speed of light". It's really "the speed of massless particles", as all massless particles travel at c.

KathTheDragon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:58 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:59 amWhy are there different words for ‘c’ and ‘speed of light’? They should be the same.

Why? It's by and large a historical accident that we call c "the speed of light". It's really "the speed of massless particles", as all massless particles travel at c.

Um… I’m not sure I see why that’s relevant? I was just saying that c and ‘the speed of light’ are the same thing, so it makes no sense to say that ‘c’ translates to bidbo while ‘the speed of light’ is ruk selte. (Or, if those terms are synonymous, as with English ‘c’ vs ‘the speed of light’, it would be nice to at least have a note of that!)

zompist wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:33 am A new page is up, giving the Verdurian words for modern/future technology:

https://www.zompist.com/vermodern.htm

I am adding these to the dictionary too.

Cool!

A simple one I like a lot is pol for 'cell nucleus' (Keb. 'capital city').

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:11 am Um… I’m not sure I see why that’s relevant? I was just saying that c and ‘the speed of light’ are the same thing, so it makes no sense to say that ‘c’ translates to bidbo while ‘the speed of light’ is ruk selte. (Or, if those terms are synonymous, as with English ‘c’ vs ‘the speed of light’, it would be nice to at least have a note of that!)

They're not quite synonymous. c is the speed of light in a vacuum; but you can talk about the speed of light in a given medium, v. (Water, for instance. Or glass). The difference is important in optics: n = c / v is the index of refraction.

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:59 am [*] ‘Otherworld’? ‘Otherworld travel’? Could Almean physics work differently to ours? (On the other hand, all the words under ‘Physics’ are readily recognisable, which suggests the opposite…)

Hint: Why do people from Earth occasionally turn up on Almea? And teaser: if you apply the same process from Almea, do you end up on Earth, or somewhere else?

There’s also the mysterious ‘DU’ which seems to occur as a source for a bunch of names, but I’m assuming that’s just an abbreviation for an already-known place.

This is near-future, so I'll explain it: DU = Democratic Union. It's comprised of Šura, Belšai, and the local elcari.

[*] Why are there different words for ‘c’ and ‘speed of light’? They should be the same.

They're not in English!

[*] The ‘Math’ section seems surprisingly limited: there’s words for ‘binary’, ‘hexadecimal’, ‘floating point’, ‘complex number’, but not for ‘integral’, ‘derivative’, ‘matrix’, ‘function’, ‘coordinate’, ‘algebra’, ‘manifold’, ‘(co)sine’ (which I would argue are far more important terms).

Most of those words exist already in the Verdurian lexicon, because they're medieval, not modern!

zompist wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:56 pm

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:59 am [*] ‘Otherworld’? ‘Otherworld travel’? Could Almean physics work differently to ours? (On the other hand, all the words under ‘Physics’ are readily recognisable, which suggests the opposite…)

Hint: Why do people from Earth occasionally turn up on Almea? And teaser: if you apply the same process from Almea, do you end up on Earth, or somewhere else?

Oh, good, I was hoping that would be it!

Ares Land wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:18 pm

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:11 am Um… I’m not sure I see why that’s relevant? I was just saying that c and ‘the speed of light’ are the same thing, so it makes no sense to say that ‘c’ translates to bidbo while ‘the speed of light’ is ruk selte. (Or, if those terms are synonymous, as with English ‘c’ vs ‘the speed of light’, it would be nice to at least have a note of that!)

They're not quite synonymous. c is the speed of light in a vacuum; but you can talk about the speed of light in a given medium, v. (Water, for instance. Or glass). The difference is important in optics: n = c / v is the index of refraction.

Oops, yes, you’re quite right: c is a constant, but the speed of light isn’t.

Very fun read, both from a conlang and a technological progress point of view! Some tantalizing history tidbits, too! Looks like Xurno discovers fission and invents the A-bomb in 3650, and twenty years later, the DU discovers fission and invents the H-bomb. Sounds like a possible nuclear war, judging by the two nations’ close proximity and the fact that both the terms “fascism” and “communism” are from Xurnese, and the latter apparently with a negative connotation. A fascist Xurnese state and a communist state growing out of Belšai both seem very plausible.

Looking forward to more! Hoping I find a reliable income stream so I can join your Patreon.

Yeah, looks like Xurno may be in for some turmoil. I had wondered how long the Revaudo state would last.
I also liked the references to Bidbo’s number and Nošcerey’s number; two intriguing individuals who already had Almeopedia pages.

How does magic interact with digital and post-digital technologies and industrial economies of scale?

(Could we have the old wordpress theme back? Please? I can't stand the hamburger logo and sliding popup window!)

Nachtswalbe wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:28 pm How does magic interact with digital and post-digital technologies and industrial economies of scale?

Not well, because it's not predictable. But there are ways to use it anyway...

Mornche Geddick wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:59 pm (Could we have the old wordpress theme back? Please? I can't stand the hamburger logo and sliding popup window!)

I changed it again. It's a different theme, but it doesn't break the pictures and has no hamburgers.

zompist wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:28 pm

Nachtswalbe wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:28 pm How does magic interact with digital and post-digital technologies and industrial economies of scale?

Not well, because it's not predictable. But there are ways to use it anyway...

An idea I once had (for a conworld I since have abandoned) was that technology outstrips magic because magic, unlike technology, cannot be mass-produced. Also, magic is unreliable: it fails all too often. So people thought, "Sure, magic can do that, but our alchemists can make only so many magic items, and they are bleeping expensive! Is there a surer and cheaper way to do it without magic?"