Zompist Bboard Again

Some Discworld thoughts:

For some reason I've never been a fan of Moving Pictures. It's not that it isn't well-written--and it includes a bunch of characters I love, like Detritus--but it just doesn't grab me the way many of his other books do. I haven't read it for quite awhile, but in my memory, I don't remember it having a particularly compelling plot, more like a series of Amusing Scenes Related to Early Moviemaking strung together with aliens from another dimension or whatever the villain ended up being.

Rincewind--thoroughly agree with you both. Rincewind is by far my least favorite protagonist of the major sub-series. He very much does just feel like a travelogue vehicle.

And Night Watch is one of my favorites, although I can only read it when I'm in a particular mood. The revolutionary sort of mood.

And I have really got to look up Ash (but not yet! I have to read Way of Kings first)

I've read the Fifth Elephant, too. That was good. I really like Lady Sybille as a character, partly because I know people rather like her. That was possibly the last one I read "as they came out". I know I've not read Night Watch. I remember it being out and thinking I should read it, because the Watch books tend to be good but I was a bit burnt out by then. Thief of Time might have been my breaking off point... I don't know, really. Not that it matters. Feet of Clay is probably my favourite Watch book because of the red herrings lying on top of each other. It's a genuinely good mystery novel with a genuinely compelling parallel story.

Salmoneus wrote:I always got the impression Pterry was inspired by himself - he'd write a throwaway line in one book, and it would inspire him to come back and write a whole subplot, or even a whole novel, later on.

I meant within a book. Wyrd Sisters drops an awful lot of hints that Verence is who he is by talking about his parents in very throwaway lines that look like nattering.

When I've finished or given up on LOTR, I'm on to Small Gods, which I remember finding a bit boring but other people saying is very good. I was probably about 14 when I read it so it's possible I missed a few bits, but it's also possible I just didn't like any of the characters and therefore zoned out.

Moving Pictures wasn't great, but there is a slight tonal shift in it, I think. It's the first The Disc As I Remember It book that is mainly about the setting rather than witches or watchmen.

Rincewind is my favourite though.

Gulliver wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:14 am

I meant within a book. Wyrd Sisters drops an awful lot of hints that Verence is who he is by talking about his parents in very throwaway lines that look like nattering. [/quote]
Oh yes, nothing happens in these books without being carefully planned and prepared for...

When I've finished or given up on LOTR, I'm on to Small Gods, which I remember finding a bit boring but other people saying is very good. I was probably about 14 when I read it so it's possible I missed a few bits, but it's also possible I just didn't like any of the characters and therefore zoned out.

Doesn't that mean skipping Reaper Man and Witches Abroad?

[Small Gods is certainly one of the best, though certain religious readers might not like it (even I think he overdoes it toward the end). Witches Abroad has one of the best endings, but it's stuck on to a really weak middle, imo. Reaper Man is divisive: I adore it, but some people hate it, because it's a total mess.]

Moving Pictures wasn't great, but there is a slight tonal shift in it, I think. It's the first The Disc As I Remember It book that is mainly about the setting rather than witches or watchmen.

Yes; I think that in particular there's a huge shift, at least in hindsight, between the ankh-morpork of G!G! and before (a sword-and-sorcery entrepot that's been given some modern touches in order to enable all the film noir parody) and the ankh-morpork and environs of MP and after (a basically modern, 'realistic' city that retains some fantasy touches here and there).

Salmoneus wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:50 amDoesn't that mean skipping Reaper Man and Witches Abroad?

Thanks. Good call. I had them in the wrong order.

mèþru wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:14 am Rincewind is my favourite though.

That's okay! I'm sure you've got a lovely personality.

Actually, a friend of mine really likes him and had the very surreal and wonderful experience of Tony Robinson, who did the books on tape (which she listened to), walk up behind her and start doing the voices when she and her brother were looking at some Discworld stuff in a shop when she was about twelve.

As of this morning, I am exactly ¾ of the way through Klaus Mann's Mephisto. Not the most compelling read ever, but I like the prose and the account of allowing oneself to be coopted by fascists as they come to power is sadly relevant.

On a whim, I recently acquired a copy of Wiliam Owen Roberts' Y Pla, which is a historical novel about the arrival of the Black Death in Wales. I'm not sure I'll actually read it all (though there's a reassuring amount of dialogue) but I like the way he writes. (It's a little weird to have characters speaking colloquial modern Welsh in a mediaeval setting, but I'm getting used to it.)

It got me interested in Welsh pop again and I discovered a Welsh hip-hop duo who call themselves "Cofi Bach a Tew Shady" and don't totally suck. Still I'd rather listen to Le Kov, the new electropop album from Gwenno entirely in Cornish.

Ahhh, Reaper Man! Love that one. I understand why some people might not like it, but I don't feel that way at all. I think it's marvelous. Death is such a great character.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:58 amStill I'd rather listen to Le Kov, the new electropop album from Gwenno entirely in Cornish.

She got a fair bit of radio play on BBC 6Music here. Decent album!

Gulliver wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:36 pm

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:58 amStill I'd rather listen to Le Kov, the new electropop album from Gwenno entirely in Cornish.

She got a fair bit of radio play of BBC 6Music here. Decent album!

That's nice to hear. I'm really kind of impressed what a couple people can do with a laptop nowadays. You listen to something like Llwybr Llaethog and it sounds so painfully amateurish by comparison.

alynnidalar wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:06 pm Ahhh, Reaper Man! Love that one. I understand why some people might not like it, but I don't feel that way at all. I think it's marvelous. Death is such a great character.

Indeed. IMO, the Death novella in that book is possibly the best thing Pratchett wrote. But the Fresh Start Club stuff is a nice idea that's better in the memory than on the page because there's not really enough of it there, and the shopping trolley stuff is some of the weirdest material he ever attempted; and tonally the three parts clash wildly with one another, and narratively they're almost completely unrelated, and thematically they only make sense together via an appreciation of some postmodernist concepts.

As you say, it's marvellous. It's one of my favourites*. But it's also a complete mess. And a lot of people can't cope with that, it seems.

*Off the top of my head, I think my list of top-five favourites, after an almost-complete reread, might be:
The Fifth Elephant > Reaper Man > Night Watch > Lords and Ladies > Pyramids, and then maybe sixth place would be a battle between Feet of Clay, Hogfather, Maskerade and Small Gods. But to be honest, depending on mood, most of the ones on that list could change positions. [and if I were ranking quality per se, rather than personal taste, I'd downgrade TFE, Reaper Man and Pyramids and upgrade Small Gods, I think.]

Salmoneus wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:29 pmThe Fifth Elephant > Reaper Man > Night Watch > Lords and Ladies > Pyramids, and then maybe sixth place would be a battle between Feet of Clay, Hogfather, Maskerade and Small Gods. But to be honest, depending on mood, most of the ones on that list could change positions. [and if I were ranking quality per se, rather than personal taste, I'd downgrade TFE, Reaper Man and Pyramids and upgrade Small Gods, I think.]

Pyramids I enjoyed but I did not love. I would have liked to see Pteppic again in another book, but I gather that never happened. Reaper Man I really enjoyed. Lords and Ladies is good fun from start to end and one of the more memorable, in my opinion. Warrior Queen Magrat and the combat-enabled morris dancers, together, are wonderful. I'll always have a place for Witches Abroad in my heart as it was the first I read. Hogfather is another of my favourites; Susan Sto Helit goes from a rather slight character in Soul Music to fleshed-out half-human-half-abstract-concept. She does a suffer mildly from Snarky Badass Syndrome as can happen with Pratchett characters it's a fun ride.

Oh, I missed a Discworld discussion. Never mind, I'll just pretend it's still going on.

So far, I've read Jingo, Night Watch, and the early books in order of publication from the start to Moving Pictures, after which I lost interest for some reason. I had fallen in love with the series when I grabbed Jingo at random out of a train station bookstore rack because I needed something to keep me from being bored during a volunteer shift I was about to start. It had me in stitches, and made me want to read the rest of the series. It's so well-written that I don't even mind that I politically disagree with the pacifist message.

Speaking of politics in Pratchett, does anyone else have the impression that Sourcery and Pyramids have basically exact opposite apparent messages? I mean, the main message of Sourcery appears to be "leave everything as it is, and don't try anything new", and then along comes Pyramids and has something very much like that as the attitude of the main villain. Kinda weird to think that these are books by the same author, in the same series.

I read most of the early books as just being entertaining than having some intended message for the reader, especially as Pterry was known for being against literary criticism (one of the reasons I love his works).

Raphael wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:32 am Speaking of politics in Pratchett, does anyone else have the impression that Sourcery and Pyramids have basically exact opposite apparent messages? I mean, the main message of Sourcery appears to be "leave everything as it is, and don't try anything new", and then along comes Pyramids and has something very much like that as the attitude of the main villain. Kinda weird to think that these are books by the same author, in the same series.

I thought Sourcery was more "it is bad to abuse power (or children) or rule by tyranny", rather like Pyramids' "it is bad to abuse power or rule by tyranny" but I agree that they're not exactly allegorical works. I think the message in both is, if anything, only the baddies try to take over for selfish ends and if you do this, you're probably a baddie.

Vijay wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:18 pm

MacAnDàil wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:02 pm

Vijay wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:21 am I've been listening to a lot of Salil Chowdhury at work. That means lots of Bengali, Hindi, and Malayalam, plus I think two songs each in Gujarati and Tamil and one song each in Oriya and Telugu. I miss my precious Turkish barsongs and Iranian pop(ish) songs. And Afghan and Tajik songs.

Thank you for mentioning his music. It seems particularly interesting.

No problem, and I'm glad to hear you're interested!

I listened to song by him

Which one, if you don't mind me asking? I'm curious as to whether it's one I've heard before. Most of the ones I'm familiar with are either from some Malayalam movies or songs with those same tunes in other languages.

I also forgot to mention a song of his in Assamese that I listened to as well (listed as "Mon possuar" on salilda.com and sung by his wife, Sabita).

and bookmarked a website of his music.

salilda.com? That's the one I always use at work.

I found salilda.com, which seems quite complete, and listened to his earliest songs first, partly because they're the earliest and partly because they are in a theme and style that seems particularly interesting to me.

It's sort of interesting to me sometimes how he ended up using the same tunes for songs that were about entirely different things depending on the language. For example, "Jonmobhoomi" is one of his earliest songs as I understand it, but while it's a patriotic song in the original Bengali, the lyrics to the Malayalam song with the same tune sound more like a Christian evangelical song. It's also pretty interesting to me how the tune resembles "John Brown's Body."

There is actually at least one (somewhat interesting) mistake on that website (plus some broken links, although I think YouTube etc. make this less of a problem these days ). The song listed here as "Dachhin dachhin" is actually not by Salil Chowdhury at all but rather simply an excerpt of "Zachem, Zachem," a Russian song recorded by Georgian singer Irma Sokhadze in 1967 when she was still a child. Also sometimes, not everything is cross-referenced; for example, "Amare Anganiye Avsar" on this page isn't cross-referenced with "Gonga Gongar Toronge" (or its Hindi counterpart "Ganga ki Bhari God Mein").

I watched this weekend Chimes of Midnight, and it instantly became a favourite.

French:
Rewatched La Doublure yesterday.
English:
Mr. Holmes the day before. I liked both of them.

One of my favorite evangelical Christian songs in any language, "Nzapa a iri mbi" in Sango:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9N87XtaDfo

I watched all of Australian BC's political satire videos and added the ones from movies I watched to my playlist