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Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 5:56 pm
by fusijui
Tropylium wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 4:56 pm
I'm passing by this thread while reading something applicable, so here's an example given in IPA:
Xaːnædn̩ʲ kyrtʃ irnæː. Neg ykʏ̆sn̩ kʉːg neg kʉːn ysʏ̆næːsn̩ʲ tataːd̥ gøbdɛːd̥ bæːdɐɢ̥ bolnæː.
"Odaː ykʏ̆dʒ-od̥sn̩ kʉːg gøbdɛːd̥ bæːxɐ, jaːksn muː xøwtæː kʉːnbtʃ?"
"Ʉːnlæː daln̩ tawn̩ arslɐŋ ørtæː bilæːw, 'endr̩ øgnæːw', 'maŋguːr øgnæːw' gɛgeːd̥wædʒ ykʷdʒodw̩. Aʃuːɣaːn aptʃ bæːnæːw."
"Enə̆ kʉːg nykn̩dn̩ʲ dartʃkŏ, bi møŋgiːtʃɪnʲ øksʏ̆w!" genæː.
Daln̩ tawn̩ arslɐŋ møŋgæːn awaːd̥ saːkɐ̆ kʉːg nykn̩dʏ̆ dardʒɛːnæː.
Note that some of this is phonetic rather than phonemic (and for ‹a› read ɑ).
Mongolian.
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:32 pm
by bradrn
Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 3:41 pm
ɲā pjāŋ tə̀màŋ mā. ɲā kúʔ và. çwè də̀ pɨ̀. àŋjā. àŋjā mjɛ́màŋkɔ̄ n̩tū. n̩tū mjɛ́màŋkɔ̄ tʰái n̩dì kāŋ. tʰái tʰàŋ sànà.
tʰáŋʔ də̀ ʃwì də́ʔ plū plà, plū pí plà. ʃwì də́ʔ plū plà plā bə̀tà plà plū plà àŋ jɛ́ŋ, àŋ kə̀mwàŋ, ú θì, àŋ θàŋ θà. pʰúʔ də̀ pʰā nāŋ lə̀kwālò, nāŋ lə̀kwālò də̀ àŋ lə̀kwālò. ɲāpū àŋ lə̀kwālò mɛ̀ wì. plū plà àŋ θàŋ θà kə̀làŋ kúʔ, tʰàŋ jàŋtáʔ bōŋ, ú θì, àŋ jɛ́ŋ. plū plà ʃò sə̀ɲwɛ̀ váŋ kə̄lō. plū plà lō váŋ tàpī bà. àŋ lò jɛ́ŋ, ú lò θì.
Based on the presence of /θ/, and the fact that this is Sino-Tibetan but non-Lolo-Burmese, I’m guessing that this is Karenic?
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:33 pm
by Nortaneous
bradrn wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 8:32 pm
Based on the presence of /θ/, and the fact that this is Sino-Tibetan but non-Lolo-Burmese, I’m guessing that this is Karenic?
yes
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 11:19 pm
by bradrn
Nortaneous wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 10:33 pm
bradrn wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 8:32 pm
Based on the presence of /θ/, and the fact that this is Sino-Tibetan but non-Lolo-Burmese, I’m guessing that this is Karenic?
yes
Alright then. So based on PHOIBLE data, I’m guessing Sgaw Karen, since it appears to be the only Karenic language with /θ/. PHOIBLE isn’t terribly good for this — it only has three Karenic languages — but it’s the best resource I’ve got.
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 12:08 am
by Nortaneous
bradrn wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 11:19 pm
Alright then. So based on PHOIBLE data, I’m guessing Sgaw Karen, since it appears to be the only Karenic language with /θ/. PHOIBLE isn’t terribly good for this — it only has three Karenic languages — but it’s the best resource I’ve got.
no - PHOIBLE's coverage of Sino-Tibetan is in general not great
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 12:10 am
by bradrn
Nortaneous wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 12:08 am
bradrn wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 11:19 pm
Alright then. So based on PHOIBLE data, I’m guessing Sgaw Karen, since it appears to be the only Karenic language with /θ/. PHOIBLE isn’t terribly good for this — it only has three Karenic languages — but it’s the best resource I’ve got.
no - PHOIBLE's coverage of Sino-Tibetan is in general not great
I thought not. Unfortunately the Grammar Pile only has two Karenic grammars — one of which is from the 1800s — and I can’t seem to find any others easily online. I guess I’ll just have to keep looking then.
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 2:17 am
by bradrn
Pwo Karen then? According to
this, it appears to have about the right phonology (although it appears to have implosives rather than voiced plosives — perhaps a transcription issue).
EDIT: Looking at that link again, the vowel system seems to be a bit more elaborate than the one in your quote, so I’m a bit less sure of my guess now.
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 12:46 pm
by Tropylium
Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 5:48 pm
Tropylium wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 4:56 pm
I'm passing by this thread while reading something applicable, so here's an example given in IPA:
Xaːnædn̩ʲ kyrtʃ irnæː. Neg ykʏ̆sn̩ kʉːg neg kʉːn ysʏ̆næːsn̩ʲ tataːd̥ gøbdɛːd̥ bæːdɐɢ̥ bolnæː.
"Odaː ykʏ̆dʒ-od̥sn̩ kʉːg gøbdɛːd̥ bæːxɐ, jaːksn muː xøwtæː kʉːnbtʃ?"
"Ʉːnlæː daln̩ tawn̩ arslɐŋ ørtæː bilæːw, 'endr̩ øgnæːw', 'maŋguːr øgnæːw' gɛgeːd̥wædʒ ykʷdʒodw̩. Aʃuːɣaːn aptʃ bæːnæːw."
"Enə̆ kʉːg nykn̩dn̩ʲ dartʃkŏ, bi møŋgiːtʃɪnʲ øksʏ̆w!" genæː.
Daln̩ tawn̩ arslɐŋ møŋgæːn awaːd̥ saːkɐ̆ kʉːg nykn̩dʏ̆ dardʒɛːnæː.
Note that some of this is phonetic rather than phonemic (and for ‹a› read ɑ).
Mansi?
fusijui wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 5:56 pmMongolian.
No and no, though you're certainly on the right continent.
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 1:09 pm
by dewrad
Tropylium wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 12:46 pm
Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 5:48 pm
Tropylium wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 4:56 pm
I'm passing by this thread while reading something applicable, so here's an example given in IPA:
Note that some of this is phonetic rather than phonemic (and for ‹a› read ɑ).
Mansi?
fusijui wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 5:56 pmMongolian.
No and no, though you're certainly on the right continent.
Crimean Tatar?
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 5:45 pm
by Nortaneous
bradrn wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 2:17 am
Pwo Karen then? According to
this, it appears to have about the right phonology (although it appears to have implosives rather than voiced plosives — perhaps a transcription issue).
EDIT: Looking at that link again, the vowel system seems to be a bit more elaborate than the one in your quote, so I’m a bit less sure of my guess now.
no - wrong subgroup
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 6:51 pm
by bradrn
Nortaneous wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 5:45 pm
bradrn wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 2:17 am
Pwo Karen then? According to
this, it appears to have about the right phonology (although it appears to have implosives rather than voiced plosives — perhaps a transcription issue).
EDIT: Looking at that link again, the vowel system seems to be a bit more elaborate than the one in your quote, so I’m a bit less sure of my guess now.
no - wrong subgroup
Alright then. So it’s not Sgaw or Pwo. It’s not Kayah/Red Karen either, since I saw a grammar of that and the phonology doesn’t match up. So it’s either Brek or a Bghai language. The Bghai language
Lahta almost has the right phonology, but it has /sʰ q/ while your sample text doesn’t. But I looked at the sample texts in that grammar and I found your text, so it must be Lahta, and it’s just bad luck those consonants weren’t in your text.
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 7:11 pm
by Nortaneous
yes
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 7:12 pm
by bradrn
Glad to know I got something right at last!
Quick question: I found two interesting texts, but I’m not sure which one will be harder. Can I just post both?
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 10:28 pm
by fusijui
Tropylium wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 12:46 pm
Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 5:48 pm
Tropylium wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 4:56 pm
I'm passing by this thread while reading something applicable, so here's an example given in IPA:
Note that some of this is phonetic rather than phonemic (and for ‹a› read ɑ).
Mansi?
fusijui wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 5:56 pmMongolian.
No and no, though you're certainly on the right continent.
Even after a couple decades of rust & corrosion the grammar and maybe half the vocabulary is immediately obvious to me, so I'm wondering how it's not Mongol.
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 10:35 pm
by Nortaneous
Kalmyk?
bradrn wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 7:12 pm
Quick question: I found two interesting texts, but I’m not sure which one will be harder. Can I just post both?
sure why not
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 10:38 pm
by bradrn
Here’s text 1:
Namaʼ na Wirin nana ta. Tota taʼ na. Tota tota tota tota tota tota tota piʼ pin nain. Mana panxica mana panxica ʼari nana. Tom tain na. Tom tom tom pin nain. ʼOinʼ jein nanam mana Maʼe. ʼOin jein nanam mana panxica cam jicacam mana panxica Maʼe. ʼOin ʼoinʼ ʼoinʼ ʼoinʼ ʼoinʼ ʼoinʼ ʼoinʼ ʼoinʼ ʼoinʼ hooooo xamʼ. ʼOinʼ xamʼ pin nanain. Pijeʼ caʼ na xitot. ʼOm ca hwaraʼ ne xitot maʼ. Pijeʼ caʼ na. Xamʼ. Xamʼ pin na ta te. Howa. To wet mao cacama maʼ na. To to to to. ʼAm horon pin taʼ na. ʼAm horon pin taʼ na. ʼAm tapaʼ taʼ na wijein. Tapaaaaʼ ʼari. ʼAm hwerehwet quiʼ taʼ na winain.
And here’s text 2:
Kalauru ere ateasa waʼa ae uta gi watu mutu lafu. Ana beʼu to saunu, were nau welafu. Laga mutu ere kalauru naʼu baunu meti gata woʼi lafu, di keta mahi ama laneʼe mutu woʼi. Rate mutu woʼi ho nehe baunu, deri laneʼe ana aga do to saga. Baunu ene hai naʼu hau labiʼi. Kafu bila mutu woʼi ho nehe baunu. Geribata kalauru saga, ani tanehe hau saregini. Gi asa raurau laneʼe hau ma deidei wau, gi kote laneʼe hausaʼi hau laku. Kalauru ere ira sarehe hau ma bane, ani ma busu u isi tina. Hau dafuru, gi ira hau laku do ailemi ma taa wau. Ana oho kalauru ere afi ma gata wau, oho laka wata-ira waʼa hai key ere ma guba tina, taranau nigeʼe nigeʼe gini, seu naʼu saʼi rau.
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 6:47 am
by Frislander
Tropylium wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 4:56 pm
I'm passing by this thread while reading something applicable, so here's an example given in IPA:
Xaːnædn̩ʲ kyrtʃ irnæː. Neg ykʏ̆sn̩ kʉːg neg kʉːn ysʏ̆næːsn̩ʲ tataːd̥ gøbdɛːd̥ bæːdɐɢ̥ bolnæː.
"Odaː ykʏ̆dʒ-od̥sn̩ kʉːg gøbdɛːd̥ bæːxɐ, jaːksn muː xøwtæː kʉːnbtʃ?"
"Ʉːnlæː daln̩ tawn̩ arslɐŋ ørtæː bilæːw, 'endr̩ øgnæːw', 'maŋguːr øgnæːw' gɛgeːd̥wædʒ ykʷdʒodw̩. Aʃuːɣaːn aptʃ bæːnæːw."
"Enə̆ kʉːg nykn̩dn̩ʲ dartʃkŏ, bi møŋgiːtʃɪnʲ øksʏ̆w!" genæː.
Daln̩ tawn̩ arslɐŋ møŋgæːn awaːd̥ saːkɐ̆ kʉːg nykn̩dʏ̆ dardʒɛːnæː.
Note that some of this is phonetic rather than phonemic (and for ‹a› read ɑ).
Tungusic?
bradrn wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 10:38 pm
Namaʼ na Wirin nana ta. Tota taʼ na. Tota tota tota tota tota tota tota piʼ pin nain. Mana panxica mana panxica ʼari nana. Tom tain na. Tom tom tom pin nain. ʼOinʼ jein nanam mana Maʼe. ʼOin jein nanam mana panxica cam jicacam mana panxica Maʼe. ʼOin ʼoinʼ ʼoinʼ ʼoinʼ ʼoinʼ ʼoinʼ ʼoinʼ ʼoinʼ ʼoinʼ hooooo xamʼ. ʼOinʼ xamʼ pin nanain. Pijeʼ caʼ na xitot. ʼOm ca hwaraʼ ne xitot maʼ. Pijeʼ caʼ na. Xamʼ. Xamʼ pin na ta te. Howa. To wet mao cacama maʼ na. To to to to. ʼAm horon pin taʼ na. ʼAm horon pin taʼ na. ʼAm tapaʼ taʼ na wijein. Tapaaaaʼ ʼari. ʼAm hwerehwet quiʼ taʼ na winain.
Latin American, bears some resemblance to Seri but without the clusters. Chapacuran, and if so, Wari‘?
Kalauru ere ateasa waʼa ae uta gi watu mutu lafu. Ana beʼu to saunu, were nau welafu. Laga mutu ere kalauru naʼu baunu meti gata woʼi lafu, di keta mahi ama laneʼe mutu woʼi. Rate mutu woʼi ho nehe baunu, deri laneʼe ana aga do to saga. Baunu ene hai naʼu hau labiʼi. Kafu bila mutu woʼi ho nehe baunu. Geribata kalauru saga, ani tanehe hau saregini. Gi asa raurau laneʼe hau ma deidei wau, gi kote laneʼe hausaʼi hau laku. Kalauru ere ira sarehe hau ma bane, ani ma busu u isi tina. Hau dafuru, gi ira hau laku do ailemi ma taa wau. Ana oho kalauru ere afi ma gata wau, oho laka wata-ira waʼa hai key ere ma guba tina, taranau nigeʼe nigeʼe gini, seu naʼu saʼi rau.
Spoken in the Solomons?
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 8:30 am
by bradrn
Frislander wrote: ↑Thu May 21, 2020 6:47 am
bradrn wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 10:38 pm
Namaʼ na Wirin nana ta. Tota taʼ na. Tota tota tota tota tota tota tota piʼ pin nain. Mana panxica mana panxica ʼari nana. Tom tain na. Tom tom tom pin nain. ʼOinʼ jein nanam mana Maʼe. ʼOin jein nanam mana panxica cam jicacam mana panxica Maʼe. ʼOin ʼoinʼ ʼoinʼ ʼoinʼ ʼoinʼ ʼoinʼ ʼoinʼ ʼoinʼ ʼoinʼ hooooo xamʼ. ʼOinʼ xamʼ pin nanain. Pijeʼ caʼ na xitot. ʼOm ca hwaraʼ ne xitot maʼ. Pijeʼ caʼ na. Xamʼ. Xamʼ pin na ta te. Howa. To wet mao cacama maʼ na. To to to to. ʼAm horon pin taʼ na. ʼAm horon pin taʼ na. ʼAm tapaʼ taʼ na wijein. Tapaaaaʼ ʼari. ʼAm hwerehwet quiʼ taʼ na winain.
Latin American, bears some resemblance to Seri but without the clusters. Chapacuran, and if so, Wari‘?
Very good — it is indeed Wariʼ! I was expecting this one to be quite tricky, so I’m surprised you got it so quickly.
Kalauru ere ateasa waʼa ae uta gi watu mutu lafu. Ana beʼu to saunu, were nau welafu. Laga mutu ere kalauru naʼu baunu meti gata woʼi lafu, di keta mahi ama laneʼe mutu woʼi. Rate mutu woʼi ho nehe baunu, deri laneʼe ana aga do to saga. Baunu ene hai naʼu hau labiʼi. Kafu bila mutu woʼi ho nehe baunu. Geribata kalauru saga, ani tanehe hau saregini. Gi asa raurau laneʼe hau ma deidei wau, gi kote laneʼe hausaʼi hau laku. Kalauru ere ira sarehe hau ma bane, ani ma busu u isi tina. Hau dafuru, gi ira hau laku do ailemi ma taa wau. Ana oho kalauru ere afi ma gata wau, oho laka wata-ira waʼa hai key ere ma guba tina, taranau nigeʼe nigeʼe gini, seu naʼu saʼi rau.
Spoken in the Solomons?
No.
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 11:47 am
by Tropylium
fusijui wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 10:28 pmEven after a couple decades of rust & corrosion the grammar and maybe half the vocabulary is immediately obvious to me, so I'm wondering how it's not Mongol.
Because it's instead:
Re: Name That Language!
Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 3:54 pm
by fusijui
Tropylium wrote: ↑Thu May 21, 2020 11:47 am
fusijui wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 10:28 pmEven after a couple decades of rust & corrosion the grammar and maybe half the vocabulary is immediately obvious to me, so I'm wondering how it's not Mongol.
Because it's instead:
I concede that this game is not about legislating language vs. dialect, but I'm
just competitive enough to want to argue that if it's readily intelligible to someone who "knows" "Mongolian" but not "Kalmyk" then maybe that distinction is an over-delicacy :p