Zompist Bboard Again

Posted: **Sun Jun 30, 2024 6:22 pm**

masako wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 6:15 pm
malloc wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 6:05 pm I don't want this anymore than anyone else
Then don't sit there...go get someone to be with you. Call a support line. 988 Crisis Lifeline

Seconded. Do this now.

Beyond this, some reflections:

If you have severe anxiety, it is hard to reason about how the world really is. Insanely hard. From the inside, it feels like the world is collapsing. This is regardless of whether it is the truth or not. The anxiety relentlessly pushes you to take the worst interpretation of everything, until a negative future feels certain.

But this is not true. When anxiety forces you to think this way, you literally are unable to think of any reason why life would turn out to be less than completely negative. However, there are plenty. I can assure you of that. Generally speaking, there are as many ways for the future to be good as there are for it to be bad. We have described many of these to you. Perhaps the future is not always 100% good, but then again it rarely turns out 100% bad either. There will always be bright spots, or at least not-so-dark ones.

You need to figure out a way to cope with this anxiety. It sounds like you’ve tried medication already — that’s good. If this medication doesn’t work for you, try something different. I have a close family member who took several years to find the right medication. When he found it, it helped him immensely: he could stop worrying inanely, and start living a proper life. You need to do the same.

Posted: **Sun Jun 30, 2024 6:45 pm**

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 6:22 pm
masako wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 6:15 pm
malloc wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 6:05 pm I don't want this anymore than anyone else
Then don't sit there...go get someone to be with you. Call a support line. 988 Crisis Lifeline
Seconded. Do this now.

Beyond this, some reflections:

If you have severe anxiety, it is hard to reason about how the world really is. Insanely hard. From the inside, it feels like the world is collapsing. This is regardless of whether it is the truth or not. The anxiety relentlessly pushes you to take the worst interpretation of everything, until a negative future feels certain.

But this is not true. When anxiety forces you to think this way, you literally are unable to think of any reason why life would turn out to be less than completely negative. However, there are plenty. I can assure you of that. Generally speaking, there are as many ways for the future to be good as there are for it to be bad. We have described many of these to you. Perhaps the future is not always 100% good, but then again it rarely turns out 100% bad either. There will always be bright spots, or at least not-so-dark ones.

You need to figure out a way to cope with this anxiety. It sounds like you’ve tried medication already — that’s good. If this medication doesn’t work for you, try something different. I have a close family member who took several years to find the right medication. When he found it, it helped him immensely: he could stop worrying inanely, and start living a proper life. You need to do the same.

Yes. You should really heed this advice, malloc. I understand that the situation is very depressing, on top of your job problems, with the wars in Gaza and Ukraine, the far right scoring one election triumph after the other, and the climate crisis proceeding seemingly unhaltably. These problems of course have to do with each other. It is a far-right regime in Russia that has attacked Ukraine; it is a far-right regime in Israel that is bombing the Gaza strip into rubble in retribution to a terrorist strike orchestrated from there (it would have been acceptable to hunt down the perpetrators and organizers of the attack, but it is not OK to plunge an entire (though small) country into chaos like that); the far right denies the world climate problem, and in a fascist state, there is no way rallying for climate action, voting for parties who put it on their agenda, or suing the government for insufficient policy. But so far, not everything is lost. It's the early 1930s again, but it can be stopped.

Posted: **Sun Jun 30, 2024 7:03 pm**

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 6:45 pm Yes. You should really heed this advice, malloc.

One thing I should strongly emphasise here: truly ‘heeding this advice‘ is itself difficult. I make no claims that it’s easy to do. (After all, if it were, we wouldn’t need therapists.) I present it mostly as a starting point for reflection about how your own brain works, and how connected it is to reality.

Posted: **Sun Jun 30, 2024 7:55 pm**

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 6:45 pmBut so far, not everything is lost. It's the early 1930s again, but it can be stopped.

But we are rapidly running out of countries capable and willing to stop the fascists. The early 1930s had multiple superpowers without fascist governments who ultimately defeated the fascists in war. What major countries do you foresee resisting the call of reactionary politics and taking up arms against all the ones that went fascist?

For what it's worth, I still have plenty of unfinished business I need addressed before taking such extreme measures. It will take several months at least before I've taken care of everything and feel ready to follow through with it.

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 1:42 am**

What everybody said. Get a support line; try to find some professional help even if it sounds entirely pointless right now.
Right now is really not the best time for anxiety or depression sufferers. But you can get through it.

malloc wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 7:55 pm But we are rapidly running out of countries capable and willing to stop the fascists. The early 1930s had multiple superpowers without fascist governments who ultimately defeated the fascists in war. What major countries do you foresee resisting the call of reactionary politics and taking up arms against all the ones that went fascist?

As for fascism and global warning -- things are bad are on both fronts right now, but that's all the more reason not to give up. We need all good people.

Reactionary politics can and will be resisted. I'm real angry about people letting the fascists in, and I know they'll stick there far longer than we'd like and do far too much damage. But one thing I'm sure of is that they won't be here forever.
Ditto for global warming: some of the environmental damage is irreversible, far too much of it but we will get to a sustainable lifestyle. It'll be way more painful than necessary, but we'll get there.

Personally, I think the situation is better than the 30s. Global war is unlikely; intellectually, we're a lot better armed and we know what to expect.

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 1:55 am**

Ares Land wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 1:42 am What everybody said. Get a support line; try to find some professional help even if it sounds entirely pointless right now.
Right now is really not the best time for anxiety or depression sufferers. But you can get through it.

Seconded. Malloc, you need professional help; more than that, you deserve it. I don't know what your insurance situation is, but this is what insurance is for. You cannot solve the problem by stewing about it alone, and that includes whatever obstacles you think keep you from seeing a therapist. Heck, if you go see one I'll pay for the first session, whatever your insurance doesn't cover.

As for fascism and global warning -- things are bad are on both fronts right now, but that's all the more reason not to give up. We need all good people.

Reactionary politics can and will be resisted. I'm real angry about people letting the fascists in, and I know they'll stick there far longer than we'd like and do far too much damage. But one thing I'm sure of is that they won't be here forever.
Ditto for global warming: some of the environmental damage is irreversible, far too much of it but we will get to a sustainable lifestyle. It'll be way more painful than necessary, but we'll get there.

Personally, I think the situation is better than the 30s. Global war is unlikely; intellectually, we're a lot better armed and we know what to expect.

Also words of wisdom. Everyone is in this particular boat and the thing to think about is how to help each other.

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:22 am**

I agree with those who are advising you to seek assistance, an ear to talk to, a doctor to help you.

malloc wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 7:55 pm
WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 6:45 pmBut so far, not everything is lost. It's the early 1930s again, but it can be stopped.
But we are rapidly running out of countries capable and willing to stop the fascists. The early 1930s had multiple superpowers without fascist governments who ultimately defeated the fascists in war

...and also superpowers with fascist governments who also defeated the fascists in war. (ie, Stalin fought Hirohito)

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 4:36 am**

Comparatively trivial vent: Why do I have to be so bad at keeping my eyes open during that blow-air-at-your-eyeballs-to-measure-eyeball-pressure thing they do at ophthalmologists' offices?

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 4:53 am**

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 4:36 am Comparatively trivial vent: Why do I have to be so bad at keeping my eyes open during that blow-air-at-your-eyeballs-to-measure-eyeball-pressure thing they do at ophthalmologists' offices?

So am I. I suspect this is difficult for everyone. I'm a little bemused at the expectation that people can control an involuntary reflex.

Posted: **Tue Jul 02, 2024 12:36 am**

Ares Land wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 4:53 am
Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 4:36 am Comparatively trivial vent: Why do I have to be so bad at keeping my eyes open during that blow-air-at-your-eyeballs-to-measure-eyeball-pressure thing they do at ophthalmologists' offices?
So am I. I suspect this is difficult for everyone. I'm a little bemused at the expectation that people can control an involuntary reflex.

I suspect that may be the point of it - the degree of self-control is what they're testing, in part..also it cuts down on having to call in an assistant to hold the eyes open for that test and a few others.

Posted: **Tue Jul 02, 2024 6:09 am**

keenir wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 12:36 am

I suspect that may be the point of it - the degree of self-control is what they're testing, in part..also it cuts down on having to call in an assistant to hold the eyes open for that test and a few others.

Oh, in my case they did eventually call in an assistant for that purpose.

Posted: **Tue Jul 02, 2024 7:59 am**

Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 6:09 am
keenir wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 12:36 am

I suspect that may be the point of it - the degree of self-control is what they're testing, in part..also it cuts down on having to call in an assistant to hold the eyes open for that test and a few others.
Oh, in my case they did eventually call in an assistant for that purpose.

I have had such tests, too, and my eyelids jerked, but I managed to avoid closing my eyes before the test was done. (After the test, I closed them briefly as the natural reaction on intrusions. But that was after the measurement had been made, so no assistant had to be called in to keep my eyes open.)

Posted: **Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:10 pm**

Ares Land wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 4:53 am
Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 4:36 am Comparatively trivial vent: Why do I have to be so bad at keeping my eyes open during that blow-air-at-your-eyeballs-to-measure-eyeball-pressure thing they do at ophthalmologists' offices?
So am I. I suspect this is difficult for everyone. I'm a little bemused at the expectation that people can control an involuntary reflex.

@AresLand & @Raphael ;
I just had some such tests done. It was difficult for me to keep my right open; impossible (as far as I know) for me to keep my left eye open.
The technician eventually told me my left eyebrow “droops”. So somebody had to hold it open for me.

Did I always have a droopy left eyebrow? or, is this an age thing?

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2024 8:35 pm**

keenir wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:22 am
malloc wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 7:55 pm
WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 6:45 pmBut so far, not everything is lost. It's the early 1930s again, but it can be stopped.
But we are rapidly running out of countries capable and willing to stop the fascists. The early 1930s had multiple superpowers without fascist governments who ultimately defeated the fascists in war
...and also superpowers with fascist governments who also defeated the fascists in war. (ie, Stalin fought Hirohito)

Sure but that doesn't mean contemporary autocracies will restore liberal democracy in areas they invade. We are rapidly hurtling toward a future where every superpower along with most countries in general have far right autocratic governments. Who do you envision bringing back liberal democracy, civil rights for minorities, and so forth?

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:29 pm**

malloc wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 8:35 pm
keenir wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:22 am
malloc wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 7:55 pmBut we are rapidly running out of countries capable and willing to stop the fascists. The early 1930s had multiple superpowers without fascist governments who ultimately defeated the fascists in war
...and also superpowers with fascist governments who also defeated the fascists in war. (ie, Stalin fought Hirohito)
Sure but that doesn't mean contemporary autocracies will restore liberal democracy in areas they invade.

True, but I never said anything about contemporary powers.

We are rapidly hurtling toward a future where every superpower along with most countries in general have far right autocratic governments.

This sounds oddly familiar...its almost like its a refrain from history.

(whats the expression?, it never really took there either)

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:30 pm**

keenir wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:29 pmThis sounds oddly familiar...its almost like its a refrain from history.
(whats the expression?, it never really took there either)

Not really. People keep forgetting that the US and UK remained democratic in the thirties even as dictatorship swept the rest of the world. The question was never (or only briefly) whether they would adopt fascism but whether the UK could survive the Blitz and whether the US would throw its considerable might against the Axis powers. Currently all the most powerful countries are already dictatorships (China and Russia) or headed inexorably toward such (the US) in the coming months. Do you honestly believe the handful of countries that have avoided this trend like the UK and Mexico can defeat nuclear-armed superpowers in a third world war and restore liberal democracy there?

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:46 pm**

malloc wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:30 pm
keenir wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:29 pmThis sounds oddly familiar...its almost like its a refrain from history.
(whats the expression?, it never really took there either)
Not really. People keep forgetting that the US and UK remained democratic in the thirties even as dictatorship swept the rest of the world. The question was never (or only briefly) whether they would adopt fascism but whether the UK could survive the Blitz and whether the US would throw its considerable might against the Axis powers.

As my UK friends like to remind me, The Abdicator was not friendly to the Axis purely for geopolitical reasons...and we in the US very nearly had President Lindbergh.

Currently all the most powerful countries are already dictatorships (China and Russia) or headed inexorably toward such (the US) in the coming months.

Wow, you really think Biden's that bad?

Do you honestly believe the handful of countries that have avoided this trend like the UK and Mexico can defeat nuclear-armed superpowers in a third world war and restore liberal democracy there?

I never said I believe that...

That said, I answer Yes to the former, Maybe to the latter. Particularly if those two nations have to do everything on their own. (and without knowing the terms of the war, to what point its fought, or against how many of the superpowers)

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:56 pm**

keenir wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:46 pmAs my UK friends like to remind me, The Abdicator was not friendly to the Axis purely for geopolitical reasons...and we in the US very nearly had President Lindbergh.

But how close did the British fascists come to winning a majority in parliament?

Wow, you really think Biden's that bad?

Barring a miracle, Biden has very little chance of winning reëlection at this point. His failed debate last week has become the new Dean scream. Currently the Democratic party leadership is debating whether to replace him with another candidate altogether. Unfortunately even the best alternative would have only several months to campaign. Considering that Trump has been campaigning nonstop for years now, that puts them at an unbridgeable disadvantage.

That said, I answer Yes to the former, Maybe to the latter. Particularly if those two nations have to do everything on their own. (and without knowing the terms of the war, to what point its fought, or against how many of the superpowers)

How so? China, Russia, and the US could each destroy the world many times over with their nuclear arsenals. Do you believe that the UK could defeat France under the RA, Germany under the AfD, and Russia, or that Mexico could defeat the US under Trump? If you believe the current situation is analogous to what preceded WWII, then you need to point out the democratic superpowers who could oust the autocracies.

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2024 11:19 pm**

malloc wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:56 pm
keenir wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:46 pmAs my UK friends like to remind me, The Abdicator was not friendly to the Axis purely for geopolitical reasons...and we in the US very nearly had President Lindbergh.
But how close did the British fascists come to winning a majority in parliament?

The Abdicator was briefly king of the Empire. Parliament has to be approved by him.

Look, if you want to bemoan that the world is heading to the dogs yet again with - yet again - no appearant way out except through, go ahead. I was trying to help, but, sheesh. (though you're as good a nitpicker as I was back in my fanfic beta-reading days; kudos!)

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2024 11:34 pm**

I am sorry, Malloc and everyone else.

I don't agree that all the nations of the world - or even all of the powerful ones - are turning into far-Right dictatorships. And even if some of them are, I fully trust them to turn on each other - and also on themselves (case in point: the Ultra-Orthodox in Israel, protesting in the street, screaming at cops)

Also, I trust paperwork and beaurocracy to hamstring attempts to turn democracies into autocracies. (remember, the US has a two-term limit - and Trump has claimed that he was the president these past four years; that means he disqualified himself, even without all his court issues involved)

I don't think we need WW3 to unseat dictators...those who aren't holding precariously onto power, are unlikely to do more than rattle sabers (ie, North Korea), or may die before they get the chance to engage in a global war. (the Ukraine War didn't get counted by anyone as WW3, after all, at least not that I heard)

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