Yeah, it's a ridiculous double standard
The idea cuts both (well, all) ways.
If this is in reference to me, I do not support Trump and am not a Republican (though neither am I a Democrat). The spectre of another Trump presidency makes me greatly apprehensive and I am all too aware of Project 2025 (and the prospect of JD Vance assuming office; he’s from my state). That does not mean, however, I cannot or will not comment on how we got here.
because the other party also makes it clear they despise us - Trump doesn't even couch it in anything resembling polite language.Man in Space wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 1:13 pmIf one party constantly bangs their drum to shit on you for your (lack of) education, would you care what the other does so long as they embraced you? EDIT: Put another way—if one party makes it clear they despise you, why would you be inclined to vote for them?Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 1:09 pmIs it "open intellectual snobbery and bullying" to expect people to be just slightly informed (e.g. occasionally opening Google News and reading about politics or even just turning on any TV channel other than Fox News every so often), to be angry when they either patently ignore everything that comes directly out of their chosen candidate's own mouth right in the very open, in the kind of media that they themselves are likely to follow (i.e. they are ignorant) or actively agree with it and think it is good (i.e. they are evil)?Man in Space wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 12:32 pm Giving everyone a vote means letting the poorly-educated vote. It always seemed odd to me that the same people who lionize democracy openly insult those without education. Like, the poorly-educated are going to have a vote, and instead of reaching out to them, you (the general “you”, not you specifically) just demonize them. Small wonder they vote for the party that doesn’t practice open intellectual snobbery and bullying against them. (I still remember 2016, when Clinton called half the country a “basket of deplorable”, while Trump said “I love the poorly-educated”.)
So how exactly do you expect Democrats to ever win again if you reject the idea of trying to change the mind of anybody who didn't already vote for the Democrats?Umm it was very obvious what the Republicans stood/stand for and what they were planning to do (the Republicans did nothing to hide it), so anyone who could vote and didn't vote for Harris frankly was/is necessarily either stupid/ignorant (i.e. they didn't realize what Trump was/is for and was/is planning to do or were somehow deluded into thinking it was a good thing) or evil (i.e. they knew full well what Trump intended and how bad it would be and supported it because of that). And you are just making excuses for them with statements like that.
You think uneducated/poor people are the Republican base? This is how we get shit like the Chuck Schumer plan.Travis B. wrote:You seem to expect the Democrats to prostrate themselves before the Republican base and never say anything that may slightly offend themMan in Space wrote:If one party constantly bangs their drum to shit on you for your (lack of) education, would you care what the other does so long as they embraced you? EDIT: Put another way—if one party makes it clear they despise you, why would you be inclined to vote for them?
Zompist wrote:Ally with other institutions. Liberals tend to be too happy with their influence on government, the academy, and the media. They tend to forget (or are actively hostile toward) the church, the military, business, the family. All of these can be allies for progressive causes.
RIP Ukraine and RIP Taiwan. Trump, in his characteristic narcissistic and lazy way, doesn't understand that China cares far more about Taiwan than they care about some tariffs, and that China probably already expects a full trade embargo if/when they invade Taiwan anyways. ( https://www.reuters.com/world/trump-say ... 024-10-18/ )WeepingElf wrote:I also think the staff is broken over Ukraine now - within a year, Zelensky will be either dead, in gulag, or in exile. Things haven't been kind to him and all freedom-loving Ukrainians, ans without support from the USA, things will get very bad. So Trump will end the war in Ukraine - but in an unacceptable way.
By when midterms come (provided America still has free and fair elections then) people seeing how much of a clusterfuck Trump's policies really are, and considering their past votes for him having been a poor choice?jcb wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 4:39 pmSo how exactly do you expect Democrats to ever win again if you reject the idea of trying to change the mind of anybody who didn't already vote for the Democrats?Umm it was very obvious what the Republicans stood/stand for and what they were planning to do (the Republicans did nothing to hide it), so anyone who could vote and didn't vote for Harris frankly was/is necessarily either stupid/ignorant (i.e. they didn't realize what Trump was/is for and was/is planning to do or were somehow deluded into thinking it was a good thing) or evil (i.e. they knew full well what Trump intended and how bad it would be and supported it because of that). And you are just making excuses for them with statements like that.
As I said, the Republicans constantly shit on everyone slightly to their left but get all hypersensitive about the least criticism from their left. And I was not just criticizing poorly educated supporters of the Republicans, I was also criticizing educated supporters of the Republicans (i.e. the evil ones, as these are people who really know what the Republicans are for and support them anyways) too, lest you forget that.jcb wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 4:39 pmYou think uneducated/poor people are the Republican base? This is how we get shit like the Chuck Schumer plan.Travis B. wrote:You seem to expect the Democrats to prostrate themselves before the Republican base and never say anything that may slightly offend themMan in Space wrote:If one party constantly bangs their drum to shit on you for your (lack of) education, would you care what the other does so long as they embraced you? EDIT: Put another way—if one party makes it clear they despise you, why would you be inclined to vote for them?
The article it links to is excellent, thanks.
Also, regarding this: I think there’s one good reason to be respectful, namely because that would make it easier to have a discussion with them and possibly change their opinions. As justified as impoliteness may be, it doesn’t help to change their opinions.
The liberal obsession with civility politics
So you're just okay with constantly losing half the time to fascists? got it. As you implied, how long will free and fair elections even still exist if fascists are in power half the time? You seem to understand the stakes, so I don't understand your reluctance to change anything.By when midterms come (provided America still has free and fair elections then) people seeing how much of a clusterfuck Trump's policies really are, and considering their past votes for him having been a poor choice?
No one is telling people to care about the economy. They just do. If they didn't, nature would select against their survival.MacAnDàil wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 9:23 am This is a problem with overly focusing on the economy. You may get a self-proclaimed greedy person (along with his other faults of course). Morality should trump the economy.
PS also overly focusing on immigration/people moving house across countries. It just plays into the xenophobes' hands.
If a family business becomes a megacorp, it will be "taxed" until it's a family business again.
How so?
And why don't people trust liberals? The deterioration of unions and abandonment of working people in general probably has something to do with it.rotting bones wrote:You can be 100% accurate about everything, but people just won't listen when they don't trust you.
Such a man already exists: Jesse Ventura.I think the 2028 Democratic candidate should be (no joke!) a pro wrestler who constantly belittles Trump as a loser and taunts him to enter the ring if he dares.
He ran a third party campaign for governor of Minnesota in 1998 and won.Wikipedia wrote:Jesse Ventura is an American politician, actor, and retired professional wrestler.
Is Ukraine going to be better off under Russia? Is Taiwan going to be better off under China?I hope Torco is right about a Trump presidency weakening the American empire.
I only intended to say that you need a phone to work in the mainstream world economy. My anecdote was meant to point out the difference between essential and inessential purchases.zompist wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 1:44 am So, one of the most unfortunate countries in the world, brutalized by exploitation and dictatorship. And they still achieved 51% cell phone ownership. That's a rare bit of good news for the country, and indicative of the way that cell phones are transforming the developing world.
It's not even a passive abandonment. When Obama came to power, the Democratic party strategized to dissolve the grassroots organizations that campaigned for him to appease the corporate Democrats. They could have chosen to retain it, and the Democrats would have had an answer to the MAGA movement today. But leftist populism isn't profitable, you see.
I'll have to look into this.jcb wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 10:44 pm Such a man already exists: Jesse Ventura.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVPxCnU_aW4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUJv6BbpauQ
He ran a third party campaign for governor of Minnesota in 1998 and won.Wikipedia wrote:Jesse Ventura is an American politician, actor, and retired professional wrestler.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Minn ... l_election
Why don't you ask Trump voters? I can't help these countries. I can only take what I'm given and think of the best next step. If we do get a multipolar world, it could be easier to undermine each oppressive regime.