Zompist Bboard Again

'Almost'. Nigel Farage said the idea that he aids and abets people like Jimmy Saville was "almost not true". If I wanted to deny something, I would say it was "not true", "false" or "absolutely". Saying something was "almost not true" would imply that there were at least some smidgeon of a truth to it. So, Farage, why is it only "almost" not true?

MacAnDàil wrote: ↑Wed Aug 06, 2025 4:40 pm 'Almost'. Nigel Farage said the idea that he aids and abets people like Jimmy Saville was "almost not true". If I wanted to deny something, I would say it was "not true", "false" or "absolutely". Saying something was "almost not true" would imply that there were at least some smidgeon of a truth to it. So, Farage, why is it only "almost" not true?

Wait, another fascist leader in hot water over pedophile entanglements?

MacAnDàil wrote: ↑Wed Aug 06, 2025 4:40 pm 'Almost'. Nigel Farage said the idea that he aids and abets people like Jimmy Saville was "almost not true". If I wanted to deny something, I would say it was "not true", "false" or "absolutely". Saying something was "almost not true" would imply that there were at least some smidgeon of a truth to it. So, Farage, why is it only "almost" not true?

It has been pointed out that his calling for further inquiries into grooming gangs could further hold up the implementation of recommendations from the previous inquiry into them.

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Aug 06, 2025 5:02 pm

MacAnDàil wrote: ↑Wed Aug 06, 2025 4:40 pm 'Almost'. Nigel Farage said the idea that he aids and abets people like Jimmy Saville was "almost not true". If I wanted to deny something, I would say it was "not true", "false" or "absolutely". Saying something was "almost not true" would imply that there were at least some smidgeon of a truth to it. So, Farage, why is it only "almost" not true?

Wait, another fascist leader in hot water over pedophile entanglements?

Unfortunately, I seem to be the only one that I have seen of that has noticed the odd wording.

soooo... what's the deal with corbyn's new party? are they leftist leftists ? is it going somewhere ?

Torco wrote: ↑Fri Aug 15, 2025 7:09 pm soooo... what's the deal with corbyn's new party? are they leftist leftists ? is it going somewhere ?

The deal is it still isn't actually a thing yet. You can sign up to be part of the founding process, I think¹, but it doesn't even have a name yet, or any policy positions except the complaints about Labour policies and actions in the statement that such a party would be founded. We're still waiting for anything else.

¹ I did have a look at the website, but can't remember what you actually sign up for, given the party doesn't legally exist yet². Apparently at least 600 000 people have done so, but I don't think this has been verified, so take it with a grain of salt
² Although there was an idea floating around that the Trade Union and Socialist Congress³ would donate it's registration to Corbyn & Sultana's⁴, but I don't know how serious this was.
³ A group of tiny left-wing parties that put up joint candidates. I don't know if the proposal is that the new party would join TUSC (as by far it's biggest member), or TUSC as-is would dissolve, or something else
⁴ Zarah Sultana, the other ex-Labour MP involved in the party

Lērisama wrote: ↑Sat Aug 16, 2025 8:42 am or any policy positions except the complaints about Labour policies and actions in the statement that such a party would be founded. We're still waiting for anything else.

Well, given who's involved in the whole thing, it shouldn't be that difficult to make educated guesses about the likely policies of the potential new party.

Raphael wrote: ↑Sat Aug 16, 2025 8:54 am

Lērisama wrote: ↑Sat Aug 16, 2025 8:42 am or any policy positions except the complaints about Labour policies and actions in the statement that such a party would be founded. We're still waiting for anything else.

Well, given who's involved in the whole thing, it shouldn't be that difficult to make educated guesses about the likely policies of the potential new party.

I find myself thinking of it as, basically, ‘Le Royaume-Uni Insoumis’…

(I was just watching a French video, so do excuse me for getting my wires crossed.)

bradrn wrote: ↑Sat Aug 16, 2025 9:04 am

Raphael wrote: ↑Sat Aug 16, 2025 8:54 am

Lērisama wrote: ↑Sat Aug 16, 2025 8:42 am or any policy positions except the complaints about Labour policies and actions in the statement that such a party would be founded. We're still waiting for anything else.

Well, given who's involved in the whole thing, it shouldn't be that difficult to make educated guesses about the likely policies of the potential new party.

I find myself thinking of it as, basically, ‘Le Royaume-Uni Insoumis’…

(I was just watching a French video, so do excuse me for getting my wires crossed.)

I don't know enough about Mélenchon¹ to make a comparison. I suspect the best way to guess the policies would be to check the 2017 & 2019 Labour manifestoes, from when Corbyn was in charge, along with the left of Labour's position on various contraversial things². My French is terrible⁴, so I couldn't compare to LFI.

¹ I didn't check the spelling, sorry if got it wrong
² Specifically, they'd probably remove the 2-child benefit cap, reverse the changes to PIP³, and reinstate the Winter Fuel Allowance to richer pensioners⁵
³ A disability benefit
⁴ I have never actually sat down and learned French. I guess based on English, my little Latin, and random bits of French I've picked up here and there


⁵ Edit: I forgot Palestine. The predecessor of this party was a loose grouping of independent MPs that stood on a left-wing-ish pro-Palestine not-taking-your-vote-for-granted⁶, mostly in constituencies with significant Muslim populations, Corbyn had been traditionally active around this⁸, and the new party (presumably) carries on these traditions. Specifically, the points of difference to Labour would probably be being a lot more vocal about it, maybe banning some weapons exports, and reversing the ban on Palestine Action⁹
⁶ i.e. Labour had pretty much ignored Muslim voters⁷ because the Tories/Reform treat Islam with varying degrees of hostility
⁷ I can't say how true this is, not being one, but there was certainly a perception of this, which is all that matters really
⁸ I'm pretty sure there's some kind of more detailed explanation of Corbyn's Israel/Palestine views earlier in the thread
⁹ A Palestine-related direct action group that was proscribed as a terrorist organisation after it broke into an RAF base and spray-painted some plains¹⁰, which doesn't seem like prototypical terrorism to me, but I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not going to say any more
¹⁰ I think

Torco wrote: ↑Fri Aug 15, 2025 7:09 pm soooo... what's the deal with corbyn's new party? are they leftist leftists ? is it going somewhere ?

Oh, it's a way of returning to Proper Socialism™ because ever since K**r St*rm*r took over as leader the Labour Party has been practically indistinguishable from anything to the right of Trump.

alice wrote: ↑Sat Aug 16, 2025 3:02 pm because ever since K**r St*rm*r took over as leader the Labour Party has been practically indistinguishable from anything to the right of Trump.

Not that I'm a fan of the guy or something, but I'll note that so far he has neither abolished the BBC, nor abolished whichever UK office is in charge of distributing foreign aid, nor put some braindead billionaire friend of his in charge of firing large numbers of civil servants, nor sent large numbers of armed troops onto the streets of major British cities, nor sided with Putin against Ukraine, nor slapped ridiculously high tariffs on a whole lot of countries.

Raphael wrote: ↑Sun Aug 17, 2025 5:41 am

alice wrote: ↑Sat Aug 16, 2025 3:02 pm because ever since K**r St*rm*r took over as leader the Labour Party has been practically indistinguishable from anything to the right of Trump.

Not that I'm a fan of the guy or something, but I'll note that so far he has neither abolished the BBC, nor abolished whichever UK office is in charge of distributing foreign aid, nor put some braindead billionaire friend of his in charge of firing large numbers of civil servants, nor sent large numbers of armed troops onto the streets of major British cities, nor sided with Putin against Ukraine, nor slapped ridiculously high tariffs on a whole lot of countries.

Yes. Starmer is more of a centrist than a leftist, but a centrist is not the same as a rightist, of course.

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sun Aug 17, 2025 8:43 am

Raphael wrote: ↑Sun Aug 17, 2025 5:41 am

alice wrote: ↑Sat Aug 16, 2025 3:02 pm because ever since K**r St*rm*r took over as leader the Labour Party has been practically indistinguishable from anything to the right of Trump.

Not that I'm a fan of the guy or something, but I'll note that so far he has neither abolished the BBC, nor abolished whichever UK office is in charge of distributing foreign aid, nor put some braindead billionaire friend of his in charge of firing large numbers of civil servants, nor sent large numbers of armed troops onto the streets of major British cities, nor sided with Putin against Ukraine, nor slapped ridiculously high tariffs on a whole lot of countries.

Yes. Starmer is more of a centrist than a leftist, but a centrist is not the same as a rightist, of course.

As much as leftists perennially like to do so, it is a mistake to conflate centrists with rightists. Yes, they may not bring the Revolution any closer, but when the choice is between a centrist and a rightist, the choice is clear, even if it is unsatisfying.

Yebbut St*rm*r was going to take away disabled people's benefits and hasn't nationalised the railways yet.

it may be a mistake to confuse self styled centrists with rightists, but it's also a mistake not to notice they're more often than not awfully close, at least in latin america.

so they haven't issued a platform yet, sure, but are the vibes more, as i hear, that "this is going to be a socialist party" ? or more like a broader / more amorphous coalition of people who are disillusioned-with-labour ?

Torco wrote: ↑Mon Aug 18, 2025 9:52 pm so they haven't issued a platform yet, sure, but are the vibes more, as i hear, that "this is going to be a socialist party" ? or more like a broader / more amorphous coalition of people who are disillusioned-with-labour ?

It's not going to be the latter, but it's also not going to be the former. It's not an amorphous coalition of people who are disillusioned with Labour, because the Lib Dems and Greens do that from a left wing perspective, and Reform from a right wing one. Additionally, there are people disillusioned with Labour who hate Corbyn more¹, and since there are other parties in this niche, Corbyn is not the most attractive place for the disillusion to coalesce. All of these three are relatively similar in policy³, and none of them are actively socialist, but present themselves differently and get support from different sections of the population. I'd be the least surprised if Corbyns's party out of those three turned full-on socialist, but I expect somewhere between “nationalise water & railways & reverse benefit cuts” to “turn back the (economic) clock to the post war compromise⁴”, with somewhere closer to the first being more likely.

And it's immaterial anyway, but FPTP, and our current state of 3 left wing parties, 1 who knows & 2 right-wing ones is not going to end well, even if left wing parties get more votes. The ability of British voters to tactically vote should not be overestimated⁵

¹ Not as many as the Daily Mail would have you believe, but it's not nothing. The problem for this is the group of people² who see a lot to agree with in the Corbynist platform, but think Corbyn is too naïve to implement it. These people would have voted Labour in 2017–2019, hoping the less Corbynist side of Labour would prevent any disasters stemming from this, but probably wouldn't vote for a solely Corbynist party
² Probably including me, depending on exactly what they end up standing for
³ With the caveats that we don't know the new party's policies yet
⁴ i.e. Before Thatcher turned up.
⁵ Or underestimated, to be fair. It's probably why 2024 was so unrepresentative, because the left⁵ people voted in a way to maximise its efficiency⁶, while the right didn't
⁶ Yes, I counted Labour as left in 2024 but who knows now. Make of that what you will.
⁷ i.e. Many people seemed to vote for the biggest not-Tory party in their constituency, not counting Reform

Edit: nothing to see here… (I added footnote ex-seven at the end, as I realised non-Brits might not know what the post-war compromise refers to, but forgot to renumber)

Why are your footnotes out of order? Last I heard, 4 was less than 7…

When it comes to policy, everyone in the party subconsciously knows that JEZZA!!!!!! will, at the very least, within two months of taking office:

• Renationalise the railways, the water industry, and all the other "public utilties"

• Give everyone a job which pays at least double the minimum wage

• Build a new fully up-to-date hospital in every major town

• Make all public transport free

• Allow everyone to work from home if they want

• Eliminate all forms of racial, religious, and minority-based discrimination

• Lift everyone out of poverty

• Ban nuclear power

• Ban the ownership of second homes

and pay for it all by adding an income tax band of 50% for annual earnings above £50000 and 10% more for each £50000 above that.

I can’t tell whether you’re being sarcastic or not…

bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Aug 19, 2025 10:35 pm I can’t tell whether you’re being sarcastic or not…

I read that as being sarcastic myself.