Zompist Bboard Again

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:08 pm I understand that coins printed with "Dear future numisthmatists: this is from the Roman Republic" found under Chinese temples aren't terribly common. But the Chinese sent silk west and got silver in return, which they melted down to make their own coinage (and yes, there were several steps between Rome and China, so it's not always clear it was Roman silver). This trade picked up speed over time, and it was probably only "a trickle" as Thorley put it during the Republic. But the west-to-east flow of silver did happen.

"A trickle" is compatible with the sources I've read. Actual merchants were not exactly crowding the Silk Road. We have tax records from Turfan from 600 BCE that records one group of merchants per week. The Chinese government sent silk west in huge quantities as gifts to minor kings, dwarfing what the traders moved around. Also, at least one source says that the Romans got their silk from India, not China.

In any case, the original question was mercantilism as it pertained to Rome, and the question of trade as a zero-sum game. I think it's fair to say that Mercantilism became increasingly stupid over time, and during the Roman empire it was at its least stupid (say, hovering around 40-60% stupid). Ideas like "Make sure your Carpathian micro-state has its own separate nutmeg colony so you don't have to buy nutmeg at market rates" that were assinine in the 18th century would have made more sense in the first half of the first millennium (if they had nutmeg, that is).

This is partly because greater international integration means that vertical integration is less essential and doesn't provide the same supply chain security that it used to. But also, it's because of (proto-)Capitalism. The money that the Duchy of Vladiblork spends on a nutmeg colony could instead be reinvested in heavy industry. If they can make their money grow faster, they can have all the nutmeg they want through dependency economics. An Aegean city-state that's been producing nothing but wheat and squid for a thousand years and has no nacient Capitalist class doesn't have any way to make their money grow faster than the nutmeg island.

If I'm following, you're saying that Renaissance traders were more capitalist than Romans and therefore mercantilism had ceased to make sense. That's pretty similar to what I said about the Romans: not really a trading nation. But so far as I know the Greeks, Arabs, and Middle Easterners were still good at it.

If you're a premodern ruler and you have a chance to seize some source of wealth, you probably do. This wasn't a Roman invention, but it's probably what they were best at. That was Spain's modus operandi too, but they had the misfortune to be competing with actual trading nations.

Anyway, my main point is that Pliny should be taken with a huge helping of salt. In economic terms, the grain the Romans stole from Egypt was far more important than the spices, textiles, ivory etc. that they got from India. (And Romans did bring stuff east, especially pottery and glassware.) Furriner-bashing has a long long history.

Checking my email, I just discovered a spam mail that was apparently trying to sell me a paper-printed directory of members and institutions of the US Congress. Um, what? As far as I can tell, the only people who might still be interested in buying a paper-printed directory of members and institutions of the US Congress in the Year of our Lord 2022 are people who follow US politics but for some reason aren't on the internet - and people who aren't on the internet by definition don't have email.

Another blog post by me - this one is shorter and more tongue-in-cheek:

https://guessishouldputthisupsomewhere. ... in-common/

Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:49 am Checking my email, I just discovered a spam mail that was apparently trying to sell me a paper-printed directory of members and institutions of the US Congress. Um, what? As far as I can tell, the only people who might still be interested in buying a paper-printed directory of members and institutions of the US Congress in the Year of our Lord 2022 are people who follow US politics but for some reason aren't on the internet - and people who aren't on the internet by definition don't have email.

Is it a politically skewed directory?

Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:26 am Another blog post by me - this one is shorter and more tongue-in-cheek:

https://guessishouldputthisupsomewhere. ... in-common/

I recently bought one of these called Why the Germans Do It Better. I'm hoping it will tell me something factual about contemporary Germany.

rotting bones wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:32 am

Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:49 am Checking my email, I just discovered a spam mail that was apparently trying to sell me a paper-printed directory of members and institutions of the US Congress. Um, what? As far as I can tell, the only people who might still be interested in buying a paper-printed directory of members and institutions of the US Congress in the Year of our Lord 2022 are people who follow US politics but for some reason aren't on the internet - and people who aren't on the internet by definition don't have email.

Is it a politically skewed directory?

I don't think so. (Though I deleted the spam, so I can't check it anymore.)

Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:58 pm I don't think so. (Though I deleted the spam, so I can't check it anymore.)

I'm not sure they would be obvious about it. There might have been a small logo somewhere, indicating that it had come from an evangelical ministry.

I seem to be on a roll when it comes to blogging this month. Here is a very rant-y post:

https://guessishouldputthisupsomewhere. ... countries/

I'm terribly sorry about Macron, Michel Barnier and Christine Lagarde. I promise not all of us are smug, condescending assholes.

In France we have the terrible habit of kicking politicians to Brussels when it becomes obvious they can't survive on the national stage.
A prime example of this is Michel Barnier (he was the dude handling the EU side of Brexit). He apparently felt some urge to 'punish' Britain for voting the wrong way, and shares equal responsability with the Tory for making the whole thing drag forever, making an already painful process into an incredible mess-up.

The views of French technocrats rarely agree with the views of the French public. I think pro-European French people have a more realistic view of things. And of course, a lot of people kinda feel like the Brits did the right thing, the EU isn't terribly popular here either.

The problem with the EU is that attitudes towards it are Thatcherian: There Is No Alternative. Everyone knows the EU has undemocratic, unworkable institutions but somehow there's nothing we can do about it.
If you happen to be suggesting any reforms you're either a) utopian b) obviously you want to leave the EU!

(Of course it turns out that when it suits the right people, the EU can be reformed. We're finally in the process of getting rid of the unanimity rule; and apparently the 3% deficit rule only applies to left-wing governments. If the conservatives are in power suddenly it's more like a guideline.)

Of course the idea of abandoning the EU altoghether feels nonsensical.
As it happens, I feel the current French constitution sucks. Of course that doesn't mean we should get rid of France altogether; the solution is constitutional reform.

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:25 am I seem to be on a roll when it comes to blogging this month. Here is a very rant-y post:

https://guessishouldputthisupsomewhere. ... countries/

Interesting; I don't really disagree with much.

I don't think French and German stereotypes are very important, for the reason you mention: the Brits were very likely unaware of them. About the only people less conscious of what other nations think of them is the US. Orwell said that in his time the Brits kind of hated everyone, especially the French, while the French couldn't really even muster up disdain for the Brits.

I doubt Great Power politics are determined by that level of stereotype... but I suspect they are greatly affected by personal relationships between rulers, good and bad. So, if you're Macron, you think about Britain through the lens of May and Johnson. (Not a very pleasant prospect.)

I wonder how the present war will affect the EU. I mean, the French-German relationship has been the key for the last half century. But one of the key players lately has been Poland, and facing Russia will become more important.

Ares Land: I've heard suggestions before that the EU was "punishing" Britain-- Krugman seems to think so. But given the unbelievable incompetence on the British side, I'm not sure what the EU could have done differently. Britain couldn't even agree with itself on what sort of a deal it wanted, or if it wanted a deal at all. And the EU could hardly offer complete access to the European market without following European regulations at all.

Why not post two posts in a day?

https://guessishouldputthisupsomewhere. ... e-on-that/

zompist wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:29 am Ares Land: I've heard suggestions before that the EU was "punishing" Britain-- Krugman seems to think so. But given the unbelievable incompetence on the British side, I'm not sure what the EU could have done differently. Britain couldn't even agree with itself on what sort of a deal it wanted, or if it wanted a deal at all. And the EU could hardly offer complete access to the European market without following European regulations at all.

Maybe 'punish' was too strong a word. The EU couldn't offer more than what it did anyway. And the Tories were, undoubtedly, extremely difficult.
I still think Barnier was a poor negotiator; I definitely think the negotiations took way, way longer than they could have; the British government is fully responsible for that... but so was Barnier.

It seems the treaty they ended up signing is pretty poorly worded anyway; among other things it's unclear on the matter of fishing rights.

The irony of all this is that Barnier is, ideologocally, very very close to the Tories. In his failed attempt at running for president, he even suggested that France simply unilateraly decide not to follow EU law on immigration.
(The objective, being, of course, stricter immigration controls.)

There certainly was a certain exasperation at the British among the other EU members - the UK already had the highest degree of exemptions and opt-out, plus a budget rebate, and still they wanted to leave. But, all in all, I don't see what Barnier realistically could have done better, short of giving the UK all the advantages of membership without any of the obligations.

hwhatting wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:12 am There certainly was a certain exasperation at the British among the other EU members - the UK already had the highest degree of exemptions and opt-out,

And that's bad because...?

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:26 am

hwhatting wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:12 am There certainly was a certain exasperation at the British among the other EU members - the UK already had the highest degree of exemptions and opt-out,

And that's bad because...?

You again overlooked the important part - "and still they wanted to leave". There was a feeling that after all the concessions the EU had made, the UK still wasn't content and always asked for more.

More stuff that might be quotable:

https://guessishouldputthisupsomewhere. ... at-part-2/

And what will probably be my last blog post for a while:

https://guessishouldputthisupsomewhere. ... f-science/

Edit: wait, there might be one more today or over the course of the next few days.

Blog blog blog - this time I'm fairly certain that it'll be the last post for now:

https://guessishouldputthisupsomewhere. ... sts-quote/

I know that I'm a bit late to this particular party, but I still find it remarkable that they're coming up with ways to make flying even less pleasant:

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/ ... index.html

I have a website now! Visit it at http://bradrn.com. Currently the only thing on it is the online version of my Brassica SCA, but that should soon change. In any case, given that it’s self-hosted, I’ve already learnt a lot by making it.

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:14 amIn any case, given that it’s self-hosted, I’ve already learnt a lot by making it.

Just noticed that part of the post. Wow.