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Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:24 pm
by Karch
/p t ts tʂ c k ʔ/ <p t ts tr ch k '>
/b d dz dʐ ɟ g/ <b d dz dr j g>
/f s ʂ x/ <f s sh x>
/z ʐ/ <z zh>
/w r l j/ <w r l y>
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n ny ng>
/i u e o ɛ ɔ a/ <i u e o ai au a>
/ʊɔ ɪɛ/ <uo ie>

Three tone levels /1 2 3/ <à a á>; up to two tones can surface on the same syllable <aa>. (C)V(C) syllables, all words begin with a consonant.

/ɟo¹gɪɛz¹ cag¹ dzɔ²³gu¹ maz³¹ pu³dʐof³tʊɔ³ fe¹tsɛ³¹ jo¹lʊɔɟ¹² ʂa² gag¹na¹² ʂa²mu² di¹ŋal³toʐ²xɔ³¹ pɪɛɲ³da²³ xam²/
Jògìèz chàg dzaúgù máàz púdróftúó fètsáì yòlùoj sha gàgnàa shamu dìngáltozhxóò píénydaá xam.

----

/mʲ mˠ | nʲ nˠ nʷ | ŋʲ ŋ ŋʷ/ <m mw ṇ n nw ṇ̄ n̄ n̄w>
/pʲ pˠ | tʲ tˠ tʷ | kʲ k kʷ/ <p pw j t tw ḳ k kw>
/bʲ bˠ | dʲ dˠ dʷ | gʲ g gʷ/ <b bw dj d dw q g gw>
/fʲ fˠ | sʲ sˠ sʷ | xʲ x xʷ/ <f fw ṣ s sw ḥ h hw>
/ɫ ɻʷ | j ɰ w / <l r y x w>

/a ɑ ɐ e ɤ ɘ i ɯ/ <a ọ ā e o ō i u>
+ nasalisation <a̱> <ô>

/ŋʷɯɰ kʲɯmˠ adˠ sʲɐ ɘnʲ ɐ ibˠ ɑ sʷaɐ ĩbʲ e ɫɑnʷɰɑnˠŋagʲ tʲɯ̃ ɑtʷwɘxʷa ɯegʲɯ̃ fˠɘ̃mˠ ĩk fˠi xʷẽk ɯ̃ɯãnˠ ɐ̃pʲ ɘ̃bʲɐdˠɤ ɘ ɑnˠemʲi kɑ etʷẽtʷsʲɘ fˠãkʲ a gɯɤɘ kʷɘk ɐ ɫĩɯpˠ ɐ̃ gɯgʷãpˠ ɐ̃fʲɑnʷ ɑŋʷ ãɰ ɯ̃nʷ adʷgʲɯ̃ ɑ̃ɘŋʲi gɘ̃adˠmʲɯ/
N̄wux ḳumw ad ṣā ōṇ ae ibw ao swaae i̱b e lọnwxọnngaq ju̱ ọtwwōhwa uequ̱ fwō̱mw i̱k fwi hwe̱k u̱ua̱n ā̱p ō̱bādo ō ọnemi kọ etwe̱twṣō fwa̱ḳ a guoō kwōk ā li̱upw ā̱ gugwa̱pw ā̱fọnw ọn̄w a̱x u̱nw adwqu̱ ôōṇ̄i gō̱admu.

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:53 pm
by bradrn
Now here’s an interesting one: Dahalo, which I have complained about before. I’ll go with the analysis of Maddieson et al. (1993) rather than that of Tosco (1991), because it has more phonemes and hence will be more interesting for this thread. Anyway, here’s the inventory:

/p b t̪ d̪ t̺ d̺ k g kʷ gʷ ʡ ʔ/
/ts dz dzʷ tʃ dʒ/
/mp mb nt̪ nd̪ nt̺ nd̺ nd̺ʷ ŋk ŋg ŋkʷ ŋgʷ/
/nts ndz ntʃ ndʒ/
/pʼ t̪ʼ t̺ʼ kʼ kʷʼ/
/tʃʼ/
/tɬʼ cʎ̥ʼ ɓ ɗ/
/ŋ̊ǀ ŋǀ ŋ̊ǀʷ ŋǀʷ/
/m n ɲ/
/f s (z) ʃ ʜ h/
/ɬ ɬʷ ʎ̥/
/w (j) l r/
Consonants can occur geminated intervocalically.
/a e i o u aː eː iː oː uː/
There is pitch accent: each non-compound word has at most one high tone (with some exceptions).

No sample text, but there is a wordlist. Here’s some words:
/ʔágaddzo ʡákake ɓóŋko rikʼa gʷiʔi ɲáʜe t̪ʼúːt̪ʼo ŋ̊ʇeːɬe haːʃíad̪a nt̺ago/
(I used ⟨ʇ⟩ to represent the click to avoid confusion with ⟨l⟩.)

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:53 am
by Karch
/p b t̪ d̪ t̺ d̺ k g kʷ gʷ ʡ ʔ/ <p b t d th dh k g kw gw q '>
/ts dz dzʷ tʃ dʒ/ <ts dz dzw ch j>
/mp mb nt̪ nd̪ nt̺ nd̺ nd̺ʷ ŋk ŋg ŋkʷ ŋgʷ/ <mp mb nt nd nth ndh ndw nk ng nkw ngw>
/nts ndz ntʃ ndʒ/ <nts ndz nch nj>
/pʼ t̪ʼ t̺ʼ kʼ kʷʼ/ <p' t' th' k' kw'>
/tʃʼ/ <ch'>
/tɬʼ cʎ̥ʼ ɓ ɗ/ <l' ly' bh dh>
/ŋ̊ǀ ŋǀ ŋ̊ǀʷ ŋǀʷ/ <xh x xhw xw>
/m n ɲ/ <m n ny>
/f s (z) ʃ ʜ h/ <f s (z) sh kh h>
/ɬ ɬʷ ʎ̥/ <lh lw ly>
/w (j) l r/ <w (y) l r>
Consonants can occur geminated intervocalically.
/a e i o u aː eː iː oː uː/ <a e i o u aa ee ii oo uu>
There is pitch accent: each non-compound word has at most one high tone <á> (with some exceptions).
/ʔágaddzo ʡákake ɓóŋko rikʼa gʷiʔi ɲáʜe t̪ʼúːt̪ʼo ŋ̊ʇeːɬe haːʃíad̪a nt̺ago/

'ágaddzo qákake bhónko rik'a gwi'i nyákhe t'uut'o xheelhe haashíada nthago

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:51 pm
by axolotl
/p b t̪ d̪ t̺ d̺ k g kʷ gʷ ʡ ʔ/
/ts dz dzʷ tʃ dʒ/
/mp mb nt̪ nd̪ nt̺ nd̺ nd̺ʷ ŋk ŋg ŋkʷ ŋgʷ/
/nts ndz ntʃ ndʒ/
/pʼ t̪ʼ t̺ʼ kʼ kʷʼ/
/tʃʼ/
/tɬʼ cʎ̥ʼ ɓ ɗ/
/ŋ̊ǀ ŋǀ ŋ̊ǀʷ ŋǀʷ/
/m n ɲ/
/f s (z) ʃ ʜ h/
/ɬ ɬʷ ʎ̥/
/w (j) l r/
Consonants can occur geminated intervocalically.
/a e i o u aː eː iː oː uː/
There is pitch accent: each non-compound word has at most one high tone (with some exceptions).
Quite the variety of consonants.

p b th dh t d k g kv gv q x (sorry to do the exact opposite of Karch, but using "th" to write anything non-dental just seems wrong to me)
ts dz dzv tj dj
mp mb nt nd nth ndh ndhv nk ng nkv ngv
nts ndz ntj ndj
px tx thx kx kvx
tjx
tlx tljx bx dx
tq tqh tqv tqhv
m n nj
f s (z) sj hq h
lh lhv lhj
w y l r

Geminated consonants: double the consonant, or double the first letter of the...multigraph, I guess.

Vowels:
a e i o u aa ee ii oo uu
pitch accent marked with acute accent

So basically, the whole idea of this is an "agglutinative orthography," where you add pieces to each grapheme to add features.
x = glottalization
j = palatalization
q = uh, something - epiglottal and also click, I guess?
h = aspiration/unvoiced/etc, or also dental in the case of t and d.
v = labialization

It's not pretty, but it's functional enough (hopefully).

Example words
xágaddzo qákake bxónko rikxa gvixi njáhqe thxúúthxo tqeelhe haasjíadha ntago
/ʔágaddzo ʡákake ɓóŋko rikʼa gʷiʔi ɲáʜe t̪ʼúːt̪ʼo ŋ̊ʇeːɬe haːʃíad̪a nt̺ago/

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:57 pm
by Nortaneous
/p b t̪ d̪ t̺ d̺ k g kʷ gʷ ʡ ʔ/ <p b th dh t d k g kw gw q '>
/ts dz dzʷ tʃ dʒ/ <ts dz dzw ch j>
/mp mb nt̪ nd̪ nt̺ nd̺ nd̺ʷ ŋk ŋg ŋkʷ ŋgʷ/ <mp mb nth ndh nt nd ndw nk ng nkw ngw>
/nts ndz ntʃ ndʒ/ <nts ndz nch nj>
/pʼ t̪ʼ t̺ʼ kʼ kʷʼ/ <p' th' t' k' kw'>
/tʃʼ/ <ch'>
/tɬʼ cʎ̥ʼ ɓ ɗ/ <lh' cl' b' d'>
/ŋ̊ǀ ŋǀ ŋ̊ǀʷ ŋǀʷ/ <nxh nx nxhw nxw>
/m n ɲ/ <m n ny>
/f s (z) ʃ ʜ h/ <f s z sh hh h>
/ɬ ɬʷ ʎ̥/ <hl hlw cl>
/w (j) l r/ <w y l r>
Consonants can occur geminated intervocalically.
/a e i o u aː eː iː oː uː/ <a e i o u aa ee ii oo uu>

/ʔágaddzo ʡákake ɓóŋko rikʼa gʷiʔi ɲáʜe t̪ʼúːt̪ʼo ŋ̊ʇeːɬe haːʃíad̪a nt̺ago/
'ágaddzo qákake b'ónko rik'a gwi'i nyáhhe th'úúth'o nxheehle haashíadha ntago

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:09 pm
by salem
/p b t̪ d̪ t̺ d̺ k g kʷ gʷ ʡ ʔ/ <p b t d ṭ ḍ k g kw gw q ‘>
/ts dz dzʷ tʃ dʒ/ <c z zw c̣ ẓ>
/mp mb nt̪ nd̪ nt̺ nd̺ nd̺ʷ ŋk ŋg ŋkʷ ŋgʷ/ <mp mb nt nd nṭ nḍ nk ng nkw ngw>
/nts ndz ntʃ ndʒ/ <nc nz ṇc̣ ṇẓ>
/pʼ t̪ʼ t̺ʼ kʼ kʷʼ/ <p’ t’ ṭ’ k’ k’w>
/tʃʼ/ <c̣’>
/tɬʼ cʎ̥ʼ ɓ ɗ/ <lh’ ḷh’ b’ d’>
/ŋ̊ǀ ŋǀ ŋ̊ǀʷ ŋǀʷ/ <xh x xhw xw>
/m n ɲ/ <m n ṇ>
/f s (z) ʃ ʜ h/ <f s z ṣ ħ h>
/ɬ ɬʷ ʎ̥/ <lh lhw ḷh>
/w (j) l r/ <w y l r>
Consonants can occur geminated intervocalically. <CC>
/a e i o u aː eː iː oː uː/ <a e i o u aa ee ii oo uu>

/ʔágaddzo ʡákake ɓóŋko rikʼa gʷiʔi ɲáʜe t̪ʼúːt̪ʼo ŋ̊ʇeːɬe haːʃíad̪a nt̺ago/
‘ágazzo qákake b’ónko rik’a gwi‘i ṇáħe t’úút’o xheelhe haaṣíada nṭago

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:20 pm
by Knit Tie
m n̪ n ɲ ŋ
b p pʰ d̪ t̪ t̪ʰ d t tʰ g k kʰ
s z ʃ ʒ ɬ x ɣ
t͡ɬ
w ɾ j

a e ɛ i o ɔ u + length + nasality

Distribution of nasal vowels is somewhat limited - as both they and the aspirated series arose from the NC clusters, the nasal vowels mostly occur before fricatives and word finally, while the aspirated series mostly occur only after plain vowels. Likewise, the long vowels are mostly only found in closed syllables, as they arose from coda plosive voicing becoming vowel length. However, both of the above trends have been breaking more and more as time goes on due to changes in morphology (mostly the advent of more synthesis) and borrowing from African languages. In particular, agglutination mashing two identical phonemes together resulted in a lot of long vowels at morpheme boundaries.

The whole nasalisation thing is further complicated by the fact that nasality spreads, across liquids and hiatus, and voiced plosives (and ʒ, for ɲ) before nasal vowels are increasingly merging with the corresponding nasals.

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:46 am
by bradrn
<m nn n nh ng>
<b p ph dd tt tth d t th g k kh>
<s z sh zh l x gh>
<tl>
<w r y>

<a e eh i o oh u>
Long vowels are <aa ee eeh ii oo ooh uu>
Nasal vowels are <ã> etc.: long nasal vowels are <ãã õõh> etc.

(Sorry about the awful formatting; on my phone right now. That’s also why I avoided diacritics, which is quite unusual for my romanisations. I would normally have preferred a circumflex below for the dentals and diacritics for /e o/.)

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:01 am
by Birdlang
m n̪ n ɲ ŋ m ṉ n ñ ŋ
b p pʰ d̪ t̪ t̪ʰ d t tʰ g k kʰ b p ph ḏ ṯ ṯh d t th g k kh
s z ʃ ʒ ɬ x ɣ s z š ž l h ġ
t͡ɬ q
w ɾ j w r j

a e ɛ i o ɔ u + length + nasality

a é e i ó o u + macron + ogonek

My own submission
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/p b t d c ɟ k g ʔ/
/f v ð s z ɮ ʃ ʒ ʝ~j x~h ɣ~ɰ/
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ ɟ͝ʝ~gʲ/
/w l ɾ/

/i y u e ø o a/

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:00 pm
by Knit Tie
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n nn ng>
/p b t d c ɟ k g ʔ/ <p b t d tt dd k g q>
/f v ð s z ɮ ʃ ʒ ʝ~j x~h ɣ~ɰ/ <f v th dh s z lh sh zh j h gh>
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ ɟ͝ʝ~gʲ/ <ts dz tsh dj ddj>
/w l ɾ/ <w l r>

/i y u e ø o a/ <i u ou e oe o a>

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:53 pm
by axolotl
Birdlang wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:01 am /m n ɲ ŋ/
/p b t d c ɟ k g ʔ/
/f v ð s z ɮ ʃ ʒ ʝ~j x~h ɣ~ɰ/
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ ɟ͝ʝ~gʲ/
/w l ɾ/

/i y u e ø o a/
m n nj nh
p b t d kj gj k g q
f v dh s z lh sj zj y kh gh
ts dz tsj dzj dj
w l r

i uj u e oj o a

Basically, a system using h and j as digraph-letters, with no need for anything beyond the standard 26-letter Latin alphabet. j marks palatalization of any kind, while h marks frication (with the exception of nh, which is written that way so as to avoid awkwardness in dealing with distinctions between /ŋ/ and /ŋg/).

If /t͡s d͡z t͡ʃ d͡ʒ/ are phonemically distinct from t+s d+z t+ʃ d+ʒ (I've assumed in this that they aren't), then the alternate romanizations <c x cj xj> can be used.

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:27 pm
by Emily
Knit Tie wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:20 pm /m n̪ n ɲ ŋ/ m nh n nj ng
/b p pʰ d̪ t̪ t̪ʰ d t tʰ g k kʰ/ <b p pf dh th tzh d t tz g k ck>
/s z ʃ ʒ ɬ x ɣ/ <s z sh zh lh kh gh>
/t͡ɬ/ <x>
/w ɾ j/ <w r y>

/a e ɛ i o ɔ u/ <a ê e i ô o u>; nasality with an ogonek, length with double characters (aa, êê, ǫǫ, etc.)
Birdlang wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:01 am /m n ɲ ŋ/ <м н н* ҥ>
/p b t d c ɟ k g ʔ/ <п б т д т* д* к г ъ>
/f v ð s z ɮ ʃ ʒ ʝ~j x~h ɣ~ɰ/ <ф в ҙ с з л* ш ж ј** х ғ>
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ ɟ͝ʝ~gʲ/ <ц ѕ ч џ г*>
/w l ɾ/ <ў л р>

/i y u e ø o a/
regular: <і ү у е ө о а>
iotating: <и ұ ю є ӫ ё я>
* when followed by an iotating vowel
** symbol not used initially; #jV written with iotating vowel
or if you prefer something a little more strictly reflecting the thread title:
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n ñ ň>
/p b t d c ɟ k g ʔ/ <p b t d c j k g h>
/f v ð s z ɮ ʃ ʒ ʝ~j x~h ɣ~ɰ/ <f v ð s z ł š ž y x ğ>
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ ɟ͝ʝ~gʲ/ <ť ď č ǰ ǧ>
/w l ɾ/ <w l r>

/i y u e ø o a/ <i ü u e ö o a>

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:28 pm
by Emily
btw, it really helps with these to know the phonotactics of the language in question, particularly any potential clusters/variations that might affect digraphs. just a thought for future posters

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:38 pm
by axolotl
I challenge you to romanize this. This is an abandoned attempted conlang of mine from several months ago, and its inventory is basically what happened when I went a little too crazy with monophthongizations and then decided to add a whole lot of liquids because why not.

The vowels are as follows:
i y u
e̝ ɪ ʊ
e ø ɤ o
ɛ œ ɔ
æ ä ɑ ɒ

On a vowel chart, they look like this. Yes, those are all meant to be phonemic. If I remember correctly, my premise was that it developed from a diphthong-heavy language through a series of monophthongizations. There are no phonemic diphthongs.
And the consonants:
pɸ ts kx (Written this way for lack of a better symbol. These stops are very strongly aspirated, sometimes reaching a point of affrication. Idea stolen from Danish affrication of /t/ and English initial /kl/ -> [kxl].
p t k (these can vary from weakly aspirated to partially voiced)
b d g (these can vary from partially voiced stops to voiced approximants - think Spanish)
f s h
m n
l ɫ ʎ r ɹ r̝~ʒ~ʃ j ɥ w
Other notes:
Syllables are CVC and no clusters are disallowed. The approximant-rhotic does not have the numerous secondary articulations and complexities that it has in English - it is more akin to the approximant present in, for example, Albanian.

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:10 pm
by Nortaneous
i y u <i ü u>
e̝ ɪ ʊ <ï ie uo>
e ø ɤ o <e ö ë o>
ɛ œ ɔ <ei eü ou>
æ ä ɑ ɒ <ai ä a au>

pɸ ts kx <ph th kh>
p t k <p t k>
b d g <b d g>
f s h <f s h>
m n <m n>
l ɫ ʎ r ɹ r̝~ʒ~ʃ j ɥ w <l lh ly r rh ry y wy y>

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:33 am
by bradrn
/i y u/ ⟨i ï u⟩
/e̝ ɪ ʊ/ ⟨ê î û⟩
/e ø ɤ o/ ⟨e ë ö o⟩
/ɛ œ ɔ/ ⟨ẹ ẹ̈ ọ⟩
/æ ä ɑ ɒ/ ⟨ă a ä ŏ⟩

/pɸ ts kx/ ⟨ph th kh⟩
/p t k/ ⟨p t k⟩
/b d g/ ⟨b d g⟩
/f s h/ ⟨f s h⟩
/m n/ ⟨m n⟩
/l ɫ ʎ r ɹ r̝~ʒ~ʃ j ɥ w/ ⟨l ł ľ r ṟ z y ÿ w⟩

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:07 pm
by Birdlang
/i y u/ i ü u
/e̝ ɪ ʊ/ í ì ù
/e ø ɤ o/ é ő ë ó
/ɛ œ ɔ/ e ö o
/æ ä ɑ ɒ/ æ a á ò

/pɸ ts kx/ v c x
/p t k/ p t k
/b d g/ b d g
/f s h/ f s h
/m n/ m n
/l ɫ ʎ r ɹ r̝~ʒ~ʃ j ɥ w/ l ł y r z ž j ÿ w
Edited:

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:11 pm
by Birdlang
Edit: finally came up with something for my own submission
I like the ideas
/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ñ ŋ
/p b t d c ɟ k g ʔ/ p b t d c ď k g q
/f v ð s z ɮ ʃ ʒ ʝ~j x~h ɣ~ɰ/ f v ð s z ƚ š ž j h ǥ
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ ɟ͝ʝ~gʲ/ ţ ḑ č ʒ ǧ
/w l ɾ/ w l r

/i y u e ø o a/ i ü u e ö o a
I liked the one with the diacritics, so I modified it a little.

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:02 pm
by bradrn
Birdlang wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:11 pm i y u i ü u
e̝ ɪ ʊ í ì ù
e ø ɤ o é ő ë ó
ɛ œ ɔ e ö o
æ ä ɑ ɒ æ a á ò

pɸ ts kx φ c x
p t k p t k
b d g b d g
f s h f s h
m n m n
l ɫ ʎ r ɹ r̝~ʒ~ʃ j ɥ w l ł y r z ž j ÿ w
Could you edit this please to make it clear that you’re responding to a previous submission? At first reading I thought you were proposing a new challenge, and then got awfully confused wondering what IPA symbol φ was supposed to be…

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:58 pm
by bradrn
This is a new language I’m working on at the moment. I already have a romanization which I’m satisfied with, but I’m interested to see what other ideas people can come up with!

Consonants:
/m n ŋ/
/p b t d k g ʔ/
/s z ʃ ʒ h/
/w j/
/r/

Vowels:
Short vowels: /a e i o/
Long vowels: /aː eː iː oː/

Phonotactics:
Syllable structure is (C)(C)V(C). For now, all single consonants are allowed in both the onset and coda (although I may change this later for the glottal stop). Only some consonant clusters are allowed in the onset, but the details shouldn’t matter for this thread. (Roughly: stop+fricative, stop+nasal, any+approximant, with some restrictions.) For the vowels, short vowels can only appear in closed syllables (i.e. those with a coda), while long vowels can occur in any syllable.

Sample sentences:
/woːgek ʒaːgek jaːʒgiwohnem haːz jaːwkwaː/
/jaːtsap peʒiːŋ jaːjargiziːŋwim noːseʔikiː/