Zompist Bboard Again

Staving this from the Conworld Random Thread:

The Tim Ar system of administrative divisions is…messy.

The "main line of succession":
- At the top you have the kedén îktu 'empire'.
- Next comes the mgíḫ 'viceroyalty' (of which there are five: Uluhír, West Kaordér, the Core Imperium, Keleked, and Kéntagantene).
- Below that, you have the êu 'theme'.
- The ḫôrág 'riding' is a handful of smaller divisions (typically three to seven make up a theme).
- After the riding is the łiłtúge 'canton'
- At the bottom is the kámr 'city'.
- As a bonus, there is concept of the kámr ḫér 'free city', which is a city directly answering to the theme. There are two, both in the Core Imperium: Ágmrgámr (the City of Cities), the capital, and Írödkámr (World City), a sort of city-sized UN zone.
- There is also the concept of the ares ḫér úh iénhu 'special administrative zone'. These skip straight to the kámr level (i.e., there are no intervening divisions). There are two of these, namely Ḫurgéłis (Hurkélis) and Msíriún (the Mziddyun).

It wouldn't be a good, realistic system without the omustá (sg. moustá), which add more than a few wrinkles:

- There's one úh neém 'condominium', Úh Neém Támreg (the Täptäg Condominium). The condominium is divisible into a smaller unit, the sanhián 'prefecture', and thence the city. Some prefectures are coterminous with cities.
- The ninráḫ 'banner' is a military state or junta that has been incorporated. There are four: Ákłi (Oqsh), Kal Iháni, Teherís (Deverris), and Uúrlatłára (Wur Jara). These are divisible into a smaller unit called an en n'éarig 'vingtaine' and thence the city.
- There are also the concept of the arëm 'castellany' and the káirén 'palatinate', former city-states or similar, smaller entities that merged with the empire willingly—so they got perks/special privileges. The difference between the two is whether there was a significant garrison or not at the time of annexation. Where required, these are split into the ûl 'quarter' or 'district' level.
- The lone dołar î sagïs 'papal state' divides into the ómakses 'circle', then the kástïs 'moot', then the city.
- The łektóron 'dependency' is a constituent state that has been absorbed and is not otherwise specified. These divide into the province (úh dohár) and the county (lûg) before the city.

A brief history of the early days of the Tim Ar.

The Tim Ar are a Beheic people, speaking a Beheic language. The Beheic cultural complex existed roughly sometime in the Second or late Third Millennium BC on the grasslands of central Máranhír. At some point, for unclear reasons, a contingent of the Beheic peoples migrated south, towards the Burning Mountains (the PTO cultural complex). The Tim Ar and the Greater O eventually split off from each other, with the proto-Tim Ar venturing more southward still, towards the mountains. At some point, the Burning Mountains gained supreme cultural import for what would become the Tim Ar.

Eventually the proto-Tim Ar settled down and built a few cities. Aside from occasional trade, they mostly kept to themselves and slaughtered each other. We don't have much Tim Ar writing from that time—there is some, but it's scarce, rudimentary, and given to lacking quality—but we do have external sources: Primarily the Bāds, who ultimately fell to them; the Classical Khaya, who become important later; and, if you can believe it, the Caber (there do appear to be a few instances of references to Tim Ar names in some of the earliest Caber writings; one theory for the origin of the name-glyph was because Tim Ar names tended to be long, so unprepared readers would come across a long string of seeming nonsense, but this is unlikely), Then came the founding father of the Tim Ar, Sa Sárde. (Would you believe this is a reference to Mr. Saturday?! Has been for over a decade. He was friendly to me back then, so I named Sa Sárde—back then Sádrdé—as a friendly nod.)

Now, Sa Sárde existed, as confirmed by various sources such as the Caber, the Classical Khaya who had come into existence by this time, and the Bãds (and a few others, but they're not important right now). The general consensus is that his reign starts in -1386 CYY (506 BC), which is when we get external mention of Sa Sárde as having successfully consolidated the Tim Ar under his power. (There's a few other dates that might work depending on how you consider the events.) Naturally, there's a lot that is likely legend, but there's a surprising amount that's said about him that's consistent amongst different sources.

He had a considerable founder effect on the Tim Ar, echoes of which can still be seen today (3388 AD):
- He was a family man. Very much so. He literally united the Tim Ar tribes because he felt that kinslaying was basically the worst. The principle of mho náaḫl r ohi (loosely rendered, 'brother shall not kill brother') started with him.
- The above importance he placed on family also ended up forming the basis of what would become the Tim Ar caste system.
- He formalized the Kihê kôn Nihnîd Łíłïk ü (the Six Great Thefts).
- He really, really loved the Burning Mountains.
- And he really, really, really hated the Bāds.

There's considerable speculation as to whether Sa Sárde was ethnically Tim Ar at all. His affinity for the mountains is unusually strong given the Tim Ar's affinity for the lowlands, and he (and specifically he) is credited with naming the Six Great Thefts. As to their number, the Tim Ar count by tens; it's the surrounding cultures—including the O—who use base-six (or, in the case of the Khaya, base-twelve). That said, the Bãds never expanded into the Burning Mountains, so his grudge against them wouldn't make sense for someone actually from the Burning Mountains; the Khaya dominated there, and there was a more or less uneasy truce between the two polities that each would keep out of the other's sphere of influence.

Whereas we refer to the 'house' of some ruling dynasty, úh iḫógo (lit. 'that which is bred', cf. iḫógo '(as verb) to breed, to generate, to produce stock, to multiply; (as noun) pedigree; one's life history') is the analogous CT term. The first úh iḫógo of the Tim Ar was, naturally, that of Sa Sárde, and that lasted until the accession of the House of Tíḫeḫ in -1170 CYY (218 BC).

It was also during the rule of Sa Sárde that the Mute Caber became assimilated into the Tim Ar. The traditional tale states that the king was informed of the Mute Caber's plight; the peoples were then subject to substantial harassment by the Core Caber peoples, and this is said to have infuriated Sa Sárde to hear, and he is said to have exclaimed, "Áge r rel reá!" (roughly meaning 'This will not do!' or 'This cannot/must not/shall not be!'). He welcomed the Mute Caber essentially as refugees. The Core Caber mention him in their records as having the impudence to intercede in their affairs, so it appears that this account is actually somewhat accurate.

It didn't take long for the ideal of brother-not-killing-brother to lose its luster, and a civil war broke out in -1064 CYY (77 BC). The line of Tíḫeḫ had been extinguished, and there was no clear successor. There was no king for several years. What ended up happening was, two rival claimants were basically in a cold war where they both didn't want to make the first move due to brother-shall-not-kill-brother, but it was clear that something was going to end up going down. The traditional account has it that the more popular of the two finally willed himself to kinslay, and then expected that he would be received well by his supporter base. This backfired in spectacular fashion as the mob turned on him in a fit of blind rage. The local army garrison is said to have scrambled and managed to make progress in combating the chaos "with an admirable lack of blood", but then a local judge showed up and declared the entire mob was guilty of kinslaying and so would receive the death penalty. The mob and the army turned on the judge.

Problem is that with both claimants dead, we end up in an even worse situation because there are now no legitimate heirs, and not only that, the scribal class is pissed. We get a few years of basically a country-wide blood feud with an impressive body count. Due to the proscription on kinslaying, this conflict proved to be the start of the time-honored Tim Ar tradition of sending soldiers of other ethnic origins to do their dirty work. This, unfortunately, meant the Caber. (This has led to some negative sentiment towards the Caber to various degrees at various times, but the negativity was largely shed around the time of the Red Death and the Color Wars.) It's worth noting that the Tim Ar were transparent about using the Caber as ethnic pawns; the skirmishes and assassinations were often painted as originating from some malcontent refugee.

The ultimate victor in all of this was Lo Ḫáhtes, who took office in -1061 CYY (73 BC). He is a well-regarded figure among the Mute Caber diaspora for the fact that the use of the refugees as black ops units horrified him. One of the first things he did was abolish the use of Caber as mercenary agents and issue a formal apology for the practice. He additionally afforded them special privileges, rights, or entitlements within the caste system. His house lasted until the Môon took over in -912 CYY (126 AD). They themselves were succeeded by the Ḫrgar in -853 CYY (151 AD).

Another succession crisis happened in -832 CYY (232 AD), which led to another civil war. This situation was rather quickly coöpted by and resulted in centuries of subordination to the Caber. But that's a story for another time.

The hawaladar clans of the Tim Ar were, at their earliest days, moneylenders and ersatz bankers. They were useful because they practiced hawala, which is basically money transfer without actually transferring money. Simplified explanation: Say I wanted to send zompist $10'000, but he and I are in different localities—for convenience, let's say he's in Mounia and I'm in Joasi (if I can pull from the PCK for this example). I would go to a hawaladar in Joasi, give him the $10'000, and instruct him to pay it to zompist in Mounia. The hawaladar goes through his network of contacts and finds a hawaladar he knows in Mounia and contacts him, saying "Pay $10'000 to zompist for me. I'm good for it." Some sort of verification is agreed upon (Wikipedia gives the example of a password, but conceivably there are other methods). Then zompist goes to the hawaladar in Mounia, gives the password or verifies the transaction another way, and the hawaladar in Mounia pays him out the $10'000. The two hawaladars trust that they will settle up the debt at some point. This settlement need not be monetary—you can exchange land, give daughters in marriage, transfer employees, provide some sort of luxury compensation, or even, if you're feeling generous, forgive the debt entirely. Also, sometimes you'll have proportions of money going back and forth between hawaladars, so just usual everyday business can, in theory, balance the books on its own initiative.

The hawaladar families were bigwigs in the Tim Ar communities. They had a lot of connections to a lot of the Tim Ar communities in general, and it was incredibly common to have dozens of contacts, acquired through a lifetime of experience and centuries of family tradition, in various corners of wherever the Tim Ar might be found. As time went on, they gained further social functions—they often served as notaries, formal witnesses, judges, and guardians of information, but they also had the less formal but also very important duty of serving as the social lifelines between the various settlements. (This in addition to their financial obligations!) Hawala has the advantage that it can ignore borders and need not, senso strictu, require high technology to undertake. Ultimately, it became Tim Ar SOP that when they first conquered some territory, they would sponsor a few hawaladars to settle in the newly claimed lands to provide monetary and societal support.

Once more with mountains:

Man in Space wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 1:15 am Once more with mountains:

thats a lotttttttttttttttttttttttttt of mountains. most impressive.

Those are some sexy maps. How did you make them?

keenir wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 2:00 am

Man in Space wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 1:15 amOnce more with mountains:

thats a lotttttttttttttttttttttttttt of mountains. most impressive.

Thank you!

Darren wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 2:21 amThose are some sexy maps. How did you make them?

Thank you! A program called Campaign Cartographer 3+. Picked it up in a Humble Bundle a little while ago.

The Tim Ar kinship system is fraught with nuance. They are the holotypical patriarchal culture on Íröd, and they practice Omaha kinship.

eámr 'father, paternal uncle'
móm 'mother, maternal aunt, daughter of maternal uncle or son thereof'
nég 'son, male child in own patrilineage'
tíkdar 'daughter, female child in own patrilineage'
sélta 'paternal aunt'
tohó 'maternal uncle or son thereof'
hö 'brother, son of paternal uncle'
mûkhú 'sister, daughter of paternal uncle'
kûor 'child of paternal aunt, child of móm' (I'm not typing all that out)
odán 'nephew, male child outside of your patrilineage'
súrgí 'niece, female child outside of your patrilineage'

For instance, I have several ugíor scattered throughout the country. One of mine umíkhú got married last year (I think it was? I hope it hasn't been two years already!) and I got to be a part of it.

To go beyond this, a couple strategies are employed:
- Reduplication: eámreámr 'paternal grandfather', móhmóm 'maternal grandmother, mother of móm',
- Repurposing existing words: maran dêg 'maternal grandfather, father of móm' < 'business partner'; súlag 'granddaughter in own patrilineage, brother's granddaughter in own patrilineage' < 'joy'.
- Derivation: té töhir 'grandson or brother's son in own patrilineage' < 'he who thrives'.
- Inventing a compound: náiradtér 'paternal great-grandmother' < 'wise woman', ḫedáreámr 'paternal great-grandfather' < 'old-father', uḫalmóm 'maternal great-grandmother, mother of móhmóm' < 'the one before grandmother'.
- The next generation back is formed using éamr or móm + the genitive n; that forward, nég and tíkdar + n for your own patrilineage. Usually it's enough to say someone is an odán or súrgi and leave it at that, though ikłe (q.v.) can be used if you need to be pedantic.
- Further relations are made using the preposition ikłe 'times': éamr ikłe dúnki ĝ ḫedáreámr 'paternal great-great-great-grandfather' (lit. 'a father twice over of one's paternal great-grandfather'), nég ikłe kihê n té töhir 'great-great-great-great-great-great-grandson in one's own patrilineage, or whatever the equivalent is with the appropriate descent from other relatives' (lit. 'the son (or whatever) six times over of one's grandson (or whatever) in one's own patrilineage'). (IT'S 3:12 AM HERE, MY BRAIN IS FRIED, AND LIKE AN IDIOT I'M CONWORLDING INSTEAD OF SLEEPING.)
- odán and súrgi also take ikłe + integer if it's absolutely necessary.

It's not clear exactly what motivated this, but CT developed a preposition ré 'child of', used with the patronym. It appears to be related to the noun ré (pl. ere) 'heir'.

I've explained before that the Tim Ar have strict rules on whom you can marry. That's not to say you can't have a mistress (or several) from a lower status, and the children of plaçées have equal claim to your patriliny from a legal and customary standpoint, though naturally they are the subject of some discrimination of varying formality.

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Plants on Íröd don't have green chlorophyll. Instead, the ecological niche filled by plants on Earth is populated by three, count' em, three distinct types of "plants":
- The ídĝkü are the yellow plants (you could alternatively call them white plants; some are, and the Tim Ar color space is really red/bright/dark anyway).
- The ogiglu are the black plants.
- The ógareł are the red plants.

In The Conlanger's Lexipedia, zompist suggested getting a little inventive with your crop glosses. I think that's a brilliant idea, but I'd like a way to separate out everything. What I got so far:

- Fruit: "Lime" for yellow plants (yes, yes, I know, but the lime is the OG and the lemon a cultivar, and v.s. about the Tim Ar color space), "fruit" for black plants, "apple" for red plants.
- Nut/Seed: "Seed" for yellow plants, "nut" for black plants, "pepper" for red plants (a bit of a misnomer, but it seemed the least troublesome solution).
- Grain: "Corn" for yellow plants (for hopefully obvious reasons), "rice" for black plants, "wheat" for red plants.
- Tubers: "Yam" for yellow plants, "root" for black plants, "onion" for red plants.

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Now onto the question of the ocean. I was originally conceiving it of as having a significant amount of dissolved iron in it (contra the inland bodies of water, which were fresh). I'm curious as to the implications of this, however, and I'm considering ditching it if it becomes too much of an issue.
- I've seen conflicting evidence on whether such an ocean would be red/brown or green.
- I presume a lot of cookware would be ceramic in areas with seafood-heavy diets.
- Acid rain…would that be more of a problem?
- Is it even plausible to have iron-rich oceans but freshwater for the inland ecosystem? Would the iron evaporate with the water and precipitate out?

Man in Space wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:15 am - The ídĝkü are the yellow plants (you could alternatively call them white plants; some are, and the Tim Ar color space is really red/bright/dark anyway).
- The ogiglu are the black plants.
- The ógareł are the red plants.

How closely related are these? If they form separate kingdoms (or even divisions), I’d be surprised if they all have ‘fruits’, ‘seeds’, or ‘tubers’ (although I guess they might have convergent organs, like the ‘fruit’ of Ginkgo and some conifers).

Now onto the question of the ocean. I was originally conceiving it of as having a significant amount of dissolved iron in it (contra the inland bodies of water, which were fresh). I'm curious as to the implications of this, however, and I'm considering ditching it if it becomes too much of an issue.
- I've seen conflicting evidence on whether such an ocean would be red/brown or green.

From a purely chemical point of view: I’d guess probably both, depending on local oxidation conditions! Iron(II) tends to be greenish, and Iron(III) brownish, though with a lot of variation. I did manage to find an article (https://doi.org/10.1126/science.160.3829.729) suggesting that the predominant form on the early Earth would have been Fe(II).

- Acid rain…would that be more of a problem?

Acid rain today seems to be caused by atmospheric sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide reacting with rain to produce sulfuric and nitric acid respectively. In the absence of non-natural emissions of those compounds, it would have to depend on the composition of your atmosphere.

- Is it even plausible to have iron-rich oceans but freshwater for the inland ecosystem? Would the iron evaporate with the water and precipitate out?

I doubt dissolved iron would evaporate; it would probably stay behind in the sea, like salt on Earth. You could test this yourself, though.

Dissolved iron won't evaporate.

Responses, collapsed: ----

It occurred to me that it would make sense for some sort of sandhi processes to occur in CT. To some extent this already happens with the assimilatory nasal of the measure-words and the genitive particle. I am now considering extending this to derivational morphemes generally. So, for instance, the voicing rules would trigger following a terminal vowel or voiced consonant…unless the next word starts with /h/, in which case terminal r g often revert back into t k.

Examples:

- î ADJECTIVIZER + tega 'humus' > î rega 'earthy'
- té AGENT PARTICIPLE + töhir 'to thrive' > té röhir 'one who thrives' > 'grandson'
- té AGENT PARTICIPLE (pl. ét) + tëg 'to kick' > té rëg 'kicker' (pl. éh tëg)
- tël 'study of' + konér 'wrong, incorrect' > tël gonér 'root cause analysis; post-disaster inquest'
- tël 'study of' + löhsi 'extraversion, friendliness' > tëh löhsi 'sociology'
- sêm 'place of' + mgói 'to heal' > sêh mgói 'infirmary, sick bay'
- ḫág 'instance of' + hákda 'to feel' > ḫák hákda 'sensation'
- ḫág 'instance of' + són 'twilight' > ḫák són 'dusk'
- kedén PATIENT + nsa 'to show allegiance to' > kedéh nsa '(military rank)'
- ir REFLEXIVE PARTICIPLE + hesa 'to sharpen, to chip away at' > it hesa 'autonomous'

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The Tim Ar conceive of ten different types of basic taste sensations:

- tïí 'sweet' (< CC tŭi 'sap, tree sap, resin')
- esëgó 'sour' (cf. PTa *etʲɤlɔ 'sour')
- î ásał 'salty' (< nmlz. of ásał 'table salt')
- ĝïĝno 'bitter'
- kíhĝí 'savory, umami'
- î ḫíh 'cool, mentholated' (< ḫíh 'to wash, to clean')
- rohtor 'astringent'
- î lugna 'metallic' (< lugna 'metal')
- î rega 'earthy, plant-like' (< tega 'humus')

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CT has a construction called the rîs 'summit, peak'. It functions sort of as an elative nominalizer; you take a plural noun and jam it on the front of the singular form. The gist is "X of Xs".

kámr 'city' > Ágmrgámr 'capital of the Tim Ar Empire'
sihtí 'death' > isarísihtí 'drawing, quartering, and burning'
norág 'nation' > ontágnorág 'alliance, confederacy, union'
hes 'root' > eashes 'building foundation'
maran 'man, male' > amranmaran 'commander-in-chief'
łimo 'hero' > iłmołimo 'savior'
nug 'volcano' > Unanug 'name of volcano'
kámgo 'drive, impulse, force of will' > ágmaogámgo 'zeal, devotion'
ĝuáí 'target, goal, designee' > uĝáíĝuáí 'wanted man, subject of an assassination order'
łaös 'help, aid, assistance' > ałösłaös 'welfare, the dole'

For words that take a plural in ar, you prefix the ar. (I could easily see analogy extending this method for all nouns with the full compound variants being retained as specialized words.) This is written as a direct prefix on the word other than as its own morpheme to reduce confusion.

oisog 'passage, text' > aroisog 'chronicle, annals, records'
oḫí 'ditch' > Aroḫí 'name of valley'
éamr 'father' > aréamr 'founding father, dynastic ancestor'
ísúl 'coarse sand' > arísúl 'glass'

If you're elevating a derived term, alter the derivational morpheme only:

áh dúhłë 'meal, course' > aráh dúhłë 'feast, large meal gathering'
ḫág mektéḫ 'difficulty' > áhaḫág mektéḫ 'insurmountable obstacle'
káud húga 'key' > águdkáud húga 'master key, skeleton key'
sêm riên 'smithy' > esúmsêm riên 'armory'

Sêm can also be used to designate deposits or caches of natural resources; typically, the rîs forms in these cases indicate mines or other refinery operations.

sêm lïhis 'salt deposit, salt flat' > esúmsêm lïhis 'salt mine'
sêm lugna sígna 'uranium deposit' > esúmsêm lugna signa 'uranium mine'

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I think I should revamp the designation of the continents.

Naturally, the big slab of land shaped like a cow has a name: Íar ü 'the lands', or just Íar. It's often split into three continents for geological and historic/political reasons.

I've spoken about the Messerini line before—generally, above it, you find patriarchies, and below it, matriarchies. The Tim Ar, who are of course north of it, named their continent (more correctly, their part of the supercontinent) 'man's land', and that of (ultimately) the Tlar Kyanà 'woman's land'. The names are slightly different than expected by phonological rules, evincing their slightly archaic origins: maran 'man, male' + hír 'land' > Maramhír (n > m before h is a common alternation in CT due to historical reasons, and the morphemes were sufficiently bound at the time the change occurred to trigger it in the term); ter (< *tet) 'woman, female' + hír 'land' > Tethír (and not Terhír). The third continent is Sêmásał '(place of the) salt flats'.

Not a continent, but a significant island off to the west is Éĝéhsîu 'island where the weather happens' (i.e. it rains a lot). (This supersedes the previous name Ḫurgéłis.) The north region of the island claimed by the Tim Ar as a special administrative zone. It's basically their Afghanistan. The big cauliflower-head-shaped continent off to the north is Rḫalhír, named for the Irghal peoples who have expanded throughout it. Between Maramhír and Rḫalhír is the island of Oi, whose name comes ultimately from Proto-Oido *oi, which is what the Woy called it (*oi-do 'inhabitants of Oi'; with reflexes including "Woy", "Valo", "Unu", "Yer", and "Ajau").

There are three large landmasses in the southwest. They are taken together and considered to be Tuónhír ('Twonotwolo land', named for the Twonotwolo). The eastern continent is Tuónhír Kidge 'Near Tuónhír', the western Tuónhír Gadë 'Far Tuónhír'. The island to the south is Sêm Nóori 'place of shedding/molting', which name was acquired thanks to the ice fields encountered there.

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The Burning Mountains (CT Áhrag ü Ĝseg Hae, lit. 'the mountains that burn') are a spine of volcanically active mountains that crosses Maranhír. The Tim Ar have long associated themselves with the range, and there was a long-standing cultural desire to claim them as their own; Bleffys Údd basically made that a reality. The river valley complex in the center-right of the map is the Lé Mêĝ, essentially Íröd's Papua New Guinea with all of its valleys and mountains and stuff. Linguistically incredibly diverse. It's also considered a no-man's-land by the Tim Ar; their experience and martial practice were incredibly ill-suited for that sort of an environment, and ultimately they basically conquered everything around it, declared it a forbidden zone, and moved on. Naturally, lots of criminal lowlifes have attempted to make use of it.

The big long river to the south is the River Sobadegh (Sóharég), the longest river on Íröd. Some of the earliest signs of civilization come from the area—as it is the major river through the otherwise unforgiving desert, it was able to support a modest population and keep them hanging around for awhile, but a combination of salinization of the arable areas, climate change, natural disasters, and the Red Death occurring a few years after the turn of the Fourth Century BC. The few settlements there are recent. The Mziddyun (CT Msíriún, borrowed from a local language), the desert through which the Sobadegh runs, gives its name to the weird thing jutting into the desert in the interior of the continent. The Tim Ar hold it as a special administrative region. It extends all the way down to the Banner of Wur Jara (Ninráḫ n Uúrlatłára), the southernmost extremity of the Tim Ar Empire.

The Mziddyun is also home to a Sprachbund where the common feature is triliteral roots; the peoples speaking these languages are:

- Gah yo Akišṭ, the "Destroyed People", though actually not the least-populous group
- Nyudyene, a modest amount of people thereof in several clades speaking different, though related, languages
- Raholg, of whom there are a lot, but not nearly as much as the Wǫkratąk
- Sengin, the smallest group; speaks a linguistic isolate
- Wǫkratąk, the OG Sprachbund success story

It was the Wǫkratąk who established the civilizations along the Sobadegh; the collapse of their riverine civilization led to a migration southward and even more encounters with the other four populations. During the Red Death, the oasis city of Ḫántisúr eventually gained status as a hub for the peoples of the Mziddyun; to this day, permission from the city nobles is required to enter it or go north of it, or at least that's what the nobles would like you to think. The denizens of the Mziddyun are largely left to their own devices by the Tim Ar administration so long as they don't interfere with official operations, e.g. mining, defense—having people who know how to survive in the desert be willing to help you survive in the desert is a net benefit, who knew?

You know, I only just realised that you have a website: http://galen.conlang.org/. (It was searching for Bleffys Údd that led me to it; I was wondering it the name was Welsh.) I’ve been curious for a while if you had a grammar for Ĝare n Tim Ar, so this is very helpful! Although I must confess that the line-by-line loading and the blinking cursor is a bit distracting…

Man in Space wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:15 am Plants on Íröd don't have green chlorophyll. Instead, the ecological niche filled by plants on Earth is populated by three, count' em, three distinct types of "plants":
- The ídĝkü are the yellow plants (you could alternatively call them white plants; some are, and the Tim Ar color space is really red/bright/dark anyway).
- The ogiglu are the black plants.
- The ógareł are the red plants.

This is actually very cool. I might try something like this.

Man in Space wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 2:39 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 3:15 am

Man in Space wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:15 am- The ídĝkü are the yellow plants (you could alternatively call them white plants; some are, and the Tim Ar color space is really red/bright/dark anyway).
- The ogiglu are the black plants.
- The ógareł are the red plants.

How closely related are these? If they form separate kingdoms (or even divisions), I’d be surprised if they all have ‘fruits’, ‘seeds’, or ‘tubers’ (although I guess they might have convergent organs, like the ‘fruit’ of Ginkgo and some conifers).

They're like archaea and bacteria. Basically sister kingdoms.

Rereading this… assuming you meant ‘sister domains’, that’s quite the evolutionary distance, given that on Earth all living organisms fall into only two domains (bacteria, and archaea+eukaryotes). How did Twin Aster get three separate domains of ‘plants’ alone?

bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 3:02 amYou know, I only just realised that you have a website: http://galen.conlang.org/. (It was searching for Bleffys Údd that led me to it; I was wondering it the name was Welsh.) I’ve been curious for a while if you had a grammar for Ĝare n Tim Ar, so this is very helpful! Although I must confess that the line-by-line loading and the blinking cursor is a bit distracting…

Yup, that's me (although that site is in dire need of updates)!

masako wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 7:40 am

Man in Space wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:15 amPlants on Íröd don't have green chlorophyll. Instead, the ecological niche filled by plants on Earth is populated by three, count' em, three distinct types of "plants":
- The ídĝkü are the yellow plants (you could alternatively call them white plants; some are, and the Tim Ar color space is really red/bright/dark anyway).
- The ogiglu are the black plants.
- The ógareł are the red plants.

This is actually very cool. I might try something like this.

Thank you!

bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 8:19 am

Man in Space wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 2:39 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 3:15 amHow closely related are these? If they form separate kingdoms (or even divisions), I’d be surprised if they all have ‘fruits’, ‘seeds’, or ‘tubers’ (although I guess they might have convergent organs, like the ‘fruit’ of Ginkgo and some conifers).

They're like archaea and bacteria. Basically sister kingdoms.

Rereading this… assuming you meant ‘sister domains’, that’s quite the evolutionary distance, given that on Earth all living organisms fall into only two domains (bacteria, and archaea+eukaryotes). How did Twin Aster get three separate domains of ‘plants’ alone?

I misunderstood. They're separate kingdoms.

bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 3:02 am You know, I only just realised that you have a website: http://galen.conlang.org/. (It was searching for Bleffys Údd that led me to it; I was wondering it the name was Welsh.) I’ve been curious for a while if you had a grammar for Ĝare n Tim Ar, so this is very helpful! Although I must confess that the line-by-line loading and the blinking cursor is a bit distracting…

The web site revives the visual aesthetic of 1980s PC displays. I find it charming.

The Red Death (CT adarisdagris 'plague of plagues') was a period of time during the early Ninth Century AD (I read the wrong column on my spreadsheet!) involving the spread of a pathogenic contagion across the whole of Íröd. The plague proper lasted for two years but managed to wipe out a large contingent of Írödian civilization in that time. The timing coïncides with the first expedition of the Twonotwolo to reach Sêmásał—the effect, however, was that it was the New World that found the Old, and one of their first gifts in the cultural exchange was a pathogen. (The Twonotwolo did suffer from it, but nonetheless suffered less, and subsequently took the opportunity to start colonizing southern Sêmásał.)

The progression of Red Death began with a tingling sensation or taresthesia (when your extremity falls asleep) in the hands. This was, early on in the malady, intermittent, and often innocuous enough that it was written off as sitting or sleeping funny. (Some evidence exists that regional and chronological mutations in the virus affected how this symptom presented, in detectable geographic and genetic patterns.) Bloodshot/irritated eyes, nosebleeds, and oral lesions soon followed. A low fever developed, accompanied by post-nasal drip, sneezing, coughing, sniffles, sore throat, and plugged-up ears. Fatigue, disorientation, and (often) tinnitus would set in by this point. The afflicted would often experience difficulty walking or maintaining balance. Now, so far, this doesn't sound too distressing to a dahsar; if you didn't pick up on the taresthesia, it mostly tracks with an ear infection, and those are treatable. The first sign that this wasn't a simple ear infection was the appearance, in addition to all else, of itchy rashes on the skin; these often bled, or were easily induced to bleed. Motor control would continue to deteriorate and the afflicted's body temperature would gradually rise. The afflicted would begin to vomit blood, have bloody stool, and occasionally bleed out the eyes. In extreme cases, the phenomenon of sweating blood could be encountered. Hallucinations and delirium seem to have been common late-stage symptoms, with frequent reports that these concerned vermin and/or fire. Deterioration or necrosis of portions of the skull and/or jaw are also attested. Death usually took about two weeks.

A lot about the Red Death is a mystery. The currently accepted view is that it was a pathogen endemic to Tuónhír, a variation on a type that the Twonotwolo themselves were regularly exposed to (cf. the history of smallpox). There is evidence that the outbreak started on Tuónhír Kidge and spread west to Tuónhír Gadë, though this is contested. As concerns Íar, it appears to have come from Tuónhír Kidge to the coast of Sêmásał (specifically to the areas the Twonotwolo wound up in), whereupon it promptly got carried through the coastal transport network up to the Woy, who spread it to Rḫalhír and northern Maramhír, and through the mountains to the Sobadegh, which effected its rapid spread through the interior of Íar, and the Täptäg picked it up extremely quickly due to their mercantile endeavors and spread it everywhere the first two groups didn't reach.

It also only lasted about two years, and there is much debate about just what happened: A favored view is that it was too lethal to sustain its existence and either mutated itself to be milder or simply had infected too many people and died out for lack of possible infectees. We're not even entirely sure what it was; there's no conclusive, undisputed genetic sample identified with the event. There is evidence that one's genetics may have played a factor in susceptibility, but the extent to which it mattered is unclear. How exactly the Red Death propagated is another question mark—it is commonly accepted that transmission through blood was a surefire way to get infected, and many scholars think it may have also been sexually transmitted, but beyond that there's a lot of unknowns. It has been suggested that aerosolization wasn't a major vector, despite the symptoms including respiratory presentations, thus implying that some other carrier may have spread it, but it's unclear what that carrier could have been—there likely would have had to have been several—and in any event the morphological trends seen in the infections as the Red Death gradually wound down obscured things.

The Red Death upended a lot of things in Írödian history. The Tim Ar were being ruled by the so-called Kán (i.e., Caber) dynasties at the time, and had been more or less vassals of one Caber state or another for the past eight centuries. The Red Death contributed heavily to the decline of the original Caber hierarchy of domains, and directly caused the death of the last ruler of the Oí (not "Oi" the island! Diacritics are everything) dynasty. With the end of the rule of the Oí, all of Caberdom and its sphere of influence was every man for himself. This led to the Color Wars, a general term for the wars of Caber succession and attempts by their various vassal states to break away. The Tim Ar were ultimately the losers in the Color Wars, which resulted in continued Kán control, albeit never as a cohesive unit as it had been under Oí rule. By convention, the general historical reckoning really cares only about those who ruled from Ágmrgámr, so Tim Ar history often speaks of the dynasties of Satrág (Satrac), Istú (Istu), Këhsi (Cŏfsi), and Laág (La Ŏc).

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Well, Seymour, the Caber are odd fellows, but I must say: They steam a good bowl of hasać.

The Caber are essentially the ancient Greeks, except if Greeks were druids and also North Korea. Their Urheimat is in northwest Maramhír, primarily in what is now a heavily forested area, but with a geographic architecture that facilitated having lots of boats flit around. Thus equipped, speakers of Common Caber went out to the coast, had a few laughs, and established a number of what were essentially beachholds. There are theories that the Caber essentially planted, or at least cultivated, the rainforests of northwestern Maramhír. For unknown reasons, a significant population of Caber split off quite early from the rest and moved westward; their descendants are the Mute Caber, so named because their speech was highly divergent (the Tim Ar call the Caber the Kán and not the "Kamér" for this reason). This event does come up in Caber mythohistories, but it's unclear what exactly spurred it; there's often reference to passing forbidden knowledge of some sort, often reputed to involve fire or metalworking, to some mysterious third party. In any event, the Mute Caber are not highly thought of by the rest (the Core Caber).

The Caber were essentially a collection of hippie communes led by kings who ultimately had to answer to the druids. Druids (CC tibozǵanoc 'ground-singers', sg. tibozǵan) were almost universally women, and it was generally considered that they had a special ability to key into (and tap into) the earth. Caber mythology appears to have featured the cultural conceit that the earth, somehow, is alive, and that the leader of a place is the living embodiment of that locality; the druids were there to help express the genius locus, and the king's job as the genius locus was to listen to them. The king could have his own agenda but the community spoke through the druids. Although the king had an air of divinity about him, he could nonetheless be punished by his own subjects for perceived major deficiencies (say, a famine), and more than one Caber ruler met his end as a ritual sacrifice after prolonged periods of difficulty or failure.

Unlike the druids of Earth, the Caber druids left behind plenty of writing—indeed, they invented it on Íröd, and passing on information in written form was highly encouraged. This facilitated the development of the druidic canons, a combination of history, myth, and instructions on how to live sustainably (including a lot of specific timekeeping and calendar cycles for various agricultural endeavors, climates, and localities). This is not to say there weren't accompanying oral histories as well; there's a lot of them. In many cases, though, these histories weren't so much secret as they were often niche or locale-specific to the degree that there wasn't point in writing it down, or at least not in a permanent chronicle. A lot of it is common knowledge or common sense, some of it superstition, some of it history, and some of it real messed-up stuff. (It might be said that sometimes, the druids know where the bodies are buried because they buried them.)

There are rumors that the druidic secrets include methods for concocting poisons and toxins. This may have some basis in reality; the Caber appear to have used an elixir prepared using the parŏcu fascŭ ('suicide plant') as a method of capital punishment, and the druids did have peacekeeping and law enforcement functions. (The parŏcu fascŭ naturally produces MDMA, and a concentration thereof was given to the condemned. It was often the case that the dose was so large, victims expired from the overdose; in cases where it was not, however, the significant emotional crash that occurs following the high was a strong motivator.)

One form of divination used was to cut down a suitable tree equivalent and inspect the growth rings and/or vascular system. A horizontal slice of the trunk was obtained, a question carved into it, and then the slice would be intentionally damaged in some way—burning, freezing, percussive maintenance, or letting it get trampled by animals were common methods. The resultant damage patterns were inspected; it was also considered relevant if the characters were affected, in what way, and to what extent. Felling a tree for divination purposes, however, was not something lightly done.

Caber cultures tend to have a particular cultural fascination with and reverence for ŭfmafa 'salt' (literally 'characteristic substance of cooking').

Similar to the pan-African, pan-Arab, or pan-Gran Colombian color motifs of Earth, it is common for Caber-aligned states or factions to adopt the aścan ucśŏ mihgŏ 'blue over green'. The symbolism is the triumph of freshwater sources over that of the ocean. The kakistocracies of Téleláne have on a few occasions inverted this as a pointed insult towards the Caber.

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Caber personal nomenclature typically involves a noun phrase of the form adjective - noun - number. Nesŏoc Fŭsca Rahboć bŭf Postośeŭ was a historical leader of a Caber contingent; his name means 'Forty Stolen Cakes'. Another historical ruler is Ramaćŭoc Ćŭoc Bŏci '(With) Two Felled Trees'. The nouns often stay the same amongst family units, though the adjectives and numbers vary. (If the number is "one", the noun and adjective will be in the singular: Sŭnǵu Andŭwŭh Bŭćŏ 'One Difficult Question'.) The typical "short name" that gets cited if the referent is known is the noun plus the number: Ba Neŭmŭoc fe Ćŭoc Bŏci 'the writings of (Ramaćŭoc) Ćŭoc Bŏci'. If the noun is singular, you can dispense with the "one": Ba Neŭmŭoc fe Andŭwŭh 'the writings of (Sŭnǵu) Andŭwŭh (Bŭćŏ)'.

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There is a small assortment of druidic canons (rareśuoc, sg. rareśu 'that having been woven') in Caber culture. The original four are:

- The dagger canon (Sapu Rareśu) features a significant focus on practicality and use of local flora and fauna.
- The enduring canon (Mazno Rareśu), the oldest of the canons, emphasizes sustainable living. It has a lot to say about removing impurities from substances, particularly greenwater.
- The gnostic canon (Ŏtawbataru Rareśu) is, even in modern times, little-known and mysterious. The gnostic druids believed that some information needed to be kept from the public knowledge; this canon is the shortest in terms of length of the written work, but much of it is memorized and passed down orally.
- The pale canon (Famŏwbe Rareśu) has a focus on healthcare and social cohesion. Bloodletting is frequently prescribed; there may have been something to this, as the pale canon appears to have originated in, and to have made more significant inroads in, coastal areas where the iron content of the water was higher.

After the Caber expanded into Beheic territories, a new canon was developed:

- The alpine canon (Tazu Rareśu) more readily incorporates knowledge of flora and fauna outside of Core Caber territory and has a reputation for readily adding ideas from other belief systems into the mix.

Two more main canons emerged after the Red Death:

- The neo-druidic canon (Ŭwŭc Rareśu) attempted to incorporate alchemical developments and mineralogical/geological knowledge to a greater degree than previous canons.
- The reconciled canon (Omiśca Rareśu) was basically an attempt to aggregate the most salient bits of the preceding canons and update them to modern times and sensibilities.

You can call a druid by her main canonical devotion (alpine druids, neo-druids, gnostic druids, &c.).

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Druidic garb typically consists of a long, flowing cloak or hooded robe (gatea), typically found in red, yellow, green, or light blue and which may be embellished by further decoration, typically plant-like patterns (though some go with lightning patterns, tessellations, or fractals); a golden headdress (rohco, literally 'coil of rope'); an herb-pouch (wŭtwŭc), often slung over the shoulder or hung on a belt (q.v.); and a sash (ŏśca). Typically druids went barefoot, though they could wear thin sandals (ŏpfaścŏ). A wide belt (oriŏn) could optionally be worn; the herb-pouch could be hung on it, as could a bag of druidic implements (ośu sobo). Druids following the dagger canon additionally carry a ceremonial dagger (onǵactŭs sap, 'cherished knife').

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The Caber druids generally kept to a kind of self-administered "territory". There are general territorial trends in the way the druids traditionally arranged themselves; one theory as to the reason for this is that different druidic traditions focused on the flora and fauna of specific localities and that the traditional organizations followed from this.

There are different grades of druids. The typical progression looks like this:
- A ticoćtŭtam ('learner') is the initiate.
- A ticoćtŭtam, once the basic instruction has been imparted, becomes a omarǵain ('one compelled to stay in one place').
- The omarǵain next becomes a tidaŏrśin ('one who follows'), basically a junior itinerant druid.
- The next step up for a tidaŏrśin is to become a tidagŭ ('one who takes stock of things'). Tidagŭoc are the senior itinerant druids.
- The adagŭ then graduates to amŏh 'mother' status. Generally, the amŏha tend to stick to one "home base" or proving grounds.
- The amŏh aspires to become a posto amŏh 'great mother'.
- The most senior druid in a given territory is considered the cid amŏh 'all-mother'.

A few druids choose to become a tiǵatfuomtŭtam ('one who self-exiles') instead. A tiǵatfuomtŭtam is the stereotypical mad genius throwing herself into her work to the exclusion of all else; she's kind of the Dr. House of her territory, being the one who knows all about the edge cases that rarely come up, and is sort of patronized when all other avenues have been exhausted. The stereotype of the ascetic, hermetic, or asocial druid is most accurate for this class. The tiǵatfuomtŭtam is nonetheless eligible to become a cid amŏh.

The ticoćtŭtam is generally selected at age seven. The itinerant druids get a sense of who might have the appropriate mental acuity and temperament during their rounds, and they go and consult with the elder druids about this. The initiate is awakened in the night and taken into some natural locale, whereupon her instruction begins. At the age of ten, she becomes an omarǵain and if she does not already know, she is taught reading and writing. (Most druids use Common Caber as their metalanguage, so in modern times, when literacy is much more common, this instruction is still required—though there are a minority who use the vernacular, most of these being alpine or neo-druids.) Candidates with dyslexia or other disabilities affecting their ability to read and write can nonetheless still be taught the oral literature. Next, she spends a few years making the rounds in a certain greater area, helping the locals and making note of current events; these are reported to the elder druids. After a while of doing this, she gains enough experience to settle down and take an apprentice herself; and so on.

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The druids typically eat a meat-and-fish-heavy diet. Plants are also consumed, but the different canons have varying strictures on what plants you can eat, when you can eat them, and how.

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Possibly triggering to some, so put behind a "more" tag:

Man in Space wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 12:00 am The kakistocracies of Téleláne

Now how does that work?

bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 1:14 am

Man in Space wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 12:00 amThe kakistocracies of Téleláne

Now how does that work?

The river valley of Deś Ŏśane (Téleláne to the Tim Ar) dumps into the northern ocean and for a long time was characterized by incredible corruption and large immigrant populations that lived in poverty. The Caber administrators neglected the well-being of their constituents to the point that, much like in the Kowloon Walled City or some parts of Karachi, local organized crime families had to provide basic services (power, trash, &c.) The mafias were more popular than the Caber and the situation got so bad (and bloody) that eventually the Caber basically gave up trying to run Deś Ŏśane and the organized crime syndicates just kind of morphed from de facto to de jure rule. (This proved to be a bad idea in many respects because it went a long way to legitimize the syndicates; if one died in a shootout or if someone tried to extraordinarily render someone, it would engender a major diplomatic incident.)

Téleláne is the most densely-populated region of Íröd; in some places, population density exceeds even that of Kowloon in its heyday. The external borders are pretty much stable—and reasonable—but the inside gets, in areas, to be worse than, say, Baarle, or the old India-Bangladesh border, with all of its enclaves, counter-enclaves, counter-counter-enclaves…you get the idea. The internal border situation is so insane, different floors of some buildings are considered to belong to different territories. It nonetheless boasts significant tourist activity as there's a lot that's legal there that isn't anywhere else.

As one could imagine, the political situation in Téleláne is highly variable. Some territories are the autocratic domains of one specific syndicate, or even one specific crime lord; others are joint-ventures; in a few cases, some organizations have merged. A few territories have been known to hold elections. Ironically, the police forces therein are actually somewhat effective, as the thieves were savvy enough to realize that a smile is cheaper than a bullet, at least when dealing with the normal citizenry.

From a standpoint of international governance, Téleláne is an outside-context problem. Sometimes it's treated as a union like the UK, with the individual crime families' territories being the constituent polities; that said, there is still a fair amount of autonomy in the agendas of the various clans.