Zompist Bboard Again

jal wrote: ↑Tue Feb 03, 2026 4:54 am Does English have a word for the result of fasting, i.e. you do no longer have any food in your stomach? In Dutch, we have "nuchter", which in colloquial speech means "no alcohol consumed" (as in "sober"), but in medical terms "not having any food or drinks in the stomach".


JAL

EDIT: corrected typo

For comparison, note that in English, the primary meaning of "sober" is "not drunk or under the influence of any drug", but the secondary meaning is "serious, solmen". The secondary meaning is rare enough that I'd expect somebody who never went to college to be unaware of it. (I've seen it happen before.)

jcb wrote: ↑Wed Feb 11, 2026 2:59 amFor comparison, note that in English, the primary meaning of "sober" is "not drunk or under the influence of any drug", but the secondary meaning is "serious, solmen". The secondary meaning is rare enough that I'd expect somebody who never went to college to be unaware of it. (I've seen it happen before.)

If I read it I probably wouldn't think twice, as that's close enough to the Dutch meaning of "sober", which means "simple", "without much embellishment".


JAL

zompist wrote: ↑Tue Feb 03, 2026 4:05 pm

bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Feb 03, 2026 5:06 am (Also, ‘fastening’ ≠ ‘fasting’.)

All related, though. The root meaning of OE fæst was "firm", still seen in "hold fast". To be firm and steadfast in will produced the sense of abstaining from food. To fasten is of course to make firm, especially by making a firm connection. You could run fæste, i.e. vigorously, then specialized to quickly. A nice word family to reflect on for conlangers!

I think it's neat that "hard" is following the same semantic path.

"I was running hard." = "I was running while exerting great effort."
If one is exerting great effort while running, one is also probably running quickly.

Of course, "hard" still retains it's original (and primary) meaning of "solid, firm" too.

Also, "hard" has come to mean "difficult". What a very productive word!

jcb wrote: ↑Wed Feb 11, 2026 3:06 amAlso, "hard" has come to mean "difficult". What a very productive word!

Of course the bridge from "exerting great effort physically" to "exerting great effort mentally" is a small one.


JAL

jcb wrote: ↑Wed Feb 11, 2026 3:06 amAlso, "hard" has come to mean "difficult". What a very productive word!

jal wrote: ↑Wed Feb 11, 2026 3:12 am
Of course the bridge from "exerting great effort physically" to "exerting great effort mentally" is a small one.


JAL

Compare German "schwer" literally "heavy", which is used like "hard" when talking about tasks.

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Feb 11, 2026 6:17 am

jcb wrote: ↑Wed Feb 11, 2026 3:06 amAlso, "hard" has come to mean "difficult". What a very productive word!

jal wrote: ↑Wed Feb 11, 2026 3:12 am
Of course the bridge from "exerting great effort physically" to "exerting great effort mentally" is a small one.


JAL

Compare German "schwer" literally "heavy", which is used like "hard" when talking about tasks.

'Heavy' is the primary meaning of schwer? I was primarily familiar with it being used like hard, difficult.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Feb 11, 2026 9:54 am 'Heavy' is the primary meaning of schwer? I was primarily familiar with it being used like hard, difficult.

I have no idea what the original primary meaning was. I just know that it has both meanings today.

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Feb 11, 2026 9:57 am

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Feb 11, 2026 9:54 am 'Heavy' is the primary meaning of schwer? I was primarily familiar with it being used like hard, difficult.

I have no idea what the original primary meaning was. I just know that it has both meanings today.

Wiktionary says the original meaning was "heavy".
- https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstr ... nic/swēraz

jcb wrote: ↑Wed Feb 11, 2026 12:00 pm

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Feb 11, 2026 9:57 am

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Feb 11, 2026 9:54 am 'Heavy' is the primary meaning of schwer? I was primarily familiar with it being used like hard, difficult.

I have no idea what the original primary meaning was. I just know that it has both meanings today.

Wiktionary says the original meaning was "heavy".
- https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstr ... nic/swēraz

Thank you!

In etymology, it is a good heuristic to assume that the concrete / physical meaning is the original one. But it's always a good idea to confirm that by checking the word history, if known.

jcb wrote: ↑Wed Feb 11, 2026 12:00 pmWiktionary says the original meaning was "heavy".
- https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstr ... nic/swēraz

Same in Dutch, though the current-day meaning is mostly "heavy", with the "difficult" meaning being replaced by "moeilijk", except in a few set expressions like "zwaar werk" (which means "physically demanding work", not "difficult work" in general).


JAL

In which way does the argumentative maneuver that was traditionally called "begging the question" actually beg any questions?

Raphael wrote: ↑Thu Feb 12, 2026 9:26 am In which way does the argumentative maneuver that was traditionally called "begging the question" actually beg any questions?

The term "begging the question" is rather misleading, which results in many people misinterpreting the term to mean "raising the question", it should be noted.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Thu Feb 12, 2026 9:48 am

Raphael wrote: ↑Thu Feb 12, 2026 9:26 am In which way does the argumentative maneuver that was traditionally called "begging the question" actually beg any questions?

The term "begging the question" is rather misleading, which results in many people misinterpreting the term to mean "raising the question", it should be noted.

Yes, that's what prompted my question.

Raphael wrote: ↑Thu Feb 12, 2026 9:26 amIn which way does the argumentative maneuver that was traditionally called "begging the question" actually beg any questions?

Wikipedia describes the origin of the phrase.


JAL

jal wrote: ↑Thu Feb 12, 2026 1:27 pm

Raphael wrote: ↑Thu Feb 12, 2026 9:26 amIn which way does the argumentative maneuver that was traditionally called "begging the question" actually beg any questions?

Wikipedia describes the origin of the phrase.


JAL

Thank you!

What color does the word "pink" mean to people? As far as I can tell, originally (I'm not sure when this would be.) it meant some kind of light red or even what I would call light orange, but nowdays it basically has the same meaning as magenta: the range of hues between red and purple (regardless of lightness), and is the more popular term.

jcb wrote: ↑Tue Feb 17, 2026 2:54 am What color does the word "pink" mean to people? As far as I can tell, originally (I'm not sure when this would be.) it meant some kind of light red or even what I would call light orange, but nowdays it basically has the same meaning as magenta: the range of hues between red and purple (regardless of lightness), and is the more popular term.

Looking up the English Wikipedia article on the color pink, I'd say the illustrations right at the top of it look about right to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink

I've long associated the word pink with the word pig, though they probably have nothing to do with each other. On a side note, I once saw an advert for a new Pink Floyd album in a music magazine, but the name of the band was given as just Floyd. Then I realized that the name Floyd was printed in pink colour

Pink is lighter for me, prototypically a bleached red. This picture seems pretty central:



Magenta is darker and bluer. E.g. this girl's hair:



There's certainly a lot of overlap. I can't find a good picture of actual magenta ink-- most illos are made on the computer, I think. This may come close, as it's intended as a test print: