Zompist Bboard Again

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:37 am

Zaarin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:35 pmLike Linguoboy said, depends on the word. Maryland, England, Newfoundland have something like [ɫə͂ʔd̚]; Queensland, highland have something intermediary like [ɫɛ̃ʔd̚]; Swaziland and Zululand have [ɫænd̚].

I think my distribution may be like Nortaneous': default /lənd/ (which will often be realised [ɫən ~ ɫɪn]) but Maryland is always [ɫɪn] because I'm subconsciously imitating my father's pronunciation (as with Baltimore and other local place names). Queensland and highland (and Zealand) group with established European names for me whereas I reserve /lænd/ for newer polities (Puntland), corporate names (like theme parks and retailers, e.g. Disneyland, Timberland), and metaphorical uses (e.g. limboland, Jesusland, woo-woo-land).

Space60 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:49 am Does anyone have an /l/ sound in "both" or "only" (before the /n/)? I don't have such myself but I've heard it. I think my brother has "olnly" for "only".

Zaarin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:35 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:52 pm I have heard of folk with /l/ myself, in the context of folk music (IIRC one of folk as in folk music and one of folk in other contexts often has /l/, but I cannot recall at the moment which is which).

I have /l/ in folk music but not in other instances of folk. This is lexical for me: I don't have intrusive /l/ in other circumstances (unless you count words like almond and falcon which I have literally never heard without /l/).

Zju wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:08 pm How do you pronounce -land when it's a suffix, or the second part of a placename? [lənd]? [lænd]? Something else?

Like Linguoboy said, depends on the word. Maryland, England, Newfoundland have something like [ɫə͂ʔd̚]; Queensland, highland have something intermediary like [ɫɛ̃ʔd̚]; Swaziland and Zululand have [ɫænd̚].

Imralu wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:54 amI'm from Queensland and I say it with æ, weirdly enough.

Zaarin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:59 pm I don't have such assimilation beyond normal coda coronal debuccalization.

vodka [ˈvɑʔd̚kə]
hatpin [ˈhæʔpʰɪn]
Atkins [ˈæʔkʰɪnz]
Adler [ˈæʔd̚ɫɹ̩ˁ]
radio [ˈɹ̠ˁʷɛɪ̯ɾjəʊ̯~ˈɹ̠ˁʷɛɪ̯ˌdiəʊ̯]
couldn't [ˈkʰʊʔd̚n̩ʔ]

You'll note that _d$ and _t$ remain slightly distinct for me.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:32 amYou preglottalize coda /d/ in addition to the normal preglottalization (or overt glottalization) of coda /t/?

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:44 pm Another thing I wonder as to how common it really is in English is assimilation of /t d/ + plosive clusters into geminates which take the POA and affrication, if any, of the second consonant (which are preglottalized and preceded by short vowels if the first consonant is /t/, and non-preglottalized and preceded by long vowel if the first consonant is /d/). For instance, vodka is [ˈvaːkːə(ː)], hatpin is [ˈhɛʔpːɘ̃(ː)n], and Atkins is [ˈɛːʔkːɘ̃ːnts]. Also, for me at least, it seems that the geminates as a whole are voiceless, even if the individual consonants were both lenis (this is true for all obstruent clusters for me). I have not seen this discussed much in the context of discussion of English dialect features, but it seems so normal to me, like it is not particular to the English around here, that it might just be one of those things that are not discussed because they are a given.

I also have more extensive assimilation of /d/ + sonorant clusters into geminates beyond assimilation with plosives; e.g. Adler is [ˈɛːʟ̞ːʁ̩(ː)], radio is [ˈʁʷeːjːo(ː)], and couldn't is [ˈkʰʊːnː(ʔ)]. These I get the impression are more dialectal or even idiolectal than the above, but I do wonder if anyone else also knows of anyone else having these.

There are also some other isolated assimilations into geminates that I am familiar with, e.g suggest is [sɘtˈtʃɜs]~[sɘtˈtʃɜsʲtʲ] and problem is [pʰʁ̥ɑːmː].

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:48 am I don't have any of that, except maybe in rapid speech. I don't think I'd have voicing assimilation -- maybe [-gk-] in 'vodka', but certainly not [-kk-]. I'd expect /t/ to debuccalize before plosives, but that'd give [-ʔp- -ʔk-], not [-ʔp:- -ʔk:-]. 'Adler' and 'radio' wouldn't take assimilation.

Something that might be dialectal -- I've only noticed it in people from the NYC area -- is assimilation of /lj/ to [ʎ(:)].

Pabappa wrote: ↑Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:36 am Is that what Trump has? I just hear it as "biyyions and biyyions".

mèþru wrote: ↑Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:09 am Now I'm jealous of Trump because I could never pronounce true palatals besides /j/

mèþru wrote: ↑Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:22 amIt's not really [ç] as much as a palatalised and somewhat fronted glottal

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:59 am

mèþru wrote: ↑Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:22 amIt's not really [ç] as much as a palatalised and somewhat fronted glottal

Eh, the difference is really minor. When I teach German, I start them off with this and get them to [ç] relatively easily.