Zompist Bboard Again

jal wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2026 12:13 pm

Imralu wrote: ↑Sat Jun 13, 2026 4:21 amThen, he asks himself how far apart Los Angeles and New York are to see whether he thinks in 'kilometres' or 'miles', but it doesn't occur to him that non-US-Americans would never think of two US-American cities when coming up with an example.

Olso, dem Amerikan in lon pipl dem yus mayl.
Furthermore, the Americans aren't the only people to use miles.

Nai mu. Dei ngemi zyu ha dei ngo a Sepo, ha Kenira, ha Layebiriya, ha Pomi.
I know. He thinks about whether he's US-American, Canadian, Liberian or British.

Dei ngemi u byoi yu ngo Kenirai zwe mbya ndwi u byoi dena do zwe zyi bya u byoi bya gwe nge nge nge.
He thinks about how Canadians use one system in this context and the other system in other contexts bla bla bla.

Dei ze li mundwa u ndoi lo negu zyu dei nebyo zyi Losendyelizi gwe Nyuyoki.
He doesn't figure it out by realising that he thinks about Los Angeles and New York.

U doro do, nwa ngo ngingii nge zyi dyina:
Later, one of the characters says:

"Nai zi gyu zyui nggondzwe ni ye lu Bara Yove."
"I heard there were tornadoes in Europe?"

Do byai nge:
And someone else says:

"Gwe dwei ngi u li baba banggwa. We zyange Bara Yovei zi nggwe dyi ye dzwa nggondzwe ni u zi zyu konggisadzo Sepanyai vwe zywe u lu Notsamerika. U nye do, dwei ngi u lu a Qitali gwe Sepanya gwe Girisi."
"And they’re happening more and more often. European languages didn’t even have a word for tornado until Spanish conquistadors saw them in North America. Now they’re happening in Italy, Spain, and Greece."

Nai zyu dei zyu zei tsunami u zi zyu bu Dyapenii nozyo zywe.
I suppose he doesn't think there were tsunamis until Japan invented them.

Ndyolyai ho, mye vu ye dii gi dzwagi.
The book is good, but some parts of it are pretty annoying.

Byo lo limwe nge zyange zyi me u dyii zyamu wi nyoli do, dei byu zyi u zobye.
The bit about learning the basic words of each others' languages is raced through.

U ga ya giwe qawa do, dwei mu vye wendi wemba dyi.
After a few hours, they know thousands of each others words.

Ndo zyu dwei li mu zyu ndzwai zui ze libyo.
The way they elicit words / know the meanings are the same is not discussed.

Imralu, does your language have voiceless stops in native words?

Travis B. wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2026 5:26 pm Imralu, haat dijn taal stimloze stopluiden in ingebuurde (of inhemische) woorden?

Ndwa!
Ndwa!
Nituā
Tuā!
Yes.

Ndwingei ne zyi, myei ze va zyange ye zwe zyi.
Ndwingei ne syi, myei se fa syange ye swe syi.
Nituīngeqi ne siyi, mieqi se fa siange qie sue siyi.
Tuīngeqi ne siyi, mieqi se fa siange qie sue siyi.
The language has them, but not every variety uses them.

Nai ga zyevwe.
Nai ka syefwe.
Naqi ka siefue.
Naqi ka siefue.
I'll show.

__________________________________________________________________

Nai mu. Dei ngemi zyu ha dei ngo a Sepo, ha Kenira, haqa Layebiriya, ha Pomi.
Nai mu. Tei ngemi syu ha tei ngo a Sepo, ha Kenira, ha Layebiriya, ha Pomi.
Naqi mu. Teqi ngemi siu ha teqi ngo qara Sepo, ha Kenira, ha Layebiriya, hara Pomi.
Naqi mu. Teqi ngemi siu ha teqi ngo qara Sepo, ha Kenira, ha Layebiriya, hara Pomi.
I know. He thinks about whether he's US-American, Canadian, Liberian or British.

Dei ngemi u byoi yu ngo Kenirai zwe mbya ndwi u byoi dena do zwe zyi bya u byoi bya gwe nge nge nge.
Tei ngemi u pyoi yu ngo Kenirai swe mbya ndwi u pyoi tena to swe syi pya u pyoi pya kwe nge nge nge.
Teqi ngemi qu pioqi qiu ngo Kenita sue nipiā nituī qu pioqi tena to sue siyi pia qu pioqi pia kue nge nge nge.
Teqi ngemi qu pioqi qiu ngo Kenita sue piā tuī qu pioqi tena to sue siyi pia qu pioqi pia kue nge nge nge.
He thinks about how Canadians use one system in this context and the other system in other contexts bla bla bla.

Dei ze li mundwa u ndoi lo negu zyu dei nebyo zyi Losendyelizi gwe Nyuyoki.
Tei se li mundwa u ndoi lo neku syu tei nepyo syi Losendyelizi kweqe Nyuyoki.
Teqi se li munituā qu nitōqi lo neku siu teqi nepio siyi Losendyelizi kue Nyuyoki.
Teqi se li mutuā qu tōqi lo neku siu teqi nepio siyi Losendyelizi kue Nyuyoki.
He doesn't figure it out by realising that he thinks about Los Angeles and New York.

U doro do, nwa ngo ngingii nge zyi dyina:
U toto to, nwa ngo ngingii nge syi tyina:
Qu toto to, nua ngo ngingiqi nge siyi tiyina:
Qu toto to, nua ngo ngingiqi nge siyi tiyina:
Later, one of the characters says:

"Nai zi gyu zyui nggondzwe ni ye lu Bara Yove."
"Nai si kyu syui nggondzwe ni ye lu Pata Yofe."
"Naqi si kiu siuqi nikōnitsuē nī qie lu Pata Qiofe."
"Naqi si kiu siuqi kōtsuē ni qie lu Pata Qiofe."
"I heard there were tornadoes in Europe?"

[...]

"Gwe dwei ngi u li baba banggwa. We zyange Bara Yovei zi nggwe dyi ye dzwa nggondzwe ni u zi zyu konggisadzo Sepanyai vwe zywe u lu Notsamerika. U nye do, dwei ngi u lu a Qitali gwe Sepanya gwe Girisi."
"Kwe twei ngi u li papa panggwa. We syange Pata Yofei si nggwe tyi ye tswa nggondzwe ni u si syu konggisadzo Sepanyai fwe sywe u lu Notsamerika. U nye to, twei ngi u lu a Qitali kwe Sepanya kwe Girisi."
"Kue tueqi ngi qu li papa panikuā. Que siange Pata Yofeqi si nikuē tiyi qie tsua nikōnitsuē nī qu si siu konggisadzo Sepanyaqi fue siwe qu lu Notsamerika. Qu nie to, tueqi ngi u lu qara Qitali kue Sepanya kue Girisi."
"Kue tueqi ngi qu li papa pakuā. Que siange Pata Yofeqi si kuē tiyi qie tsua kōtsuē ni qu si siu konggisadzo Sepanyaqi fue siwe qu lu Notsamerika. Qu nie to, tueqi ngi u lu qara Qitali kue Sepanya kue Girisi."
"And they’re happening more and more often. European languages didn’t even have a word for tornado until Spanish conquistadors saw them in North America. Now they’re happening in Italy, Spain, and Greece."

Btw, is ⟨q⟩ a glottal stop or pharyngeal consonant?

Imralu wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2026 5:03 pm Byo lo limwe nge zyange zyi me u dyii zyamu wi nyoli do, dei byu zyi u zobye.
The bit about learning the basic words of each others' languages is raced through.

U ga ya giwe qawa do, dwei mu vye wendi wemba dyi.
After a few hours, they know thousands of each others words.

Ndo zyu dwei li mu zyu ndzwai zui ze libyo.
The way they elicit words / know the meanings are the same is not discussed.

Nichu guamu olneru ze kusuku dzaneru nei telvia yao faosada.
new meet:PASS-PP language LOC thousand word CTR know-GER-1 very take.time-ACT-PST
Learning a thousand words in a new language took me a long time.

Nichu guamu olneru ze kusuku dzaneru nei telvia yao faosada.

z­«¨O[[_cªç¨±{\ªc¹­
(prefer short learning of hundred naming basis of all words...)
It's better to focus on quickly learning its semantic primitives...

quinterbeck wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2026 3:53 pmNichu guamu olneru ze kusuku dzaneru nei telvia yao faosada.
new meet:PASS-PP language LOC thousand word CTR know-GER-1 very take.time-ACT-PST
Learning a thousand words in a new language took me a long time.

De bwo luzei mwe limu u ba byu u ngei de ngegyo.
The alien can learn very quickly, according to the author.

Dei gyu ya dyi ye lye wi nwanyo do ze bimu zyi.
He hears a word once and doesn't forget it.

(U ndui yu ndwinge zyii go nggabwi do, dei mu zyu lwo zyu nggai ha zwi ha ndui ndu wi zye wi zye.)
(Even though his language is like music, he somehow knows that the pitch is not important.)

Gwe ngongoi zwe dyazyo u zyembo zyi dyi.
And the human uses a computer to store the words.

Do dyazoi zyevwe zyu bwoi nge mya dyi u nyoi zu.
Then the computer shows a simultaneous gloss.

Dozye nai mwe dyondwa zyu dwei mwe limwe zwe ya bawe dyi u nyoi ba di, mye ...
So I can accept that they could learn to use a lot of words in a very short time, but ...

Dwei mi mbye.
They're in a tunnel.

Ba gindyai mwe ne ngehi.
There's not much to be pointed at.

Dwei zyeu de mei vwe zyi dyanyo zyi me.
They show each other their clocks.

Dyi gyowei ba dwa limu.
Numbers are easy to learn.

Myei ze byonge do, ndo zyu dwei limu bya dyi nuni mizyo.
But it's not explained how they learn other abstract concepts.

Wanai ze vwe vye ngi zyu dwei zami vindwa u zami zyu dwe mundzwa.
We don't see instances of them believing the wrong thing when they think they've understood.

I byebwe do, yu dwei mu vye wendi wemba dyi u ga ya giwe qawa.
Suddenly, after a few hours, they've learned thousands of words.

Wei nye ndyongo ye ngulo li mundzwa zywe ngga zyi gwi bengo.
There are teams of people working on understanding the sounds of dolphins.

I ndwa do, yu de bwoi ngulo u go, mye dwerei li mwe zyi u nyoi myeri giwe qawa, ha ma?
Yes, the alien is trying too, but these two figure it out in just a few hours!?

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2026 11:15 am Btw, is ⟨q⟩ a glottal stop or pharyngeal consonant?

It's a glottal stop. If I write it like Ha ʻuaʻi po so nipā ŋa ʻui kiaka?, I guess it would be immediately obvious.

xxx wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2026 4:10 pm z­«¨O[[_cªç¨±{\ªc¹­
(prefer short learning of hundred naming basis of all words...)
It's better to focus on quickly learning its semantic primitives...

Hwe bwo luze, he nge zyi vawe vudyi wo.
Alien, state all your semantic primitives.

I dwa!
Easy!

I ndwa do, yu de bwoi ngulo u go, mye dwerei li mwe zyi u nyoi myeri giwe qawa, ha ma?

aa`b¾da¶O3½å´O€¶j±Î¶j¯²j­Oh­¯Á®j±¼
(300,000 years of humans living among animals whose language incomprehensible to them...)

Phaeroian:

Bal-e Phairoir-ka idar eu-ithnyx-i baliois, zaiddisa eosa hathnyx mairen obedrax-ka. Kai meus adamiarinan istraioto?
language-CONST Phaeros-PL-SUBJ-on.the.one.hand now COMP-3K-CONST word-PL-ERG / number-OBJ that-COM-OBJ 4K until-COM-OBJ raise-1s.OPT.MID-on.the.other.hand // Q.y/n anyone-COM-NOM translate-FUT.PASS.PART-NEUT-PL-OBJ suggest-3s.PRES.SUBJ.ACT
"Phaeroian now has more than 3,000 words, and I want to raise that number to 4,000. Anyone have any suggestions as to what to translate?"

Pedant wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2026 2:05 pm Phaeroian:

Bal-e Phairoir-ka idar eu-ithnyx-i baliois, zaiddisa eosa hathnyx mairen obedrax-ka. Kai meus adamiarinan istraioto?
language-CONST Phaeros-PL-SUBJ-on.the.one.hand now COMP-3K-CONST word-PL-ERG / number-OBJ that-COM-OBJ 4K until-COM-OBJ raise-1s.OPT.MID-on.the.other.hand // Q.y/n anyone-COM-NOM translate-FUT.PASS.PART-NEUT-PL-OBJ suggest-3s.PRES.SUBJ.ACT
"Phaeroian now has more than 3,000 words, and I want to raise that number to 4,000. Anyone have any suggestions as to what to translate?"

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Pedant wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2026 2:05 pm "Phaeroian now has more than 3,000 words, and I want to raise that number to 4,000. Anyone have any suggestions as to what to translate?"

Pócé prostichtais aiwé's ta comauchti tai? Fa tetugor comauchtias Terré?
which-M.SG.LOC development-SG.GEN period-SG.LOC be-3SG.PRES.ACT.CLIT ART-N.COLL.NOM culture-COLL.NOM 2SG-DAT? INT touch-3PL.RES.INACT culture-PL.ACC earth-SG.LOC?
What stage of development is your culture at? Does it have contact with cultures on Earth?

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2026 4:11 pm The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Lethandra pernakanar auriakanar-to, irrytala la-lazir tyrthas.
fact-SUBJ important-N-SUBJ popular-N-SUBJ-and / seeming-SUBJ NEG-always essence-NOM
"It is an important and popular fact that things are not always what they seem."

hwhatting wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2026 7:12 am Pócé prostichtais aiwé's ta comauchti tai? Fa tetugor comauchtias Terré?
which-M.SG.LOC development-SG.GEN period-SG.LOC be-3SG.PRES.ACT.CLIT ART-N.COLL.NOM culture-COLL.NOM 2SG-DAT? INT touch-3PL.RES.INACT culture-PL.ACC earth-SG.LOC?
What stage of development is your culture at? Does it have contact with cultures on Earth?

Azeite-o Insodon minad-e ktaris-i Europan liop-e Maktarian-si bdoi-e Eigamen-si aphen hykhar. Zyr Gaias kylo hydanoir-ka - zouionar pora kylo sad-e Hykloa kana-ka.
empire-PL-CONST Trithalassic-SUBJ rank-of creation-of Europe-OBJ evening-of Renaissance-OBJ late-or morning-of Enlightenment-OBJ-or during-OBJ abut-3p.PRES.IND.ACT // nevertheless Earth-ERG completely separate-PRES.PASS-PL-SUBJ-on.the.one.hand / nebula-SUBJ part completely different-of cosmos in-on.the.other.hand
"The empires of the Trithalassic are at about the same level of tech as Europe during the Late Renaissance or early Enlightenment. They're completely separate from Earth, though - the Crayfish Nebula is in a whole other part of the galaxy."

No time to write this in Tautisca, but the main question from my point of view is whether you are a) thinking of a text that would be available as a text in Phaeroian-speaking society, or whether b) you just want to use the exercise to build up your lexicon. For a), it would be good to know what types of texts and genre Phaeroian culture has so that the text could be produced (and in that case, it should not reference things that are typical for Earth), for b) the main question would be what part of your lexicon you want to develop.

Han…ei, zygretar. Kadaris bolian meuian zdamiarinian nasymo, bolai ior-o phaimois azirak-o dreudaris atagrinalis. Kai iala taiar isakada?
hmm // well / sensibleness-SUBJ // truth-ERG note-PL-OBJ some-PL-OBJ translate-IMP.PASS.PART-PL-OBJ / speech-PL-OBJ view-PL-CONST main.character-PL-ERG various-C-PL-of story-ERG create-FUT.PASS.PART-ERG // Q.y/n perhaps this-M-PL-SUBJ use-1s.PRES.SUBJ.ACT
"Hmm…well, that makes sense. Actually I do have some snippets I could translate, monologues from the perspectives of various main characters in a story I want to make. Maybe I should use these?"

Pedant wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2026 2:05 pm"Phaeroian now has more than 3,000 words, and I want to raise that number to 4,000. Anyone have any suggestions as to what to translate?"

Pedant wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2026 3:16 pm"The empires of the Trithalassic are at about the same level of tech as Europe during the Late Renaissance or early Enlightenment.

This discussion should be in the other Conlang thread I think, but I think that "I have 3000 words and I want 4000" is a misguided goal. The amount of "words" a language needs (and note that "words" is an extremely vague term, as a rich derivational morphology can easily create a dozen or more words from a single root) very much depends on what people speak the language. 3000 words (or at least, 3000 roots) is probably sufficient for a hunter-gatherer community. More words, and you're quickly venturing into jargon (or at least domain-specific language), book language, borrowings from "higher" cultures, and so on. So my advise would be to see what semantic domains you need expension into, and focus on those areas, and think about what would be the source of words. You mentioned "late Renaissance" and "early Enlightenment", but those are cultural movements, not stages of development (and they're 250 years apart, 250 years in which the technological progress was immense). Does your culture look back at an older civilization and borrow heavily from it, seeing it as an ideal? Do you need words for that kind of development, or is your goal just to announce you've created another 1000 words? In which case I'd say feed your dictionary into AI and let it generate your words.


JAL

e¸{ºd¸dº|©²è\K\\`d«
(your thought like mine whose language containing only one hundred of named)
I think so too, with my conlang of only 100 semantic primitives...

Gan, gan, gynos-i orkoton neison balikteranonen akonen nakykonen kteranon, tasar gynos-i balikteranon la-akon.
rest / rest / day-CONST automaton moron-N constructed.language-OBJ my-N-OBJ for-N-OBJ create-PRES.ACT.PART-N / this-SUBJ day-CONST constructed.language NEG-my-N
"Okay, so, the day when a damn robot works on my conlang is the day it stops being my conlang."

xxx wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2026 1:03 pm e¸{ºd¸dº|©²è\K\\`d«
(your thought like mine whose language containing only one hundred of named)
I think so too, with my conlang of only 100 semantic primitives...

Hwe bwo luze, he nge zyi vawe vudyi wo.
Alien, state all your semantic primitives.

Ndwinge ngai ne go gwamba vudyi.
My language has about two hundred morphemes.

Myei lye do, yui dyi ye dzo dyo u bye bya ndwinge.
But there are also loanwords.

jal wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2026 10:57 am

Pedant wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2026 2:05 pm"Phaeroian now has more than 3,000 words, and I want to raise that number to 4,000. Anyone have any suggestions as to what to translate?"

Pedant wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2026 3:16 pm"The empires of the Trithalassic are at about the same level of tech as Europe during the Late Renaissance or early Enlightenment.

This discussion should be in the other Conlang thread I think, but I think that "I have 3000 words and I want 4000" is a misguided goal. The amount of "words" a language needs (and note that "words" is an extremely vague term, as a rich derivational morphology can easily create a dozen or more words from a single root) very much depends on what people speak the language.

Nai zuzyo.
I agree.

U ha ndei yu dyii bawe, do wai he myegi zye wi lye dyi u nggwelo nebyo zyu dwei ma.
If your goal is to have many words, then you should just create more words without thinking about what they are.

I hi do: I dyi ye ndzwa mo u ndu vyara.
Tada: there's a word for someone eating under a tree.

I hi do: I dyi ye ndzwa ni nwi u ye li u ngoi bozwa u zyei yu dei vwevwe gyabi u ye ze bo zolo mozwa u nyoi bi wi yu nilwo ye lu zwizwii ngwe.
Tada: There's a word for the feeling you get when you're thirsty because you're watching a sunset and don't want to go and drink water until the colours in the sky are gone.

Mye dena dyii myege ba ginggwa ne nge.
But these words will only rarely be spoken.

Bo zyeu ndyodyii li baba bawei he ngegyo vye ngingi zyi vyu u nge zyi ndwingei ngenge.
One who wants to expand vocabulary should write the kind of stories that the speakers of the language will tell.

Pedant wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2026 4:39 pmGan, gan, gynos-i orkoton neison balikteranonen akonen nakykonen kteranon, tasar gynos-i balikteranon la-akon.

Imralu wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2026 9:26 pmMyei lye do, yui dyi ye dzo dyo u bye bya ndwinge.

c·zr¨«c¹¹Lªrª¨«Iz·«eJeª
(my invention by brain for new words not invented by man or other...)
I am an a priori conlanger...

Imralu wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2026 9:26 pm I hi do: I dyi ye ndzwa mo u ndu vyara.
I hi do: I dyi ye ndzwa ni nwi u ye li u ngoi bozwa u zyei yu dei vwevwe gyabi u ye ze bo zolo mozwa u nyoi bi wi yu nilwo ye lu zwizwii ngwe.
Mye dena dyii myege ba ginggwa ne nge.

rÅq¶qÇqÅ
(your definition of my language...)
that's my conlang....