Zompist Bboard Again

malloc wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 5:21 pmHorrible news. I accidentally drank something nonvegan. Just lost my five year kale chip. Goddamn it all. The one thing I could legitimately call successful about myself and now that's gone.

What's "gone" exactly? An unbroken streak? So what? This isn't Duolingo; in real life, there are no prizes awarded for something like that. That "five-year kale chip" is all in your head.

You've been strictly vegan for 1,825 out of the last 1,826 days. That's functionally no different from being strictly vegan for 1,825 out of 1,825 days. It's like you started one day later than you originally did. Regardless, that's no mean accomplishment! It stands no matter what else happens now.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 8:29 pmWhat's "gone" exactly? An unbroken streak? So what? This isn't Duolingo; in real life, there are no prizes awarded for something like that. That "five-year kale chip" is all in your head.

It means that if someone asks me how long I've been vegan, I can only say "one day", which hardly sounds impressive. There are plenty of people who are technically vegan for one day simply because they didn't feel like eating anything but plant-based foods that day. Putting it another way, if an alcoholic manages to stay sober for five years and then falls off the wagon, wouldn't you consider that a grave failure on their part?

malloc wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 8:45 pm

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 8:29 pmWhat's "gone" exactly? An unbroken streak? So what? This isn't Duolingo; in real life, there are no prizes awarded for something like that. That "five-year kale chip" is all in your head.

It means that if someone asks me how long I've been vegan, I can only say "one day", which hardly sounds impressive. There are plenty of people who are technically vegan for one day simply because they didn't feel like eating anything but plant-based foods that day. Putting it another way, if an alcoholic manages to stay sober for five years and then falls off the wagon, wouldn't you consider that a grave failure on their part?

This is ... not accurate though. You've been a vegan for 5+ years but recently mistakenly and accidentally ingested something non-vegan. You didn't intentionally eat something non-vegan. Even most religions with strict dietary codes make allowances for the occasional mistake or situations where you were forced by necessity to eat something against the code. Are you going to be stricter with yourself than all but the harshest religions? Or are you going to accept that you made a mistake and have otherwise been a "devout" vegan, and jump back on the dietary horse?

linguistcat wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 9:48 pmThis is ... not accurate though. You've been a vegan for 5+ years but recently mistakenly and accidentally ingested something non-vegan. You didn't intentionally eat something non-vegan. Even most religions with strict dietary codes make allowances for the occasional mistake or situations where you were forced by necessity to eat something against the code. Are you going to be stricter with yourself than all but the harshest religions? Or are you going to accept that you made a mistake and have otherwise been a "devout" vegan, and jump back on the dietary horse?

Sure, but leaving Judaism is considerably harder than leaving veganism, regardless of how much you violate Jewish dietary laws. Currently those five years count for nothing, at least for defining myself as vegan. I might as well have eaten nothing but foie gras and ortolan buntings for all the difference it would make. From here on out, I must start from scratch in building my reputation as a vegan. I will have to tell others that I waited until 34, long after most vegans made the switch.

Furthermore, it was a carton of orange juice that was almost empty before I realized it wasn't vegan, so I have been breaking vegan for several days.

malloc wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 8:45 pm

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 8:29 pmWhat's "gone" exactly? An unbroken streak? So what? This isn't Duolingo; in real life, there are no prizes awarded for something like that. That "five-year kale chip" is all in your head.

It means that if someone asks me how long I've been vegan, I can only say "one day", which hardly sounds impressive.

No, one day is how long you’ve gone without ingesting something non-vegan. As linguisticat says, it takes more than that to make you non-vegan. This isn’t magic, it’s praxis.

And who are you trying to impress with your veganness anyway?

malloc wrote: I might as well have eaten nothing but foie gras and ortolan buntings for all the difference it would make.

Literally not a single vegan I know (and I know quite a few) thinks this way. They have a lot of respect for people who try to reduce their consumption of animal products even if they fall short of giving them up completely.

Putting it another way, if an alcoholic manages to stay sober for five years and then falls off the wagon, wouldn't you consider that a grave failure on their part?

But that’s not what happened. You didn’t go hog wild at Big Sticky’s or anything.

In reality, it’s equivalent to an alcoholic having a drink of fruit punch only to find out afterwards someone spiked it. Then they go right back to not drinking alcohol again. At no point did they lose control and become an alcoholic again.

You are just looking for excuses to beat yourself up. It’s not healthy behaviour and you should stop.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 10:16 pmNo, one day is how long you’ve gone without ingesting something non-vegan. As linguisticat says, it takes more than that to make you non-vegan. This isn’t magic, it’s praxis.

Actually several days, because it took me that long to notice that it included non-vegan ingredients.

In reality, it’s equivalent to an alcoholic having a drink of fruit punch only to find out afterwards someone spiked it. Then they go right back to not drinking alcohol again. At no point did they lose control and become an alcoholic again.

Sure, but AA still takes away their chip and requires them to start the twelve steps over again.

malloc wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 10:23 pm Actually several days, because it took me that long to notice that it included non-vegan ingredients.

That’s a trivial distinction in this context. The salient aspect is that it wasn’t intentional.

In reality, it’s equivalent to an alcoholic having a drink of fruit punch only to find out afterwards someone spiked it. Then they go right back to not drinking alcohol again. At no point did they lose control and become an alcoholic again.

Sure, but AA still takes away their chip and requires them to start the twelve steps over again.

And you know this how?

Even if they do, so what? They’re not the final word on alcoholism and being sober is different from being vegan in any case.

That "kale chip" thing is really very silly. Veganism isn't a religion, and you shouldn't treat it as one. You made no conscious choice to consume an animal-based product, so you have lived, in good faith, as a vegan through all that time. If anybody suggests otherwise, they're either being very silly themselves, or not likely somebody you want in your life. I understand it can be a bit upsetting to have mistakenly eaten something like that, but it doesn't invalidate how you've lived before.

Y'all being trolled and trollled again and this time the bait is a "kale chip".

Are you saying the kale is a lie?

Fudge, one of my Mandelbrot videos received a copyright claim for the music I used... even though I was careful to take a public domain recording. Apparently it's not actually in the public domain. Or is it? Given how sh**y the Youtube system is, who knows?

My videos aren't monetized, so I don't think it's too important. But it's really annoying.

Israel and Palestine. Just... Israel and Palestine.

Ryusenshi wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 8:24 amIsrael and Palestine. Just... Israel and Palestine.

As terrible as it is, I remember methru pointing out that Israel and Palestine are nothing compared to India and Pakistan. I am slightly optimistic that (some) Israelis and Palestinians are doing something towards peace. I wish something like that was happening with India and Pakistan as well, but at least the cross-border rivalry seems a little better now than it used to be.

Why am I not surprised by the IDF blowing up the building containing both AP and Al Jazeera's offices?

I fear I may be having a midlife crisis. I’m not even 30.

Man in Space wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 11:03 am I fear I may be having a midlife crisis. I’m not even 30.

Mine started at 24. Commiserations.

Mine started at 18!

(Three more to go, and someone's will have started at birth.)

No one knows how long they're going to live so I elected to have an ongoing "mid" life crisis ever since I first understood my mortality at 7.