Zompist Bboard Again

hwhatting wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2023 9:11 am

keenir wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:32 pm *nods* brochure or pamphlet both work for me...

Not a native speaker, so just to be sure - for me, brochure is independent of content, while pamphlet implies some kind of ideological (religious, political) content, or at least some kind of opinion-piece / rant. Or am I just carrying that implication over from German?

You’re not entirely wrong, but for me I’d say the biggest difference is that a brochure is glossy and trying to sell you something (‘advertising brochure’ is a common collocation), whereas a pamphlet is non-glossy and more informational in its aims.

hwhatting wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2023 9:11 am

keenir wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:32 pm *nods* brochure or pamphlet both work for me...

Not a native speaker, so just to be sure - for me, brochure is independent of content, while pamphlet implies some kind of ideological (religious, political) content, or at least some kind of opinion-piece / rant.

Those are how they're often found, yes...but you can also have gardening pamphlets, library pamphlets extolling a particular genre of book or film.

To me, a brochure often looks like a slender magazine; while a pamphlet is only one or a few pages, often folded, with the text and images not running down the length of the unfolded page, but running down between the folds.

Thanks to you both for the clarifications!

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2023 9:13 am

hwhatting wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2023 9:11 am

keenir wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:32 pm *nods* brochure or pamphlet both work for me...

Not a native speaker, so just to be sure - for me, brochure is independent of content, while pamphlet implies some kind of ideological (religious, political) content, or at least some kind of opinion-piece / rant. Or am I just carrying that implication over from German?

You’re not entirely wrong, but for me I’d say the biggest difference is that a brochure is glossy and trying to sell you something (‘advertising brochure’ is a common collocation), whereas a pamphlet is non-glossy and more informational in its aims.

I would say I agree with you there here.

hwhatting wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2023 9:11 am

keenir wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:32 pm *nods* brochure or pamphlet both work for me...

Not a native speaker, so just to be sure - for me, brochure is independent of content, while pamphlet implies some kind of ideological (religious, political) content, or at least some kind of opinion-piece / rant. Or am I just carrying that implication over from German?

Actually, for me, "brochure" has the stronger connotation, namely of some commercial aim. I can imagine asking a business owner "Do you have a brochure?" whereas asking "Do you have a pamphlet?" sounds odd, like, yeah, I just collect random pamphlets for fun and hand them out to strangers. (Though, granted, asking either question probably sounds bizarre as hell to folks who grew up just browsing websites.) There are implications of glossiness and perhaps even misrepresentation, e.g. "This doesn't look like the brochure!"

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 10:24 am Actually, for me, "brochure" has the stronger connotation, namely of some commercial aim. I can imagine asking a business owner "Do you have a brochure?" whereas asking "Do you have a pamphlet?" sounds odd, like, yeah, I just collect random pamphlets for fun and hand them out to strangers. (Though, granted, asking either question probably sounds bizarre as hell to folks who grew up just browsing websites.) There are implications of glossiness and perhaps even misrepresentation, e.g. "This doesn't look like the brochure!"

How would you translate "Die Broschüre [...], wie man sich vor Karies schützt"?

hwhatting wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2023 9:11 amNot a native speaker, so just to be sure - for me, brochure is independent of content, while pamphlet implies some kind of ideological (religious, political) content, or at least some kind of opinion-piece / rant. Or am I just carrying that implication over from German?

I'd say yes to the latter. Both Wikipedia and Merriam Webster do not mention anything about specific content.


JAL

jal wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2023 3:13 am

hwhatting wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2023 9:11 amNot a native speaker, so just to be sure - for me, brochure is independent of content, while pamphlet implies some kind of ideological (religious, political) content, or at least some kind of opinion-piece / rant. Or am I just carrying that implication over from German?

I'd say yes to the latter. Both Wikipedia and Merriam Webster do not mention anything about specific content.

Pamphlet has picked up that connotation of ideological content in my (native-speaker American) English too, for what it's worth. I think it must be an extension of that idea that pamphlets aren't for business advertising, and so are both more cheaply made and more verbose than brochures, the idea of which is then exaggerated into the idea of a long treatise distributed to passers-by on stapled-together printer paper, which at that point is almost inevitably strongly opinionated.

I thought "tract" had already the meaning of a religious or political pamphlet?


JAL

I would generally prefer tract for something specifically intended to promote religious conversion, and haven't found myself using the word pamphlet much at all in recent years.

Tract to my reckoning has a broader meaning than that: full-sized books, posts online and webpages, and speeches could all be called tracts if they're sufficiently opinionated. The line between tract and rant is generally that rants are off-the-cuff and informal while tracts are in some way prepared ahead of time; screed cares less about level of preparation and is the most obviously derisive of the three words, though none are particularly neutral in tone, and so if somebody asked me if I'd read their seventy-page printer-paper zine on esoteric Catholic Maoism or whatever I'd probably call it a pamphlet in answering if i didn't want to offend them.

I should note that it's not like pamphlet has exclusively political or religious implications either, but just that the prototypical pamphlet does, and that I would consider printed tracts in the appropriate format generally to be pamphlets but certainly not brochures. Booklet also exists as sort of a backup neutral term: both pamphlets and brochures can be categorized as booklets, but I'd rather be more specific with them and so booklet ends up reserved for things which are neither, just kind of an implication of being blandly informative. Manuals are often booklets and are probably what I use booklet most for, though since the word manual specifies content rather than format they're of course also often books and webpages and so on.

All in all, this is what these words for me are:

• A brochure is typically glossy commercial literature trying to sell me something.
• A tract is typically religious literature trying to convert me.
• A pamphlet is a rather neutral term for small pieces of low-budget literature; note that a tract can be a pamphlet, but a brochure typically is not due to not being low-budget enough (but low-budget commercial literature may be a pamphlet).
• A booklet is like a pamphlet, but often longer and less low-budget; lengthier brochures and tracts can be booklets, but shorter one generally are not.
• A rant is off-the-cuff, highly opinionated logorrhea with little preparation; these are very often political or religious.
• A screed is like a rant but typically more prepared; like a rant, these are very often political or religious.

Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 1:37 am

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 10:24 am Actually, for me, "brochure" has the stronger connotation, namely of some commercial aim. I can imagine asking a business owner "Do you have a brochure?" whereas asking "Do you have a pamphlet?" sounds odd, like, yeah, I just collect random pamphlets for fun and hand them out to strangers. (Though, granted, asking either question probably sounds bizarre as hell to folks who grew up just browsing websites.) There are implications of glossiness and perhaps even misrepresentation, e.g. "This doesn't look like the brochure!"

How would you translate "Die Broschüre [...], wie man sich vor Karies schützt"?

"The pamphlet...on how to prevent cavities."

A "brochure" would be something glossy produced by a cosmetic dentistry practice.

Thank you, everyone, interesting discussion!

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2023 2:14 pm

Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 1:37 am

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 10:24 am Actually, for me, "brochure" has the stronger connotation, namely of some commercial aim. I can imagine asking a business owner "Do you have a brochure?" whereas asking "Do you have a pamphlet?" sounds odd, like, yeah, I just collect random pamphlets for fun and hand them out to strangers. (Though, granted, asking either question probably sounds bizarre as hell to folks who grew up just browsing websites.) There are implications of glossiness and perhaps even misrepresentation, e.g. "This doesn't look like the brochure!"

How would you translate "Die Broschüre [...], wie man sich vor Karies schützt"?

"The pamphlet...on how to prevent cavities."

A "brochure" would be something glossy produced by a cosmetic dentistry practice.

I would say the same exact thing.

I'd call these either brochures or pamphlets:

keenir wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2023 3:30 pm I'd call these either brochures or pamphlets:

Good choice of book in the background!

I'd add a couple more categories of things:

A handout is a very informal way to package a small text, often stapled together. (But a company could use the term for something fancier.)

An appliance or computer part can come with things named by their function: manual, warranty, instructions. If they're big enough they get into booklet territory.

You could get a packet for your new job or insurance policy.

You used to get offprints of journal articles. Probably replaced by downloads.

If something is regularly published it gets a whole 'nother set of terms (e.g. zine).

keenir wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2023 3:30 pm I'd call these either brochures or pamphlets:

Ah... are those a single sheet of paper? I'd call that a leaflet

Otherwise, I'm with the general consensus here on brochure vs pamphlet vs tract

zompist wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2023 5:23 pm A handout is a very informal way to package a small text, often stapled together. (But a company could use the term for something fancier.)

Oh, for me a handout is distributed to a group of people in some kind of teaching or training session, containing some version of the information being presented.

quinterbeck wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2023 11:20 pm

keenir wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2023 3:30 pm I'd call these either brochures or pamphlets:

Ah... are those a single sheet of paper? I'd call that a leaflet

Folded several times, yes they are. I'd forgotten about leaflets - thank you.

quinterbeck wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2023 11:20 pm

zompist wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2023 5:23 pm A handout is a very informal way to package a small text, often stapled together. (But a company could use the term for something fancier.)

Oh, for me a handout is distributed to a group of people in some kind of teaching or training session, containing some version of the information being presented.

That's another way of saying the same thing.