Zompist Bboard Again

Richard W wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:01 pm Yes, but Japanese and Arabic have noun case, and that swings it. Also, I'm not sure it's completely sound to say that English doesn't have a genitive case for nouns.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:16 pm

Richard W wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:01 pm Yes, but Japanese and Arabic have noun case, and that swings it. Also, I'm not sure it's completely sound to say that English doesn't have a genitive case for nouns.

I have read things that would class the English genitive on NP's as a case, even though morphologically it is a postpositional clitic and not an affix. (I cannot recall exactly where I read this though.)

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:23 am If I'm not very much mistaken, the genitive in English is simply an inherited form; the "his genitive" doesn't appear until something like the Twelfth or Thirteenth century, and is, I believe, some sort of analogical formation, or the result of the confusion of various unstressed words that now all do contract to some sort of [s~z] depending on context, and tend to be represented orthographically as 's.

Raphael wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:38 pm (I originally wanted to post this in the "What are you reading, watching and listening to?" thread in Ephemera, but then decided on this thread instead.)

I just started reading a somewhat tongue-in-cheek German book on English influences on the German language where, early in the book, the author claims that English has so many more Latin-derived words than German because of the long time the Romans ruled over what is now England.

Like, where do you even start? I'm this close to asking for my money back.

2+3 Clusivity wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:21 pm So, my Google-fu is not helping me out today. Are there any basic grammar sketches of Old Georgia and/or Proto-Kartvelian? Basically looking for declension, screeve, etc. tables.

Think there are some in Georgian and/or Russian, but I'm hoping to find something in English, German, or (maybe) French.

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:42 pm

2+3 Clusivity wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:21 pm So, my Google-fu is not helping me out today. Are there any basic grammar sketches of Old Georgia and/or Proto-Kartvelian? Basically looking for declension, screeve, etc. tables.

Think there are some in Georgian and/or Russian, but I'm hoping to find something in English, German, or (maybe) French.

There are some books which contain ones. Kartwelsprachen by Heinz Fähnrich is in German, and contains sketches of both Proto-Kartvelian and Old Georgian. The first volume of The Indigenous Languages of the Caucasus, Volume 1 by Alice C. Harris is in English, and also contains such sketches. Both books do not agree in all points on Proto-Kartvelian, though. Also, they are probably too expensive to buy them, so better try finding a library that has them. (Myself, I checked out both by way of inter-library loan.)

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:19 pm

2+3 Clusivity wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:21 pm ...

I should warn you that you will quite probably find these books disappointing, especially concerning the verbs. Verbs in Kartvelian work quite similarly as in PIE: each of the three screeve series ("present", "aorist", "perfect") uses a different stem, and there are several ways of forming these stems, involving ablaut and various pre-, in- and suffixes. These cannot easily be rolled up into paradigms; they have to be learned for each verb separately.

Zju wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:52 pm Are there languages that have phonemic syllable boundaries? I.e. is there a language that distinguishes between /'uf.ljuf/ and /'u.fljuf/?

2+3 Clusivity wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:58 pm

Zju wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:52 pm Are there languages that have phonemic syllable boundaries? I.e. is there a language that distinguishes between /'uf.ljuf/ and /'u.fljuf/?

Yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affricate ... _sequences

Zju wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:52 pm Are there languages that have phonemic syllable boundaries? I.e. is there a language that distinguishes between /'uf.ljuf/ and /'u.fljuf/?

2+3 Clusivity wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:56 pm

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:19 pm

2+3 Clusivity wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:21 pm ...

I should warn you that you will quite probably find these books disappointing, especially concerning the verbs. Verbs in Kartvelian work quite similarly as in PIE: each of the three screeve series ("present", "aorist", "perfect") uses a different stem, and there are several ways of forming these stems, involving ablaut and various pre-, in- and suffixes. These cannot easily be rolled up into paradigms; they have to be learned for each verb separately.

Sheesh, worse than that, simply not available for purchase taking a few quick looks. Yeah, I'll have to see what wordcat, etc. has for me. Thanks W.E.

Otto Kretschmer wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:13 pm Is the hypothesis of Austric languages any good?

Otto Kretschmer wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:13 pm Is the hypothesis of Austric languages any good?

Richard W wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:17 pm

Otto Kretschmer wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:13 pm Is the hypothesis of Austric languages any good?

It looks like true but not very useful. Austro-Tai is solid in so far as it claims that Tai-Kadai has a fair few words cognate with Austronesian; I'm not sure that mass borrowing has been excluded.