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[xxx]

it is not in our power
to use with discernment the technology
that has taken possession of our soul...

we multiply to the very limits
of the planet that carries us,
setting it ablaze in a great fire of energy
that will take us with it...

[KathTheDragon]

Getting back on this point...
I think one point about degrowth that is often overlooked is that it makes a lot of sense for some countries, and no sense at all in others.

Typically developing countries need economic growth and their energy consumption will increase.

In the West, though... GDP per capita in France has doubled between 1990 and 2015. As far as I can see standards of living have not significantly improved since.
As for energy consumption... Our energy use is still highly inefficient (though there have been improvements.)

In some ways cheap transportation can be damaging. No offence to Chileans or Canadians... but we don't need to import apples from Chili, or mustard from Canada.

I think you've picked up an incorrect understanding of degrowth (which I don't blame you for, I also thought this until I learned what it really is literally yesterday. The name really doesn't help at-a-glance understanding). Degrowth is not "zero or negative growth please", it's actually "stop focussing on growth for growth's sake please". The wellbeing of the people is the primary goal, and negative growth is simply an allowed development if it turns out to be beneficial, as it may well be in the West. But for the Global South, growth is undeniably a good thing for the standard of living, and degrowth would still advocate for it.

[keenir]

it is not in our power
to use with discernment the technology
that has taken possession of our soul...

So...you don't think anyone has restraint?

we multiply to the very limits
of the planet that carries us,

we aren't even close.

setting it ablaze in a great fire of energy
that will take us with it...

People say "we're destroying the planet" and "we're killing the planet"......the Earth has survived megadisasters before, and will survive this one as well. Look at the End-Permian.

[Man in Space]

Spaghetti.

[malloc]

This might sound silly but I have always been confused about the connection between cyberpunk and steampunk. My understanding was that cyberpunk examines the impact of digital technology on society and often features outcasts suffering under late-stage capitalism and the like, hence the name. Steampunk by contrast mostly centers on alt-history portrayals of the Victorian era with an emphasis on technology from that time developing in unexpected and interesting ways. It always seemed to me that they are quite distinct thematically and conceptually, so what was the intended analogy?

[keenir]

This might sound silly but I have always been confused about the connection between cyberpunk and steampunk. My understanding was that cyberpunk examines the impact of digital technology on society and often features outcasts suffering under late-stage capitalism and the like, hence the name. Steampunk by contrast mostly centers on alt-history portrayals of the Victorian era with an emphasis on technology from that time developing in unexpected and interesting ways. It always seemed to me that they are quite distinct thematically and conceptually, so what was the intended analogy?

as far as I could ever tell, the only connection was that -punk, which is saying "look how high-tech we've gotten with just steam power" or cybernetics, or sails (yep - Sailpunk)

[xxx]

So...you don't think anyone has restraint?

not as a group it seems (and individually we're nothing...)

we multiply to the very limits
of the planet that carries us,

we aren't even close.

The Holocene extinction is a proof enough...

setting it ablaze in a great fire of energy
that will take us with it...

People say "we're destroying the planet" and "we're killing the planet"......the Earth has survived megadisasters before, and will survive this one as well. Look at the End-Permian.

of course, nothing is lost, nothing is created, but everything is transformed, and humanity will have burned in the great pyre it has lit...

[keenir]

So...you don't think anyone has restraint?

not as a group it seems (and individually we're nothing...)

???

formerly: wow, and here I thought RottingBones could scare me with depressing attitudes...if you don't believe that you or any of us are anything...then whats the point of talking about it? if you feel that you can't do anything, then isn't talking about an inability to do anything ever...just rubbing your own nose in it?

I hope I misunderstood you there.

we multiply to the very limits
of the planet that carries us,

we aren't even close.

The Holocene extinction is a proof enough...

Proof? I'm not arguing that there is humans are multiplying; I'm disputing your claim that humans have already reached Earth's carrying capacity.

the Holocene Extinctions (not all one event, not all one cause) even collectively, are nothing beside the Permian or Ordovician....though none of the Holocene Extinctions are the result of carrying capacity being reached.

setting it ablaze in a great fire of energy
that will take us with it...

People say "we're destroying the planet" and "we're killing the planet"......the Earth has survived megadisasters before, and will survive this one as well. Look at the End-Permian.

of course, nothing is lost, nothing is created, but everything is transformed, and humanity will have burned in the great pyre it has lit...

Thats humans; thats not Earth.

[Raphael]

Travis B.: No, why would a personal hobby be treated as a counterpart to a commercial enterprise?

keenir: Are you sure it makes sense to try to argue with someone who just predictively and repetitively regurgitates the opinions that have been fashionable in the more anti-technology wings of the world's intellectual circles for the past hundred years because they think it will make them look profound and insightful?

[xxx]

just rubbing your own nose in it

isn't that precisely the purpose of speech...

the Holocene Extinctions (not all one event, not all one cause) even collectively, are nothing beside the Permian or Ordovician....though none of the Holocene Extinctions are the result of carrying capacity being reached.

it depends on the degree of skepticism you have...

Thats humans; thats not Earth.

that is precisely what I said...

[foxcatdog]

I'm going to have to watch some french new wave movies sometime they seem more impressive then their hollywood spawn. However i would have never known movies can be good just based on visual style and directing if stereolab never titled one of their album tracks Brakhage since i would have never been introduced to directors which play with little plot but great artistic sense like Maya Deren and Marie Menken.

[keenir]

keenir: Are you sure it makes sense to try to argue with someone who just predictively and repetitively regurgitates the opinions that have been fashionable in the more anti-technology wings of the world's intellectual circles for the past hundred years because they think it will make them look profound and insightful?

No, not really; the inability to distinguish between "humans" and "earth" is a rather telling sign of what you say; as is saying skepticism has anything to do with the number of extinctions in the Holocene or their cause.
*sigh* I think I was trying to engage in a conversation, because of the claim that nothing anyone does, matters.

the phrase "maybe this time, it will be different" does draw me to some of the discussions I've entered at times, like that one, also with Rotting Bones.

[Raphael]

Content warning: real life body horror:

Now for something unrelated and random, and very creepy:


Live worm found in Australian woman's brain

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-66643241

[xxx]

[no] skepticism has anything to do with the number of extinctions in the Holocene or their cause.

you are skeptical when you put the importance of the Holocene extinction into perspective and doubt its causes...
until it has been completed, but then it's a safe bet that no human will be able to verify it...

[Ares Land]

Content warning: real life body horror:

Now for something unrelated and random, and very creepy:


Live worm found in Australian woman's brain

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-66643241

Parasitic disease is always creepy, but this one takes it to a new level.

I think you've picked up an incorrect understanding of degrowth (which I don't blame you for, I also thought this until I learned what it really is literally yesterday. The name really doesn't help at-a-glance understanding). Degrowth is not "zero or negative growth please", it's actually "stop focussing on growth for growth's sake please". The wellbeing of the people is the primary goal, and negative growth is simply an allowed development if it turns out to be beneficial, as it may well be in the West. But for the Global South, growth is undeniably a good thing for the standard of living, and degrowth would still advocate for it.

Oh, yes, absolutely. My phrasing is a bit awkward there.

[Travis B.]

Travis B.: No, why would a personal hobby be treated as a counterpart to a commercial enterprise?

The main difference here is that no one has asked for commercial tech support (i.e. paying me to resolve their issues with priority), even though I know at least one person uses it for their business. And while you might call it a personal hobby, enough people would be up a creek at this point if I stopped developing and supporting it (the proverbial "hit by a bus"). Taking this to its final conclusion would you consider Linus Torvalds' work on the Linux kernel prior to when he was officially paid to work on it a "personal hobby"?

[Raphael]

Travis B.: No, why would a personal hobby be treated as a counterpart to a commercial enterprise?

The main difference here is that no one has asked for commercial tech support (i.e. paying me to resolve their issues with priority), even though I know at least one person uses it for their business. And while you might call it a personal hobby, enough people would be up a creek at this point if I stopped developing and supporting it (the proverbial "hit by a bus"). Taking this to its final conclusion would you consider Linus Torvalds' work on the Linux kernel prior to when he was officially paid to work on it a "personal hobby"?

Of course there'd have to be special guidelines for cases where a personal hobby turns into a quasi-commercial thing so gradually the people involved don't even notice. But I guess such guidelines could probably be worked out somehow.

[bradrn]

Live worm found in Australian woman's brain

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-66643241

I saw a first-rate reply to this in the Sydney Morning Herald:

Why all the fuss over a worm in the brain? I’ve had butterflies in my tummy, a frog in my throat, and I’ve been told more than once that I’ve got rocks in my head.

[Raphael]

I saw a first-rate reply to this in the Sydney Morning Herald:

Why all the fuss over a worm in the brain? I’ve had butterflies in my tummy, a frog in my throat, and I’ve been told more than once that I’ve got rocks in my head.

Great comment, but I'm a bit confused about the page it's on. Did they just collect comments on a lot of different items and put them on one page?

[bradrn]

I saw a first-rate reply to this in the Sydney Morning Herald:

Why all the fuss over a worm in the brain? I’ve had butterflies in my tummy, a frog in my throat, and I’ve been told more than once that I’ve got rocks in my head.

Great comment, but I'm a bit confused about the page it's on. Did they just collect comments on a lot of different items and put them on one page?

It’s an old-standing daily column where people write in with interesting and humorous topics — like a Letters page, but less serious. For more see e.g. the Wikipedia article.

(And, incidentally, Manojlovic holds the record for the most number of published comments in it. Clearly he’s a funny guy.)