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Re: Random Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 4:14 pm
by xxx
it is not in our power
to use with discernment the technology
that has taken possession of our soul...
we multiply to the very limits
of the planet that carries us,
setting it ablaze in a great fire of energy
that will take us with it...
Re: Random Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:23 pm
by KathTheDragon
Ares Land wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 1:21 pm
Getting back on this point...
I think one point about degrowth that is often overlooked is that it makes a lot of sense for some countries, and no sense at all in others.
Typically developing countries need economic growth and their energy consumption will increase.
In the West, though... GDP per capita in France has doubled between 1990 and 2015. As far as I can see standards of living have not significantly improved since.
As for energy consumption... Our energy use is still highly inefficient (though there have been improvements.)
In some ways cheap transportation can be damaging. No offence to Chileans or Canadians... but we don't need to import apples from Chili, or mustard from Canada.
I think you've picked up an incorrect understanding of degrowth (which I don't blame you for, I also thought this until I learned what it really is literally yesterday. The name really doesn't help at-a-glance understanding). Degrowth is not "zero or negative growth please", it's actually "stop focussing on growth for growth's sake please". The wellbeing of the people is the primary goal, and negative growth is simply an allowed development if it turns out to be beneficial, as it may well be in the West. But for the Global South, growth is undeniably a good thing for the standard of living, and degrowth would still advocate for it.
Re: Random Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 7:19 pm
by keenir
xxx wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 4:14 pm
it is not in our power
to use with discernment the technology
that has taken possession of our soul...
So...you don't think anyone has restraint?
we multiply to the very limits
of the planet that carries us,
we aren't even close.
setting it ablaze in a great fire of energy
that will take us with it...
People say "we're destroying the planet" and "we're killing the planet"......the Earth has survived megadisasters before, and will survive this one as well. Look at the End-Permian.
Re: Random Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 7:23 pm
by Man in Space
Spaghetti.
Re: Random Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 7:41 pm
by malloc
This might sound silly but I have always been confused about the connection between cyberpunk and steampunk. My understanding was that cyberpunk examines the impact of digital technology on society and often features outcasts suffering under late-stage capitalism and the like, hence the name. Steampunk by contrast mostly centers on alt-history portrayals of the Victorian era with an emphasis on technology from that time developing in unexpected and interesting ways. It always seemed to me that they are quite distinct thematically and conceptually, so what was the intended analogy?
Re: Random Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 7:59 pm
by keenir
malloc wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 7:41 pm
This might sound silly but I have always been confused about the connection between cyberpunk and steampunk. My understanding was that cyberpunk examines the impact of digital technology on society and often features outcasts suffering under late-stage capitalism and the like, hence the name. Steampunk by contrast mostly centers on alt-history portrayals of the Victorian era with an emphasis on technology from that time developing in unexpected and interesting ways. It always seemed to me that they are quite distinct thematically and conceptually, so what was the intended analogy?
as far as I could ever tell, the only connection was that
-punk, which is saying "look how high-tech we've gotten with just steam power" or cybernetics, or sails (yep - Sailpunk)
Re: Random Thread
Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 12:42 am
by xxx
keenir wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 7:19 pm
So...you don't think anyone has restraint?
not as a group it seems (and individually we're nothing...)
keenir wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 7:19 pm
we multiply to the very limits
of the planet that carries us,
we aren't even close.
The Holocene extinction is a proof enough...
setting it ablaze in a great fire of energy
that will take us with it...
keenir wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 7:19 pm
People say "we're destroying the planet" and "we're killing the planet"......the Earth has survived megadisasters before, and will survive this one as well. Look at the End-Permian.
of course, nothing is lost, nothing is created, but everything is transformed, and humanity will have burned in the great pyre it has lit...
Re: Random Thread
Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 1:02 am
by keenir
xxx wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 12:42 am
keenir wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 7:19 pm
So...you don't think anyone has restraint?
not as a group it seems (and individually we're nothing...)
???
formerly:
wow, and here I thought RottingBones could scare me with depressing attitudes...if you don't believe that you or any of us are anything...then whats the point of talking about it? if you feel that you can't do anything, then isn't talking about an inability to do anything ever...just rubbing your own nose in it?
I hope I misunderstood you there.
keenir wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 7:19 pm
we multiply to the very limits
of the planet that carries us,
we aren't even close.
The Holocene extinction is a proof enough...
Proof? I'm not arguing that there is humans are multiplying; I'm disputing your claim that humans have already reached Earth's carrying capacity.
the Holocene Extinctions (not all one event, not all one cause) even collectively, are nothing beside the Permian or Ordovician....though none of the Holocene Extinctions are the result of carrying capacity being reached.
setting it ablaze in a great fire of energy
that will take us with it...
keenir wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 7:19 pm
People say "we're destroying the planet" and "we're killing the planet"......the Earth has survived megadisasters before, and will survive this one as well. Look at the End-Permian.
of course, nothing is lost, nothing is created, but everything is transformed, and humanity will have burned in the great pyre it has lit...
Thats humans; thats not Earth.
Re: Random Thread
Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 1:59 am
by Raphael
Travis B.: No, why would a personal hobby be treated as a counterpart to a commercial enterprise?
keenir: Are you sure it makes sense to try to argue with someone who just predictively and repetitively regurgitates the opinions that have been fashionable in the more anti-technology wings of the world's intellectual circles for the past hundred years because they think it will make them look profound and insightful?
Re: Random Thread
Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 2:21 am
by xxx
keenir wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 1:02 am
just rubbing your own nose in it
isn't that precisely the purpose of speech...
the Holocene Extinctions (not all one event, not all one cause) even collectively, are nothing beside the Permian or Ordovician....though none of the Holocene Extinctions are the result of carrying capacity being reached.
it depends on the degree of skepticism you have...
Thats humans; thats not Earth.
that is precisely what I said...
Re: Random Thread
Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 2:26 am
by foxcatdog
I'm going to have to watch some french new wave movies sometime they seem more impressive then their hollywood spawn. However i would have never known movies can be good just based on visual style and directing if stereolab never titled one of their album tracks Brakhage since i would have never been introduced to directors which play with little plot but great artistic sense like Maya Deren and Marie Menken.
Re: Random Thread
Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 2:38 am
by keenir
Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 1:59 amkeenir: Are you sure it makes sense to try to argue with someone who just predictively and repetitively regurgitates the opinions that have been fashionable in the more anti-technology wings of the world's intellectual circles for the past hundred years
because they think it will make them look profound and insightful?
No, not really; the inability to distinguish between "humans" and "earth" is a rather telling sign of what you say; as is saying skepticism has anything to do with the number of extinctions in the Holocene or their cause.
*sigh* I think I was trying to engage in a conversation, because of the claim that nothing anyone does, matters.
the phrase "maybe this time, it will be different" does draw me to some of the discussions I've entered at times, like that one, also with Rotting Bones.
Re: Random Thread
Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 3:02 am
by Raphael
Content warning: real life body horror:
Now for something unrelated and random, and very creepy:
Live worm found in Australian woman's brain
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-66643241
Re: Random Thread
Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 6:56 am
by xxx
keenir wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 2:38 am
[no] skepticism has anything to do with the number of extinctions in the Holocene or their cause.
you are skeptical when you put the importance of the Holocene extinction into perspective and doubt its causes...
until it has been completed, but then it's a safe bet that no human will be able to verify it...
Re: Random Thread
Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 7:47 am
by Ares Land
Parasitic disease is always creepy, but this one takes it to a new level.
KathTheDragon wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:23 pm
I think you've picked up an incorrect understanding of degrowth (which I don't blame you for, I also thought this until I learned what it really is literally yesterday. The name really doesn't help at-a-glance understanding). Degrowth is not "zero or negative growth please", it's actually "stop focussing on growth for growth's sake please". The wellbeing of the people is the primary goal, and negative growth is simply an allowed development if it turns out to be beneficial, as it may well be in the West. But for the Global South, growth is undeniably a good thing for the standard of living, and degrowth would still advocate for it.
Oh, yes, absolutely. My phrasing is a bit awkward there.
Re: Random Thread
Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 12:09 pm
by Travis B.
Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 1:59 am
Travis B.: No, why would a personal hobby be treated as a counterpart to a commercial enterprise?
The main difference here is that no one has asked for commercial tech support (i.e. paying me to resolve their issues with priority), even though I know at least one person uses it for their business. And while you might call it a personal hobby, enough people would be up a creek at this point if I stopped developing and supporting it (the proverbial "hit by a bus"). Taking this to its final conclusion would you consider Linus Torvalds' work on the Linux kernel prior to when he was officially paid to work on it a "personal hobby"?
Re: Random Thread
Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 12:21 pm
by Raphael
Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 12:09 pm
Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 1:59 am
Travis B.: No, why would a personal hobby be treated as a counterpart to a commercial enterprise?
The main difference here is that no one has asked for commercial tech support (i.e. paying me to resolve their issues with priority), even though I know at least one person uses it for their business. And while you might call it a personal hobby, enough people would be up a creek at this point if I stopped developing and supporting it (the proverbial "hit by a bus"). Taking this to its final conclusion would you consider Linus Torvalds' work on the Linux kernel prior to when he was officially paid to work on it a "personal hobby"?
Of course there'd have to be special guidelines for cases where a personal hobby turns into a quasi-commercial thing so gradually the people involved don't even notice. But I guess such guidelines could probably be worked out somehow.
Re: Random Thread
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2023 8:19 am
by bradrn
I saw a first-rate reply to this
in the Sydney Morning Herald:
George Manojlovic wrote:
Why all the fuss over a worm in the brain? I’ve had butterflies in my tummy, a frog in my throat, and I’ve been told more than once that I’ve got rocks in my head.
Re: Random Thread
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2023 9:20 am
by Raphael
bradrn wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 8:19 am
I saw a first-rate reply to this
in the Sydney Morning Herald:
George Manojlovic wrote:
Why all the fuss over a worm in the brain? I’ve had butterflies in my tummy, a frog in my throat, and I’ve been told more than once that I’ve got rocks in my head.
Great comment, but I'm a bit confused about the page it's on. Did they just collect comments on a lot of different items and put them on one page?
Re: Random Thread
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2023 9:42 am
by bradrn
Raphael wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 9:20 am
bradrn wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 8:19 am
I saw a first-rate reply to this
in the Sydney Morning Herald:
George Manojlovic wrote:
Why all the fuss over a worm in the brain? I’ve had butterflies in my tummy, a frog in my throat, and I’ve been told more than once that I’ve got rocks in my head.
Great comment, but I'm a bit confused about the page it's on. Did they just collect comments on a lot of different items and put them on one page?
It’s an old-standing daily column where people write in with interesting and humorous topics — like a Letters page, but less serious. For more see e.g.
the Wikipedia article.
(And, incidentally, Manojlovic holds the record for the most number of published comments in it. Clearly he’s a funny guy.)