Page 18 of 38
Re: Phrase evolution game
Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:42 am
by Otto Kretschmer
StrangerCoug wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:33 am
Have we done ancient Greek yet?
Nope. I was looking for an appropriate sentence but did not find anyyhing
I got Proto Greek though
Re: Phrase evolution game
Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:12 pm
by Travis B.
Otto Kretschmer wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:42 am
StrangerCoug wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:33 am
Have we done ancient Greek yet?
Nope. I was looking for an appropriate sentence but did not find anyyhing
I got Proto Greek though
Is it something other than Schleicher's fable?
Re: Phrase evolution game
Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:36 pm
by Otto Kretschmer
Travis B. wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:12 pm
Otto Kretschmer wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:42 am
StrangerCoug wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:33 am
Have we done ancient Greek yet?
Nope. I was looking for an appropriate sentence but did not find anyyhing
I got Proto Greek though
Is it something other than Schleicher's fable?
Unfortunately no
Koine:
Εν ἀρχῇ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ τὴν γῆν. ἡ δὲ γῆ ἦν ἀόρατος καὶ ἀκατασκεύαστος, καὶ σκότος ἐπάνω τῆς ἀβύσσου, καὶ πνεῦμα θεοῦ ἐπεφέρετο ἐπάνω τοῦ ὕδατος
En archē̂i epoíēsen ho theòs tòn ouranòn kaì tḕn gē̂n. Hē dè gē̂ ē̂n aóratos kaì akataskeúastos, kaì skótos epánō tē̂s abýssou, kaì pneûma theoû epephéreto epánō toû hýdatos
Re: Phrase evolution game
Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:45 pm
by StrangerCoug
- Edit: Retroactively restored a missing smooth breathing.
- The text is given its Koine Greek pronunciation, which is reconstructed here to be as in Modern Greek except that ⟨οι υ υι⟩ are still /y/:
/en arˈxi eˈpy.i.sen o θeˈos ton u.raˈnon ke tin ɣin ‖ i ðe ɣi in aˈo.ra.tos ke a.ka.taˈske.va.stos | ke ˈsko.tos eˈpa.no tis aˈvy.su | ke ˈpnev.ma θeˈu e.peˈfe.re.to eˈpa.no tu ˈy.ða.tos/
- As in Modern Greek, velars front to palatal before a front vowel.
- Nasal consonants nasalize the preceding vowel; final /n/ then elides unless the next word starts with a vowel and there's no intervening pausa.
- Final /s/ debuccalizes to /h/.
[ẽn arˈçi eˈpy.i.sẽn o θeˈoh tõn u.raˈnõ ce tĩ ʝĩ ‖ i ðe ʝi ĩn aˈo.ra.toh ce a.ka.taˈsce.va.stoh | ce ˈsko.toh eˈpã.no tis aˈvy.su | ke ˈpnev.ma θeˈu e.peˈfe.re.to eˈpã.no tu ˈy.ða.toh]
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ τὴν γῆν. ἡ δὲ γῆ ἦν ἀόρατος καὶ ἀκατασκεύαστος, καὶ σκότος ἐπάνω τῆς ἀβύσσου, καὶ πνεῦμα θεοῦ ἐπεφέρετο ἐπάνω τοῦ ὕδατος.
Re: Phrase evolution game
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:02 am
by bradrn
- Transcribe nasal liaison
- i y → ɨ i
- Glide insertion between hiatus
- Complex onsets get prothetic [ɨ] if word-initial, or resyllabification otherwise
- Syllable-final [r] → [n]
- a → ɔ / before velars and labials, a → ɛ / before palatals and [n]
- ʝ nç → ɲ
- v → w
- Minor orthographic changes; romanisation developed anachronistically (coincidentally based on ALA-LC)
[ẽn‿ɛˈɲɨ eˈpi.jɨ.sẽn‿o θeˈwoh tõn‿u.rɛˈnõ ce tɨ̃ ɲɨ̃ ‖ ɨ ðe ɲɨ ɨ̃n‿ɔˈwo.ra.toh ce ɔ.ka.tasˈce.was.toh | ce ɨsˈko.toh eˈpɛ̃.no tɨs ɔˈwi.su | ke ɨpˈnew.ma θeˈwu e.peˈfe.re.to eˈpɛ̃.no tu ˈi.ða.toh]
Ἐν ἀγῇ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ τὴν γῆν. ἡ δὲ γῆ ἦν ἀόρατος καὶ ἀκατασκεύαστος, καὶ ησκότος ἐπάνω τῆς ἀβύσου, καὶ ηπνεῦμα θεοῦ ἐπεφέρετο ἐπάνω τοῦ ὕδατος.
En agni epoeisen o theos ton uranon kae tin gnin. I de gni in aoratos kae akataskeuastos, kae iskotos epano tis abysou, kae ipneuma theou epefereto epano tou ydatos.
Re: Phrase evolution game
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:30 am
by StrangerCoug
- Retroactively debuccalized a final /s/ that didn't become /h/ (my bad).
- Final /h/ elides and leaves behind breathy voice on the preceding vowel.
- Syllable-final /s/ assimilates to the following stop.
- Syllable-final stops cease to have an audible release.
[ẽn‿ɛˈɲɨ eˈpi.jɨ.sẽn‿o θeˈwo̤ tõn‿u.rɛˈnõ ce tɨ̃ ɲɨ̃ ‖ ɨ ðe ɲɨ ɨ̃n‿ɔˈwo.ra.to̤ ce ɔ.ka.tac̚ˈce.was.to̤ | ce ɨk̚ˈko.to̤ eˈpɛ̃.no tɨ̤ ɔˈwi.su | ke ɨp̚ˈnew.ma θeˈwu e.peˈfe.re.to eˈpɛ̃.no tu ˈi.ða.to̤]
Ἐν ἀγῇ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ τὴν γῆν. ἡ δὲ γῆ ἦν ἀόρατος καὶ ἀκατασκεύαστος, καὶ ησκότος ἐπάνω τῆς ἀβύσου, καὶ ηπνεῦμα θεοῦ ἐπεφέρετο ἐπάνω τοῦ ὕδατος.
En agni epoeisen o theos ton uranon kae tin gnin. I de gni in aoratos kae akataskeuastos, kae iskotos epano tis abysou, kae ipneuma theou epefereto epano tou ydatos.
Re: Phrase evolution game
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:53 am
by Rounin Ryuuji
- [ɨ a] merge to a low central vowel [ɐ]; nasalisation blocks this shift; some orthographic confusion results;
- [t c θ ð] > [ts ts t d], but [ð] remains as an allophone of /d/ between vowels;
- Breathy-voiced vowels merge with non-breathy-voiced counterparts;
- Back Vowel chain shift [u o ɔ] > [y u o], this is also blocked by nasalisation;
- Loss of medial nasalisation if an oral vowel follows immediately after the triggering nasal consonant, even across morpheme boundaries;
- Small orthographic changes, and a new Romanisation.
[en‿ɛˈɲɐ eˈpi.jɐ.sen‿u teˈwu tson‿y.rɛˈnõ tse tsɨ̃ ɲɨ̃ ‖ ɐ de ɲɐ ɨn‿oˈwu.ra.tu tse o.kɐ.tɐt̚ˈtse.was.tu | tse ɐk̚ˈku.tu eˈpɛ.nu tsɐ oˈwi.sy | ke ɐp̚ˈnew.mɐ teˈwy e.peˈfe.re.tsu eˈpɛ.nu tsy ˈi.ðɐ.tsu]
Ἐν ἀγῇ ἐπίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ τὴν γῆν. ἡ δὲ γῆ ἦν ἀβόρατος καὶ ἀκατασκεβαστος, καὶ ησκότος ἐπάνω τῆς ἀβύσου, καὶ ηπνεῦμα θεοῦ ἐπεφέρετο ἐπάνω τοῦ ὕδατος.
En ègni epiasen ou tewous tson urènon tsè tsyn gnyn. A de gna yn owouratous tsè akataskewastous, tsè akkoutous epènou tsas owisou, tsè ipneuma tewu epeferetsou epanou tsu idatous.
Re: Phrase evolution game
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:57 am
by StrangerCoug
- /ɐ/ changes to /ə/ in unstressed syllables and function words; nasalization once again blocks the vowel shift.
- Stressed open monophthongs become long except in function words.
- Major spelling reform:
- The Greek Orthodox Church finally gives up on polytonic and switches to monotonic.
- ⟨ς⟩ is abolished and elided from the spelling.
- /j/ is now represented and spelled ⟨ϳ⟩, encoded using U+03F3.
- /ts w/ are now consistently indicated as ⟨τ β⟩.
- The spelling of vowels is regularized: /a/ → ⟨α⟩, /ɐ/ → ⟨η⟩, /ɛ/ → ⟨αι⟩, /e/ → ⟨ε⟩, /i/ → ⟨ι⟩, /ɨ̃~ɨn/ → ⟨ην⟩, /o/ → ⟨ω⟩, /u/ → ⟨ο⟩, /y/ → ⟨υ⟩. /ə/ is exempt from respelling, and ⟨ν⟩ continues to be used to mark the preceding vowel as nasal.
[en‿ɛˈɲɐː eˈpiː.jə.sen‿u teˈwuː tson‿y.rɛˈnõː tse tsɨ̃ ɲɨ̃ː ‖ ə de ɲɐː ɨn‿oˈwuː.ra.tu tse o.kɐ.tɐt̚ˈtseː.was.tu | tse ək̚ˈkuː.tu eˈpɛː.nu tsə oˈwiː.sy | ke əp̚ˈnew.mə teˈwyː e.peˈfeː.re.tsu eˈpɛː.nu tsy ˈi.ðəː.tsu]
Εν αιγή επίϳησεν ο θεβό των υρανών τε την γην. η δε γη ην ωβόρατο τε ωκητηττεβαστο, τε ηκκότο επαίνο τη ωβίσυ, τε ηπνέβμα θεβύ επεφέρετο επαίνο τυ ίδατο.
Re: Phrase evolution game
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:38 pm
by Rounin Ryuuji
- Loss of nasalisation, ejecting [m] into the coda of monosyllables, or without trace elsewhere;
- [s ts] > [ɕ cɕ] after [y]
- Major vowel mergers [a ɐ] > [ɐ̞], [ɛ e] > [e̞], [ə o] > [o̞], [i ɨ] > [i], [u y] > [ʉ], but preservation of [y] as an allophone after palatals;
- Elision of [w] between vowels; if a long vowel follows directly after a short, quantitative metathesis occurs
- Remaining [ts] > [s];
- No orthographic changes occur, however a new Romanisation is devised, mostly for teaching students before they're familiar with the Greek Alphabet and its now very muddied spellings.
[e̞n‿e̞ˈɲɐ̞ː e̞ˈpiː.jo̞.se̞n‿ʉ teːʉ so̞n‿ʉ.re̞ˈno̞ː se̞ sim ɲiːm ‖ o̞ de̞ ɲɐ̞ː in‿'o̞ːʉ.rɐ̞.tʉ se̞ o̞.kɐ.tɐ̞sˈse͉ːɐ̞s.tʉ | se o̞k̚ˈkʉː.tʉ e̞ˈpe̞ː.nʉ so̞ 'o̞ːi.ɕy | ke̞ o̞p̚ˈne͉w.mo̞ te̞ːʉ e̞.pe̞ˈfe͉ː.re͉.sʉ e̞ˈpe̞ː.nʉ cɕy ˈi.ðo̞ː.sʉ]
Εν αιγή επίϳησεν ο θεβό των υρανών τε την γην. η δε γη ην ωβόρατο τε ωκητηττεβαστο, τε ηκκότο επαίνο τη ωβίσυ, τε ηπνέβμα θεβύ επεφέρετο επαίνο τυ ίδατο.
En enâ epîosen u têu son urenô se sim gnîm. O de gnâ in ôuratu se okatassêastu, se okkûtu epênu so ôischu, ke opnewmo têu epefêresu epênu tschu idôsu.
Re: Phrase evolution game
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:59 pm
by Otto Kretschmer
Another a posteriori. After this someone should find something Khoisan or Bantu with clicks
\Opnēs hemones deknotāti jowezikʷe louðeroi parēskʷe gnāskontor, ratijones komskijentijāskʷe partikapes sont, kʷois enter se komkordijās studēōd agontinom est.
['Opne:s he'mones dekno'ta:ti jowe'zikʷe lou'deroi pa're:skʷe gna:s'kontor, rati'jones komskije'ntija:skʷe parti'kapes sont, kʷois enter se kom'kordija:s stu'dēo:d agon'tinom est]
1. Relocation of a group of Italic speakers to the Sinai. They come under the influence of Semiic speakers there
2. -kwe moves before the noun
3. h > ɣ
4. om >on under Semitic influence
5. "Partikapes" changes to "donates" (are given)
\Opnēs hemones deknotāti kwe jowezi louðeroi kwe parēs gnāskontor, ratijonem kwe komskijentijām donates sont, kʷois enter se komkordijās studēōd agontinon est.
['Opne:s ɣe'mones dekno'ta:ti kwe jowe'zi lou'deroi kwe pa're:s gna:s'kontor, rati'jonem kwe komskije'ntija:m do'nates sont, kʷois enter se kom'kordija:s stu'dēo:d agon'tinon est]
Wait and do a few rounds with Greek
Re: Phrase evolution game
Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:34 am
by bradrn
Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:38 pm
[e̞n‿e̞ˈɲɐ̞ː e̞ˈpiː.jo̞.se̞n‿ʉ teːʉ so̞n‿ʉ.re̞ˈno̞ː se̞ sim ɲiːm ‖ o̞ de̞ ɲɐ̞ː in‿'o̞ːʉ.rɐ̞.tʉ se̞ o̞.kɐ.tɐ̞sˈse͉ːɐ̞s.tʉ | se o̞k̚ˈkʉː.tʉ e̞ˈpe̞ː.nʉ so̞ 'o̞ːi.ɕy | ke̞ o̞p̚ˈne͉w.mo̞ te̞ːʉ e̞.pe̞ˈfe͉ː.re͉.sʉ e̞ˈpe̞ː.nʉ cɕy ˈi.ðo̞ː.sʉ]
What is [e͉] supposed to be? I can’t find the diacritic ◌͉ anywhere.
Otto Kretschmer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:59 pm
Another a posteriori. After this someone should find something Khoisan or Bantu with clicks
We already did Tsʼixa (Khoisan). Turns out people don’t like clicks in their sound changes; they all disappeared after a few rounds. I vote for something Australian, preferably non–Pama-Nyungan with nice long words. (Bininj Gun-Wok? Murrinhpatha? Nyulnyul?)
Re: Phrase evolution game
Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:41 am
by Otto Kretschmer
bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:34 am
Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:38 pm
[e̞n‿e̞ˈɲɐ̞ː e̞ˈpiː.jo̞.se̞n‿ʉ teːʉ so̞n‿ʉ.re̞ˈno̞ː se̞ sim ɲiːm ‖ o̞ de̞ ɲɐ̞ː in‿'o̞ːʉ.rɐ̞.tʉ se̞ o̞.kɐ.tɐ̞sˈse͉ːɐ̞s.tʉ | se o̞k̚ˈkʉː.tʉ e̞ˈpe̞ː.nʉ so̞ 'o̞ːi.ɕy | ke̞ o̞p̚ˈne͉w.mo̞ te̞ːʉ e̞.pe̞ˈfe͉ː.re͉.sʉ e̞ˈpe̞ː.nʉ cɕy ˈi.ðo̞ː.sʉ]
What is [e͉] supposed to be? I can’t find the diacritic ◌͉ anywhere.
Otto Kretschmer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:59 pm
Another a posteriori. After this someone should find something Khoisan or Bantu with clicks
We already did Tsʼixa (Khoisan). Turns out people don’t like clicks in their sound changes; they all disappeared after a few rounds. I vote for something Australian, preferably non–Pama-Nyungan with nice long words. (Bininj Gun-Wok? Murrinhpatha? Nyulnyul?)
I vote for Korean
Re: Phrase evolution game
Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:43 am
by bradrn
Korean actually would be quite interesting, if only we could figure out exactly how to transcribe the emphatic consonants phonetically.
Re: Phrase evolution game
Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:49 am
by Rounin Ryuuji
bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:34 am
Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:38 pm
[e̞n‿e̞ˈɲɐ̞ː e̞ˈpiː.jo̞.se̞n‿ʉ teːʉ so̞n‿ʉ.re̞ˈno̞ː se̞ sim ɲiːm ‖ o̞ de̞ ɲɐ̞ː in‿'o̞ːʉ.rɐ̞.tʉ se̞ o̞.kɐ.tɐ̞sˈse͉ːɐ̞s.tʉ | se o̞k̚ˈkʉː.tʉ e̞ˈpe̞ː.nʉ so̞ 'o̞ːi.ɕy | ke̞ o̞p̚ˈne͉w.mo̞ te̞ːʉ e̞.pe̞ˈfe͉ː.re͉.sʉ e̞ˈpe̞ː.nʉ cɕy ˈi.ðo̞ː.sʉ]
What is [e͉] supposed to be? I can’t find the diacritic ◌͉ anywhere.
It's a typographical error. It should be [e̞].
Re: Phrase evolution game
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:13 am
by Neonnaut
p͈aˈɾamgwa ˈhɛnɲimi s͈ʌ̹ˈɾo çiˈmi ˈt͈ʌ̹ ˈs͈eːdago t͈aˈtʰugo iˈsɯl tɛ |
ˈhan naˈgɯnega taˈtɯtʰan ˈweːtʰuɾɯɭ ˈip͈ko ˈk͈əːɾʌ̹ wa ˈsɯmɲida ||
k͈ɯˈdɯɾɯn nuˈgudɯnɟi naˈgɯnewi ˈøːtʰuɾɯɭ ˈmʌ̹nɟʌ̹ ˈp͈ʌ̹t͈kinɯn ɲiga çiˈmi ˈt͈ʌ̹ ˈs͈eːdago haˈgiro ˈk͈jʌ̹ɭcʌ̹ŋhɛsɯmɲida ||
The North Wind and the Sun were disputing which was the stronger, when a traveller came along wrapped in a warm cloak. They agreed that the one who first succeeded in making the traveller take his cloak off should be considered stronger than the other.
Re: Phrase evolution game
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:29 am
by bradrn
Neonnaut wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:13 am
p͈aˈɾamgwa ˈhɛnɲimi s͈ʌ̹ˈɾo çiˈmi ˈt͈ʌ̹ ˈs͈eːdago t͈aˈtʰugo iˈsɯl tɛ |
ˈhan naˈgɯnega taˈtɯtʰan ˈweːtʰuɾɯɭ ˈip͈ko ˈk͈əːɾʌ̹ wa ˈsɯmɲida ||
k͈ɯˈdɯɾɯn nuˈgudɯnɟi naˈgɯnewi ˈøːtʰuɾɯɭ ˈmʌ̹nɟʌ̹ ˈp͈ʌ̹t͈kinɯn ɲiga çiˈmi ˈt͈ʌ̹ ˈs͈eːdago haˈgiro ˈk͈jʌ̹ɭcʌ̹ŋhɛsɯmɲida ||
Could we have a gloss please?
- Stop transphonologisation onto following vowel: aspirated and plain stops trigger breathy voice, aspirated and emphatic stops and [s͈] trigger high tone (per Creyeditor)
- ø → we, ɛ e → e̞
- {k,ɡ} → {k,ɡ}w / u _
- C₁VC₁ → C₁ː, VːC → VCː, ɾː → rː
[pá̤ˈɾàmɡwà ˈhè̞nɲìmì sʌ̹́ˈɾò çìˈmì ˈtʌ̹̤́ ˈsé̞dːàɡò ˈtːṳ́ɡwò ìˈsɯ̀l te̞̤ | ˈhàn nàˈɡɯ̀nèɡà ˈtːɯ̤tá̤n ˈwè̞tːṳ́ɾɯ̀ɭ ˈìpko̤ ˈkə̤́rːʌ̹̀ wà ˈsɯ̀mɲìdà ‖ kɯ̤́ˈdɯ̀ɾɯ̀n nùˈɡwùdɯ̀nɟì nàˈɡɯ̀nè̞wì ˈwè̞tːṳ́ɾɯ̀ɭ ˈmʌ̹̀nɟʌ̹̀ ˈpʌ̹̤́tki̤nɯ̀n ɲìɡà çìˈmì ˈtʌ̹̤́ ˈsé̞dːàɡò hàˈɡìrò ˈkjʌ̹̀ɭcʌ̹̤̀ŋhè̞sɯ̀mɲìdà]
Re: Phrase evolution game
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:24 am
by Rounin Ryuuji
- /Nb Nd Nɟ Ng/ > /mm nn ɲɲ ŋŋ/
- Other coda nasals disappear, shifting preceding vowels to long nasal; historical /m/ in these contexts tends to result in some backing or rounding additionally; a subsequent nasal of the same manner of articulation blocks loss in the coda, but nasalisation still occurs;
- Initial geminates merge to voiceless, voicless geminates become aspirated, voiced geminates devoice; initial geminates then degeminate; sequences of two voiceless stops become aspirate geminates, with assimilation to the last consonant in the sequence
- [c kj] > [cɕ]; [ç] > [ɕ]; non-geminate [ɲ] > [ʑ]
- Creation of a Romanisation scheme.
[pá̤ˈɾà̰ŋ.ŋwà ˈhè̞̰ː.ʑì.mì sʌ̹́ˈɾò ɕìˈmì ˈtʌ̹̤́ ˈsé̞t.tàɡò ˈtʰṳ́ɡwò ìˈsɯ̀l te̞̤ | ˈhà̰ː nàˈɡɯ̀nèɡà ˈtʰɯ̤tá̤̰ː ˈwè̞tʰ.tʰṳ́.ɾɯ̀ɭ ˈìkʰ.kʰo̤ ˈkə̤́r.rʌ̹̀ wà ˈsùː.ʑì.dà ‖ kɯ̤́ˈdɯ̀ɾɯ̰̀ː nùˈɡwùdɯ̰̀ɲɲì nàˈɡɯ̀.nè̞.wì ˈwè̞tʰ.tʰṳ́.ɾɯ̀ɭ ˈmʌ̹̰̀ɲ.ɲʌ̹̀ ˈpʌ̹̤́kʰ.kʰi̤nɯ̰̀ː ʑì.ɡà ɕìˈmì ˈtʌ̹̤́ ˈsé̞t.tà.ɡò hàˈɡì.rò ˈcɕʌ̹̀ɭ.cɕʌ̹̤̰̀ː.hè̞.sùː.ʑì.dà]
Páranggua hēnzhimi séoro shimi téo séttago thúgwo iseul te, hān nageunega theutá wetthúreul ikkho kóereo wà sūzhida. Keu deurēun nugudeuggni nageunewi wetthúreul meoggneo péokkhinēun zhiga shimi téo séttago hagiro cheolchēonhesūzhida.
High-pitched short syllables are marked with an acute (á), low-pitched long vowels with a macron (ā), high-pitched long vowels (not present in sample) with a circumflex (â), low-pitched short syllables are unmarked. Vowels [a e ʌ ɯ i o ə u] represented
a e eo eu i o oe u.
Re: Phrase evolution game
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:12 am
by Neonnaut
wind-and sun-NOM with.each.other strength-NOM more to.count argue to.be time/hour
balamgwa haesnim-i seolo him-i deo sedago datugo iss-eul ttae,
바람과 햇님이 서로 힘이 더 세다고 다투고 있을 때
one stranger warm cloak wear walk come.INDICATIVE.PAST
han nageunega ttatteushan oetuleul ibgo geol-eo wassseubnida.
한 나그네가 따뜻한 외투를 입고 걸어 왔습니다
they-TOPIC anyone stranger-GEN cloak first strip.PRESENT person strength-NOM more to.count ought decide.INDICATIVE.PAST
geudeul-eun nugudeunji nageune-ui oetuleul meonjeo beosgineun iga him-i deo sedago hagilo gyeoljeonghaessseubnida.
그들은 누구든지 나그네의 외투를 먼저 벗기는 이가 힘이 더 세다고 하기로 결정했습니다.
I tried to add the gloss myself, I'm unsure about <iss-eul> it uses future tense? and how <hagilo> ('ought') is formed.
Re: Phrase evolution game
Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:24 am
by bradrn
(0. Simplify transcription by dropping low tone markers and ⟨.⟩ and converting ◌̰ to ◌̃; henceforth all unmarked vowels have low tone)
- CʰCʰ → CCʰ
- Unaspirated ungeminated stops voice
- e̞ a ʌ̹ → e ɛ ɑ
- CV{l,ɭ,ɾ}V → CəɭVɻV; other CV{l,ɭ,ɾ} → CəɭV
[pəɭɛ̤́ˈɻɛ̃ŋŋwɛ ˈhẽːʑimi səɭɑ́ˈɻo ɕiˈmi ˈdɑ̤́ ˈséttɛɡo ˈtʰṳ́ɡwo iˈsəɭɯ de̤ | ˈhɛ̃ː nɛˈɡɯneɡɛ ˈtʰɯ̤dɛ̤̃́ː ˈwettʰəɭṳ́ɻɯ ˈikkʰo̤ ˈkə̤́rrɑ wɛ ˈsuːʑidɛ ‖ kɯ̤́dəˈɭɯɻɯ̃ː nuˈɡwudɯ̃ɲɲi nɛˈɡɯnewi ˈwettʰəɭṳ́ɻɯ ˈmɑ̃ɲɲɑ ˈpɑ̤́kkʰi̤nɯ̃ː ʑiɡɛ ɕiˈmi ˈdɑ̤́ ˈséttɛɡo hɛˈɡiro cɕəˈɭɑcɕɑ̤̃ːhesuːʑidɛ]
Pláeraennguae hēnzhimi slaaro shimi dá séttaego thúgwo isleu de, hāen naegeunegae theudâe wetthlúreu ikkho kéorra wae sūzhidae. Kéudleurēun nugwudeuggni naegeunewi wetthlúreu maggna pákkhinēun zhigae shimi dá séttaego haegiřo chlachānhesūzhidae.
wind-and sun-NOM with.each.other strength-NOM more to.count argue to.be time/hour, one stranger warm cloak wear walk come.IND.PST. they-TOP anyone stranger-GEN cloak first strip.PRS person strength-NOM more to.count ought decide.IND.PST
Re: Phrase evolution game
Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:41 am
by Rounin Ryuuji
- [ə] tends to assimilate to the articulation of the nearest vowel sound;
- [e] merges with [i], [ɑ] becomes [a], [u ɯ] merge to [ʉ]; nasalisation blocks these changes, but [ẽ] merges with [ɛ̃]; breathy-voicing is lost;
- Terminal consonants geminate across morpheme boundaries word-internally;
- Nasalisation is lost before non-nasal consonants; degemination of nasal consonants;
- Slight adjustments to the Romanisation.
[pɛɭˈɭɛ́ɻɛ̃ŋwɛ ˈhɛːʑimi saɭáˈɻo ɕiˈmi ˈdá ˈsíttɛɡo ˈtʰʉ́ɡwo iˈsʉɭʉ di | ˈhɛː nɛˈɡʉniɡɛ ˈtʰʉdɛ́ː ˈwettʰíɭʉ́ɻʉ ˈikkʰo ˈkárra wɛ ˈsʉːʑidɛ ‖ kʉ́dʉ́ˈɭʉɻʉː nʉˈɡwʉdʉ̃ɲi nɛˈɡʉnewi ˈwettʰiɭʉ́ɻʉ ˈmãɲa ˈpákkʰinʉː ʑiɡɛ ɕiˈmi ˈdá ˈsíttɛɡo hɛˈɡiro cɕaˈɭacɕaːhisʉːʑidɛ]
Pelérẽngue hējimi saláro shimi dá síttego túguo isulu di, hē negunige tudê wetthiluru ikkho garra we sūjide. Kudulurū nugudũgni ne gunewi wetthiluru mãgna pákkhinū jige shimi dá síttego hegiro shalachāhisujide.
wind-and sun-NOM with.each.other strength-NOM more to.count argue to.be time/hour, one stranger warm cloak wear walk come.IND.PST. they-TOP anyone stranger-GEN cloak first strip.PRS person strength-NOM more to.count ought decide.IND.PST