Zompist Bboard Again

So I just started a feud with a Frenchman on Facebook over English usage. Priez pour moi.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 10:32 am So I just started a feud with a Frenchman on Facebook over English usage. Priez pour moi.

I want to know more about this.

What, if any, uses of paper do you think will survive in the long term?

Myself, one way in which I still use paper, and which I wouldn't want to miss although I could, of course, replace it, is using paper for shopping lists. Things might, of course, be different if you have a specific disability or medical condition. But if you haven't, than IMO nothing on your phone could beat a small piece of paper in your pocket in terms of accessibility and ease of use once you're actually in the supermarket.

I think it will survive as a medium for writing, and in its softer and more absorbent forms for wiping and cleaning.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 10:32 am So I just started a feud with a Frenchman on Facebook over English usage. Priez pour moi.

The entire country is at about the worst spot on the Dunning-Kruger curve, when it comes to English. Good luck.

Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 10:10 am What, if any, uses of paper do you think will survive in the long term?

Myself, one way in which I still use paper, and which I wouldn't want to miss although I could, of course, replace it, is using paper for shopping lists. Things might, of course, be different if you have a specific disability or medical condition. But if you haven't, than IMO nothing on your phone could beat a small piece of paper in your pocket in terms of accessibility and ease of use once you're actually in the supermarket.

We use WhatsApp a lot for shopping lists, surprisingly.

I still find paper irreplaceable for note-taking.
I've known some people to record meetings and then use dictation software instead. Apparently feed the transcript to ChatGPT for synthesis. To each their own I suppose.

Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 10:10 am What, if any, uses of paper do you think will survive in the long term?

My wife and I use a lot of paper for notes. That includes shopping lists, to-do lists, meeting notes, and scribbled notes on where things are in Minecraft.

I prefer to draw on paper. I have more control over the line, both placement and thickness. But then I usually finish the art in Photoshop.

I like books on paper. And it isn't just me: 62% of my book sales are paper (30,000 vs. 18,000).

I used to keep a journal on paper, but I got out of the habit— except for travel journals.

I do all my mathematics workings on paper.

Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 10:10 amBut if you haven't, than IMO nothing on your phone could beat a small piece of paper in your pocket in terms of accessibility and ease of use once you're actually in the supermarket.

I dunno, having to have a pen as well to mark things off, not to speak of finagling something to brace against, seems to be a bit of a notable downside. Whereas I can use an app on my phone specialised for to-do lists to just tap a checkbutton. I certainly can't see myself switching to a paper shopping list for taking to the shops.

I've found it's very hard to make paper crafts like origami with a phone

Thank you, everyone, interesting thoughts!

alice: Oops, completely forgot about that use of paper. Here I was thinking about paper factories possibly closing down, and I didn't think of one of the most essential uses for their products!

zompist: All good points, but I wonder how this compares to the younger generation.

KatTheDragon: Good point. I should correct what I said to "when your shopping list is fairly short", so you can keep track of what you already bought inside your head.

Ares Land wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 2:39 pm

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 10:32 am So I just started a feud with a Frenchman on Facebook over English usage. Priez pour moi.

The entire country is at about the worst spot on the Dunning-Kruger curve, when it comes to English. Good luck.

I'm a bit surprised to hear that. I would have thought France would be full of people who take pride in not knowing anything about English.

Unrelated random thought: it's a bit annoying that, when there's a fly sitting somewhere on my computer's screen, I can't just make it fly away by moving the mouse cursor to where it's sitting.

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 5:45 am I'm a bit surprised to hear that. I would have thought France would be full of people who take pride in not knowing anything about English.

We have those too, but that might be more typical of older generations.

Ares Land wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:11 am

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 5:45 am I'm a bit surprised to hear that. I would have thought France would be full of people who take pride in not knowing anything about English.

We have those too, but that might be more typical of older generations.

I've heard all the horror stories about how the French don't talk English and prefer to leave you hanging if you don't speak French, but when I travelled there last time two years ago, I had a rather different experience with young people - they readily spoke English and even switched to English on their own accord when they noted that I had difficulties to express myself in French (it was even a bit annoying, as I actually wanted to practise my French). And that was the case even in non-urban, non-touristy parts of the country.

hwhatting wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:04 am […] when I travelled there last time two years ago, I had a rather different experience with young people - they readily spoke English and even switched to English on their own accord when they noted that I had difficulties to express myself in French (it was even a bit annoying, as I actually wanted to practise my French). And that was the case even in non-urban, non-touristy parts of the country.

This is exactly what I’ve heard too.

(I’ve been thinking a lot about this, actually, since there’s a distant chance I’ll end up in Paris next year.)

Surprisingly, I frightened them off. (Or more likely they decided I was beneath contempt. Either way, counting it as a victory.)

Now I'm chatting with a German friend about Mexican food in Germany. In a discussion of the chain restaurant O'Tacos (which, what the actual fuck, France?), some rando mentioned that "Tacos" is used generically in Germany for Mexican food in general. I asked my best German friend about this and he was like, "Häh? Nö." All he could figure the poster might be talking about is a place in Bonn called "Tacos Bonn", which he doesn't remember actually having tacos on the menu when he last went there. Either his memory is faulty or they've updated their menu, since they're there now (crispy tacos, but tacos all the same)--along with garlic bread, "flapjacks", "farmhouse potatoes", and whatever the hell else the owners decided tourists might want. (In Düsseldorf we found somewhere which has soft tacos, and honestly a pretty decent-looking menu overall. Whether they get the flavours right is an entirely different question, of course.)

On the whole, Europe seems more on board with quesadillas and burritos than tacos. We even found evidence that the sushirrito has reached those fair shores, albeit in a much blander form.

I have heard similar things about non-native English-speakers in many places - that even if you want to practice their native language with them, they will switch to English at the slightest indication of your being a non-native in their native language, since they want to practice their English with you.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 11:33 am On the whole, Europe seems more on board with quesadillas and burritos than tacos.

It's just one data point, but I am European, and I do generally prefer quesadillas and burritos to tacos. I'm not sure I really understand the difference between soft tacos and burritos, though. And I'm a bit annoyed that I haven't had an opportunity to eat tamales yet. From what I've read about them, they sound interesting.

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 12:11 pmI'm not sure I really understand the difference between soft tacos and burritos, though.

Basically, the type of tortilla. For soft tacos, the tortillas are smaller and may be maize (traditional in Mexico) or flour (Tex-Mex). Burritos always use flour tortillas and they have to be larger in order to wrap the ingredients completely. (A burrito can be considered a type of "wrap", which covers a much wider assortment of fillings and bread wrappers.) Burritos always arrive fully wrapped whereas soft tacos may be "build your own"--you'll be served a dish of seasoned meat or vegetables along with some garnishes (classically chopped raw onions and cilantro) and a stack of tortillas, which you will proceed to fill and fold yourself. Fajitas are a special case of this still of presentation.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 12:31 pm

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 12:11 pmI'm not sure I really understand the difference between soft tacos and burritos, though.

Basically, the type of tortilla. For soft tacos, the tortillas are smaller and may be maize (traditional in Mexico) or flour (Tex-Mex). Burritos always use flour tortillas and they have to be larger in order to wrap the ingredients completely. (A burrito can be considered a type of "wrap", which covers a much wider assortment of fillings and bread wrappers.) Burritos always arrive fully wrapped whereas soft tacos may be "build your own"--you'll be served a dish of seasoned meat or vegetables along with some garnishes (classically chopped raw onions and cilantro) and a stack of tortillas, which you will proceed to fill and fold yourself. Fajitas are a special case of this still of presentation.

This. I should also note that very often the large flour tortillas used for making burritos are steamed prior to ingredients being put in it, so it will stick to itself and help keep in their contents.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 1:41 pmI should also note that very often the large flour tortillas used for making burritos are steamed prior to ingredients being put in it, so it will stick to itself and help keep in their contents.

Tortillas for soft tacos are often steamed just before serving as well (and typically kept in a small covered basket or tortilla warmer to retain heat until needed). I learned the technique of heating them up directly on a gas burner from my late husband, who I believe learned it from his Californio cousins.