Zompist Bboard Again

I confirm that you'll get by perfectly fine with English in France these days.
(I wonder how old the stereotypes are... There were still some residual anti-English sentiment in my parents' generation; but the key factor is that people just never really learned English back then.)

I was pretty surprised, in Italy or Greece, to have people switch to flawless French as soon as they heard a hint of the accent.

Mexican food never really became popular in France; that's why the word 'tacos' could be repurposed for something else entirely.
"French tacos" (for lack of a better name) are flour tortillas wrapped around an unholy quantity of meat, fries and cheese. That kind of tacos is definitely a generational thing -- kids love them but I think past 30 most everyone finds the idea revolting.

We do have actual Mexican restaurants, where you can get the real deal. They're just a bit more confidential.

Ares Land wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 3:46 pm an unholy quantity of meat, fries and cheese.

Emphasis mine. Fries in tacos? Wut?

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 4:10 pm

Ares Land wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 3:46 pm an unholy quantity of meat, fries and cheese.

Emphasis mine. Fries in tacos? Wut?

They were imitating american cuisine.

foxcatdog wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:12 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 4:10 pm

Ares Land wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 3:46 pm an unholy quantity of meat, fries and cheese.

Emphasis mine. Fries in tacos? Wut?

They were imitating american cuisine.

I think ‘cuisine’ may not be quite the right word in cases like these…

bradrn wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:29 pm

foxcatdog wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:12 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 4:10 pm

Emphasis mine. Fries in tacos? Wut?

They were imitating american cuisine.

I think ‘cuisine’ may not be quite the right word in cases like these…

TBH I figured it was based on something from the USA. We have a few Mexican places that add fries to certain burritos. It's pretty tasty, but not an everyday meal.

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 5:45 am KatTheDragon: Good point. I should correct what I said to "when your shopping list is fairly short", so you can keep track of what you already bought inside your head.

Can you not simply consult your trolley/basket? Either way, you underestimate the power of ADHD to make having to consult two different sources of complementary information a quick path to failure. A direct indicator of what I have yet to buy is far more helpful for me.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 11:33 am All he could figure the poster might be talking about is a place in Bonn called "Tacos Bonn", which he doesn't remember actually having tacos on the menu when he last went there. Either his memory is faulty or they've updated their menu, since they're there now (crispy tacos, but tacos all the same)--along with garlic bread, "flapjacks", "farmhouse potatoes", and whatever the hell else the owners decided tourists might want.

I know that place, but the last time I was there is about 20 years ago - I don't remember if they were called "Tacos" back then, but there has been a Mexican place in that spot since at least 2000. Somehow it (or the other Mexican places in Bonn) never made it on my wife's and my list of favourite places to eat.

In Düsseldorf we found somewhere which has soft tacos, and honestly a pretty decent-looking menu overall. Whether they get the flavours right is an entirely different question, of course.

Only to be expected; Düsseldorf is overall more expensive and posher, but due to the richer clientele, it also offers a much wider and better range of food.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 12:31 pm

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 12:11 pmI'm not sure I really understand the difference between soft tacos and burritos, though.

Basically, the type of tortilla. For soft tacos, the tortillas are smaller and may be maize (traditional in Mexico) or flour (Tex-Mex). Burritos always use flour tortillas and they have to be larger in order to wrap the ingredients completely. (A burrito can be considered a type of "wrap", which covers a much wider assortment of fillings and bread wrappers.) Burritos always arrive fully wrapped whereas soft tacos may be "build your own"--you'll be served a dish of seasoned meat or vegetables along with some garnishes (classically chopped raw onions and cilantro) and a stack of tortillas, which you will proceed to fill and fold yourself. Fajitas are a special case of this still of presentation.

Thank you!

foxcatdog wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:12 pm
They were imitating american cuisine.

linguistcat wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:30 pm TBH I figured it was based on something from the USA. We have a few Mexican places that add fries to certain burritos. It's pretty tasty, but not an everyday meal.

I don't know about that. Putting fries in sandwiches is common here when you're trying to make a junk food calorie bomb. They often put fries in kebab sandwiches (Gyros, sort of. For the Germans: less choice in vegetable fillings, different sauces).

FWIW in some part of France un américain is half a baguette filled with burger patties, fries, and loads of sauce. Why do they call these americans? Was it some dude's idea of a burger before we imported burgers? Who knows?

Ares Land wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 8:08 am

foxcatdog wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:12 pm
They were imitating american cuisine.

linguistcat wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:30 pm TBH I figured it was based on something from the USA. We have a few Mexican places that add fries to certain burritos. It's pretty tasty, but not an everyday meal.

I don't know about that. Putting fries in sandwiches is common here when you're trying to make a junk food calorie bomb. They often put fries in kebab sandwiches (Gyros, sort of. For the Germans: less choice in vegetable fillings, different sauces).

FWIW in some part of France un américain is half a baguette filled with burger patties, fries, and loads of sauce. Why do they call these americans? Was it some dude's idea of a burger before we imported burgers? Who knows?

These are all things that are quite foreign to me as an American. I have never encountered fries in a sandwich or gyro here in the US myself. It seems like something a foreigner who had never been in the US or had actual American food would dream up Americans as eating.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 9:09 amIt seems like something a foreigner who had never been in the US or had actual American food would dream up Americans as eating.

Perhaps the américain started out as a conworlding exercise about how Americans would eat baguettes if Americans would eat baguettes?

Ares Land wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 8:08 amI don't know about that. Putting fries in sandwiches is common here when you're trying to make a junk food calorie bomb. They often put fries in kebab sandwiches (Gyros, sort of. For the Germans: less choice in vegetable fillings, different sauces).

Yeah, my first impression was "This is the unholy spawn of a quesadilla and a mitraillette." The list of fillings are hilarious. It's like they asked "What's everything we have in the kitchen that seems vaguely American? Chicken nuggets? Hash browns? Bacon? Yeah, throw all that shit in, too." (It may seem surprising, given our boundless affection for bacon in the USA, but you rarely, if ever, see it as an ingredient in Mexican or Tex-Mex food.)

Pace Travis, fries in a wrap aren't unheard of in the USA. I've been to more than one gyro/shawarma place where the fries are wrapped into the sandwich with the meat and fixings. That's definitely not the norm here, though, and I've never seen it at Mexican places, where potatoes (if they appear at all) tend to be pan fried.

For an idea of what the typical Mexican taqueria in the USA is like, here's the menu for my regular joint, Edgewater Tacos. (Apologies for the poor quality of the images; the version on their website is actually worse.)

https://www.zmenu.com/edgewater-tacos-c ... line-menu/

This is a place owned and operated by Mexican immigrants but located in a majority non-Mexican neighbourhood on the North Side. It's not as Americanised as what you'll see, say, in Lakeview (near Wrigley Stadium), but it's more modified toward white people's tastes than, say, most of the restaurants in the North Clark barrio near me let alone larger Mexican neighbourhoods like La Villita on the South Side.

Some things to notice:

1. Fries are offered as a side but they don't come with any of the dishes--not even the sandwiches--and they sure as hell aren't incorporated into any of them. The default sides are (Mexican refried) beans and rice. These are rolled into burritos and chimichangas rather than being served alongside them.
2. No burgers, hotdogs, chicken nuggets, etc. If that's the kind of food you wanted, you'd be ordering from someplace different. The sausage is strictly Mexican-style (i.e. spiced loose meat, not what Brits would call "sausages").
3. Quesadillas are on the menu, but they're much less customisable than the other offerings. You have a choice of meat with them and that's it.
4. You have a choice of soft maize, soft flour, or crispy maize tortillas for the tacos (in that order--soft maize is the default; IME they will ask you "Corn or flour?" but if you want crispy you need to make that explicit yourself).
5. Bacon is available as an extra topping on everything for an upcharge. Nothing comes with it as a default (which is different than what you'd see at an American-style sandwich shop or burger joint).

Raphael wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:30 am

Travis B. wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 9:09 amIt seems like something a foreigner who had never been in the US or had actual American food would dream up Americans as eating.

Perhaps the américain started out as a conworlding exercise about how Americans would eat baguettes if Americans would eat baguettes?

The actual American kind of sandwich made with baguettes is called a sub (short for submarine sandwich), which is also known in parts of the US as a hoagie, a grinder, or a hero. And these are normally made with a variety of different kinds of meat (including deli meats, grilled meat,
meatballs, etc.), vegetables, and cheese, but not typically with fries, and can be made cold or hot.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:30 am For an idea of what the typical Mexican taqueria in the USA is like, here's the menu for my regular joint, Edgewater Tacos. (Apologies for the poor quality of the images; the version on their website is actually worse.)

https://www.zmenu.com/edgewater-tacos-c ... line-menu/

This is a place owned and operated by Mexican immigrants but located in a majority non-Mexican neighbourhood on the North Side. It's not as Americanised as what you'll see, say, in Lakeview (near Wrigley Stadium), but it's more modified toward white people's tastes than, say, most of the restaurants in the North Clark barrio near me let alone larger Mexican neighbourhoods like La Villita on the South Side.

Some things to notice:

1. Fries are offered as a side but they don't come with any of the dishes--not even the sandwiches--and they sure as hell aren't incorporated into any of them. The default sides are (Mexican refried) beans and rice. These are rolled into burritos and chimichangas rather than being served alongside them.
2. No burgers, hotdogs, chicken nuggets, etc. If that's the kind of food you wanted, you'd be ordering from someplace different. The sausage is strictly Mexican-style (i.e. spiced loose meat, not what Brits would call "sausages").
3. Quesadillas are on the menu, but they're much less customisable than the other offerings. You have a choice of meat with them and that's it.
4. You have a choice of soft maize, soft flour, or crispy maize tortillas for the tacos (in that order--soft maize is the default; IME they will ask you "Corn or flour?" but if you want crispy you need to make that explicit yourself).
5. Bacon is available as an extra topping on everything for an upcharge. Nothing comes with it as a default (which is different than what you'd see at an American-style sandwich shop or burger joint).

I would say the same about the local taco trucks, Taqueria Doblado and Gabriel's Taqueria. Fries, burgers, hot dogs, chicken nuggets, etc. are not available. (I suppose if you really want a burger you could settle for a torta.) I have not seen an option for crispy maize tortillas (I always order (soft, but I need not have to specify it) corn for tacos, and burritos are always flour, of course, mind you). I have not seen any option for bacon on their menus at either place, nor would I think of asking for them.

I'm a little confused here. Is it being contended that there is something unnatural about the concept of a chip butty?

It is kinda carbs on carbs . Definitely not as elegant as naan bread on rice either.

Richard W wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 4:09 pm I'm a little confused here. Is it being contended that there is something unnatural about the concept of a chip butty?

This is the first time I have learnt of such things, and while the British may eat them, I have never heard of Americans eating them.

foxcatdog wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 8:03 pm It is kinda carbs on carbs .

That's also a Russian thing, but they do that with bread - they even have bread with dough / pastry based meals, like pancakes or pirozhki.

It's that time of the year again, when I ask myself: Where have all the spiders gone?

Where I live, until 2015, late August and early September were the height of the European garden spider season. You could see big, fat European garden spiders sitting in their webs everywhere. A lot of people were uncomfortable about that, and I generally tried to stay away from them, too. (Their bite is supposedly about as serious as a bee sting.)

Then, in 2016, there were suddenly a lot fewer European garden spiders around here. And they apparently never recovered to their previous levels. I can only assume that this is a symptom of some serious ecological damage.

Many people, myself included, are creeped out by spiders. But in this context, since 2016 I've been creeped out by a lack of spiders.

Raphael wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 10:06 am It's that time of the year again, when I ask myself: Where have all the spiders gone?

I hadn't noticed, but it turns out they are Indeed disappearing

That is pretty scary. The few sources I found mention that researchers are still looking for the cause, but it seems to be the general lack of insectes (there are a lot less insects around than there used to...)