Zompist Bboard Again

/p t̪ t c k/ p th t c k
/b d̪ d ɟ ɡ/ b dh d j g
/mb nd̪ nd ɲɟ ŋɡ/ mb ndh nd ñj ŋg
/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ñ ŋ
/r ɽ (ɽ̊)/ r z ż
/ð/ ð
/w l j/ v l y

There's vowel harmony - a word contains vowels from only one of the two following sets and/or the neutral vowels from the third set.
1. /ɪ ɛ ɔ ʊ/ ì è ò ù
2. /i e u o/ i e u o
3. /a ə/ a à

There are 2 tones + phonemic downstep (/áꜜá/ [áā], /àꜜá/ [àā], /àꜜà/ [āá])
/á à/ á/ǎ a/à + VʼV
There are also some toneless vowels - these are very short and predictable.

/múɽún máꜜá ŋáró ŋɡɛ̀ || ŋɡɛ̀ ŋɡát̪íꜜðó ŋɡɔ̀r máŋəɽ mɛ̀ɲ || ŋɡɛ̀ ŋɡɪ̀ccɔ̀ ŋɡɪɽə́ðɪ̀ ɽ ŋɡɛ̀ ŋɡáꜜllɔ̀ ɡwʊrɛ̀ɟʊ̀ ɡwɛ̀ɲ || dómbò ŋɡɛ̀ dàꜜɡʷàncò || ŋáró ŋʊcʊ̀ ŋáꜜdú ŋɡɛ̀ || ŋɪ̀dʊ̀ ŋɡɛ̀ ŋɔ̀r dɪdɔ̀rɛ̀ ŋɡɛ̀ dàð || dárènəɽ dáɟɔ̀ ŋɡɛ̀ dɪ̀ɽə́m dɛ̀ɽɛ̀ɲ || ŋúɽùn ŋárə́ldá ŋɡɛ̀ ŋájóꜜrŋé || ŋɪ̀dʊ̀ ŋɪɽə́ɲí ŋɡwáꜜt̪ɪ̀ ŋɡɛ̀ || ŋɛ̀ ŋɪðàꜜdɪ̀cɔ̀ ŋɡɛ̀ ɽ ŋɡádú ŋóɽwó ŋɛ̀/
Múzún má’á ŋáró ŋgè. Ŋgè ŋgáthíʼðó ŋgòr máŋàz mèñ. Ŋgè ŋgìccò ŋìrǎðì z ŋgè ŋgáʼllò gwùrèjù gwèñ. Dómbò ŋgè dàʼgwàncò. Ŋáró ŋùcù ŋáʼdú ŋgè. Ŋìdù ŋgè ŋòr dìdòrè ŋgè dàð. Dárènàz dájò ŋgè dìzǎm dèzèñ. Ŋúzun ŋárǎldá ŋgè ŋáyóʼrŋé. Ŋìdù ŋìzǎñí ŋgwáʼthì ŋgè. Ŋè ŋìðaʼdìcò ŋgè z ŋgádú ŋózwó ŋè.

This orthography is inspired by African, Papuan, and Dene languages.

I’m thinking about turning the following phonological sketch (inspired by my previous post https://www.verduria.org/viewtopic.php? ... 340#p25534) into a full conlang, but I can’t figure out a romanization I’m happy with. Can anyone help?

Consonants:

/m n ɲ ŋ ŋʷ/
/p t tʃ k kʷ/
/b d dʒ ɡ ɡʷ/
/ᵐb ⁿd ᶮdʒ ᵑɡ ᵑɡʷ/
/f θ s ʃ h/
/β z ʒ ɣ~ɰ ɣʷ~w/
/r j/

Vowels:

/i ɨ u e ə o æ ɑ/
/iː uː ɐː/
/iə uə/

Phonotactics: Syllables are (C)V(F), where F can be any nasal, stop or approximant. When V is a diphthong, a final consonant is not allowed.

Sample text:

/βeⁿd θɐːw ᶮdʒæn βɑ sɨt un ɰi huən wiː || ᵑɡʷæj βæ ŋiə dɐːɲʒo ɰə suːm tɨŋʷ pɐːj tʃo/


I did manage to come up with this romanization (hidden to save space):
But for various reasons I’m not too happy with it, hence my making this post.

Consonants:

/m n ɲ ŋ ŋʷ/ m n ny ng nq
/p t tʃ k kʷ/ p t c k q
/b d dʒ ɡ ɡʷ/ b d dj g gv
/ᵐb ⁿd ᶮdʒ ᵑɡ ᵑɡʷ/ mb nd nj ñg ñq
/f θ s ʃ h/ f ś s š h
/β z ʒ ɣ~ɰ ɣʷ~w/ v z ž ŵ w
/r j/ r j

Vowels:

/i ɨ u e ə o æ ɑ/ i ü u e â o ä a
/iː uː ɐː/ ī ū ā
/iə uə/ il ul
Alphabet order: Aa Āā Ââ Ää Bb Cc Dd Djdj Ee Ff Gg Gvgv Hh Ii Īī Jj Kk Ll Mm Nn Ññ Ngng Nqnq Nyny Oo Pp Qq Rr Ss Śś Šš Tt Uu Ūū Üü Vv Ww Ŵŵ Yy Zz Žž
Phonotactics: Syllables are (C)V(F), where F can be any nasal, stop or approximant. When V is a diphthong, a final consonant is not allowed.

Sample text:

/βeⁿd θɐːw ᶮdʒæn βɑ sɨt un ɰi huən wiː || ᵑɡʷæj βæ ŋiə dɐːɲʒo ɰə suːm tɨŋʷ pɐːj tʃo/
Vend śāw njän va süt un ŵi huln wī. Ñqäj vä ngil dānyžo ŵâ sūm tünq pāj co.

/m n ɲ ŋ ŋʷ/ <m n ny ng ngw/-wng>
/p t tʃ k kʷ/ <p t c k kw/-wk>
/b d dʒ ɡ ɡʷ/ <b d j g gw/-wg>
/ᵐb ⁿd ᶮdʒ ᵑɡ ᵑɡʷ/ <bb dd jj gg ggw/-wgg>
/f θ s ʃ h/ <f th s x h>
/β z ʒ ɣ~ɰ ɣʷ~w/ <v z r gh w>
/r j/ <l y>

/i ɨ u e ə o æ ɑ/ <i ue u e oe o ae a>
/iː uː ɐː/ <ii uu aa>
/iə uə/<ee oo>

/βeⁿd θɐːw ᶮdʒæn βɑ sɨt un ɰi huən wiː || ᵑɡʷæj βæ ŋiə dɐːɲʒo ɰə suːm tɨŋʷ pɐːj tʃo/
Vend thaaw jjaen va suet un ghi hoon wii. Ggwaey vae ngee daanyro ghoe suum tuewng paay co.
Vend thāw jjăn va sŭt un ghi hōn wī. Ggwĕy vĕ ngē dāñro ghŏ sūm tŭwng pāy co.
Vaind thaaw jjen va sut oun ghi huan wei. Ggwey ve ngia daañrau gho suum tuwng paay cau.

/kotʃaʔandʒʱama/

root-initials:
/p t k f s m n r j w ʔ/

root-medials:
/p t tʃ k ʔ/
/p' t' k'/
/pʰ tʰ tʃʰ kʰ/
/b d g/
/mb nd ndʒ ŋg/
/bʱ dʱ dʒʱ gʱ/
/mbʱ ndʱ ndʒʱ ŋgʱ/
/ɓ ɗ ɠ/
/mɓ nɗ ŋɠ/
/ɓʰ ɗʰ ɠʰ/
/mɓʰ nɗʰ ŋɠʰ/
/f s r m n j w/

vowels:
/i u e o a/

all content roots are C₁VC₂V, with medials only occurring as C₂. Coda consonants only permitted in absolute word-final position.

/so kaʔa ke lonɗʰanɗʰa sanaʔe padʒʱanu su fok'arandʒaram kale poga satʃur su ʔobʱoro/

/kotʃaʔandʒʱama/ ⟨Kocaʔanjhama⟩

Root-initials:
/p t k f s m n r j w ʔ/ ⟨p t k f s m n r y w ʔ⟩

Root-medials:
/p t tʃ k ʔ/ ⟨p t c k ʔ⟩
/p' t' k'/ ⟨pʼ tʼ kʼ⟩
/pʰ tʰ tʃʰ kʰ/ ⟨ph th ch kh⟩
/b d g/ ⟨b d g⟩
/mb nd ndʒ ŋg/ ⟨mb nd nj ng⟩
/bʱ dʱ dʒʱ gʱ/ ⟨bh dh jh gh⟩
/mbʱ ndʱ ndʒʱ ŋgʱ/ ⟨mbh ndh njh ngh⟩
/ɓ ɗ ɠ/ ⟨ɓ ɗ ɠ⟩
/mɓ nɗ ŋɠ/ ⟨mɓ nɗ nɠ⟩
/ɓʰ ɗʰ ɠʰ/ ⟨ɓh ɗh ɠh⟩
/mɓʰ nɗʰ ŋɠʰ/ ⟨mɓ nɗ nɠ⟩
/f s r m n j w/ ⟨f s r m n y w⟩

Vowels:
/i u e o a/ ⟨i u e o a⟩

Sample text:
/so kaʔa ke lonɗʰanɗʰa sanaʔe padʒʱanu su fok'arandʒaram kale poga satʃur su ʔobʱoro/
⟨So kaʔa ke lonɗhanɗha sanaʔe pajhanu su fokʼaranjaram kale poga sacur su ʔobhoro.⟩

/kotʃaʔandʒʱama/ Koca7anjhama or Koča’addžhama

root-initials:
/p t k f s m n r j w ʔ/ p t k f s m n r y w 7 or p t k f s m n r j w ‘

root-medials:
/p t tʃ k ʔ/ p t c k 7 or p t č k ‘
/p' t' k'/ ᵽ ŧ ꝁ or p’ t’ k’
/pʰ tʰ tʃʰ kʰ/ ph th ch kh or ph th čh kh
/b d g/ b d g or b d g
/mb nd ndʒ ŋg/ mb nd nj ng or bb dd ddž gg
/bʱ dʱ dʒʱ gʱ/ bh dh jh gh or bh dh džh gh
/mbʱ ndʱ ndʒʱ ŋgʱ/ mbh ndh njh ngh or bbh ddh ddžh ggh
/ɓ ɗ ɠ/ ƀ đ ǥ or b’ d’ g’
/mɓ nɗ ŋɠ/ mƀ nđ nǥ or bq dq gq
/ɓʰ ɗʰ ɠʰ/ ƀh đh ǥh or bh’ dh’ gh’
/mɓʰ nɗʰ ŋɠʰ/ mƀh nđh nǥh or br dg gc
/f s r m n j w/ f s r m n y w or f s r m n j w

vowels:
/i u e o a/ i u e o a or i u e o a

all content roots are C₁VC₂V, with medials only occurring as C₂. Coda consonants only permitted in absolute word-final position.

/so kaʔa ke lonɗʰanɗʰa sanaʔe padʒʱanu su fok'arandʒaram kale poga satʃur su
So ka7a ke lonđhanđha sana7e pajhanu su foꝁaranjaram kale poga sacur su.
Or
So ka’a ke lodgadga sana’e padžhanu su fok’arandžaram kale poga sačur su.

Ok
Language family
Proto Euclidean
/m~n/
/t k/
/f s h/
/l j w/

/i u o a/

/an.su.jul.ssam ha.jo.swa.la.nji njo.ku.njo.sa.sjan ka.ssi.hol.tu.mu jo.tju.sja.kam nwa.ra.nwi.kos ha.sa.kwi.laj jo.jok.nwa/

/in.nas/

/m n ɲ ŋ/
/p t k/
/f s ʃ h/
/t͝ʃ/
/l j w/
/r/

/i u o a~æ ɑ/

/ɑnu jul.hɑm ha.jo swɑ.rɑ.ɲi ɲo.ku.ɲo sa.ʃɑn kɑ hi.hol tu.mu jo.t͝ʃu ʃa.kɑm ŋɑ.rɑ ŋi.kos hɑ.sɑ kwi.læ jo.jok ŋɑ/

/kʉ.sʉː/

/m n/
/p b t d k/
/β f s z ʃ ʒ ʝ~ɟ~j ɣ~g~ɰ ɣʷ~gʷ~w/
/t͝ʃ d͝ʒ/
/l j w/
/r/

/i iː ʉ ʉː o oː æ æː ɒ ɒː/
/Ṽ/

/a.nʉ jʉː.hɒ̃ hæː.wo soː.rɒ̃ː.jiː jo.kʉː.woː sɒː.ʒɒ̃ː kɒː hiː.wo tʉ̃ː dɒː.ji ɰæ̃ː.ʃiː kiː.ɰi.t͝ʃɒ̃ joː hæ̃ː oː næː.koː/

Proto-Euclidean

/m~n/ ⟨m~n⟩
/t k/ ⟨t k⟩
/f s h/ ⟨f s h⟩
/l j w/ ⟨l y w⟩

Gemination is expressed via consonant doubling.

/i u o a/ ⟨i u o a⟩

/an.su.jul.ssam ha.jo.swa.la.nji njo.ku.njo.sa.sjan ka.ssi.hol.tu.mu jo.tju.sja.kam nwa.ra.nwi.kos ha.sa.kwi.laj jo.jok.nwa/
⟨Ansuyulssam hayoswalanyi nyokunyosasyan kassiholtumu yotyisyakam nwaranwikos hasakwilay yoyoknwa.⟩

/in.nas/ Innas

/m n ɲ ŋ/ ⟨m n ń ng⟩
/p t k/ ⟨p t k⟩
/f s ʃ h/ ⟨f s ś h⟩
/t͝ʃ/ ⟨ć⟩
/l j w/ ⟨l y w⟩
/r/ ⟨r⟩

/i u o a~æ ɑ/ ⟨i u o ä a⟩

/ɑnu jul.hɑm ha.jo swɑ.rɑ.ɲi ɲo.ku.ɲo sa.ʃɑn kɑ hi.hol tu.mu jo.t͝ʃu ʃa.kɑm ŋɑ.rɑ ŋi.kos hɑ.sɑ kwi.læ jo.jok ŋɑ/
⟨Anu yulham häyo swarańi ńokuńo säśan ka hihol tumu yoću śäkam ngara ngikos hasa kwilä yoyok nga.⟩

/kʉ.sʉː/ ⟨Kŭsu⟩

/m n/ ⟨m n⟩
/p b t d k/ ⟨p b t d k⟩
/β f s z ʃ ʒ ʝ~ɟ~j ɣ~g~ɰ ɣʷ~gʷ~w/ ⟨v f s z ś ź y ɣ w⟩
/t͝ʃ d͝ʒ/ ⟨c j⟩
/l j w/ ⟨l y w⟩
/r/ ⟨r⟩

/i ʉ o æ ɒ/ ⟨i u o a ɔ⟩
/V Vː Ṽ Ṽː/ ⟨V̆ V V̆ⁿ Vⁿ⟩

/a.nʉ jʉː.hɒ̃ hæː.wo soː.rɒ̃ː.jiː jo.kʉː.woː sɒː.ʒɒ̃ː kɒː hiː.wo tʉ̃ː dɒː.ji ɰæ̃ː.ʃiː kiː.ɰi.t͝ʃɒ̃ joː hæ̃ː oː næː.koː/
⟨Ănŭ yuhŏⁿ hawŏ sorɔⁿyi yŏkuwo sɔźɔⁿ kɔ hiwŏ tuⁿ dɔyĭ ɣaⁿśi kiɣĭcɔ̆ⁿ yo haⁿ o nako.⟩

Chongming Wu

Libgen has a scan of the standard dialect dictionary of this rather unusual little dialect of Wu (the group that includes Shanghainese). Its phonology is eccentric, to say the least.

Initials

Plain stops/affricates: /p t ts tɕ k ʔ/
Aspirates: /pʰ tʰ tsʰ tɕʰ kʰ/
Voiced stops/affricates: /b d dz dʑ g/
Glottalized Sonorants: /mˀ nˀ ɲˀ ŋˀ lˀ/ (these are transcribed <ʔm>, etc. I don't read Mandarin well enough to know what's going on with them phonetically.)
Breathy-Voiced Sonorants: /mʱ nʱ ɲʱ ŋʱ lʱ/ (these are transcribed <ɦm>, etc. I presume they're breathy-voiced.)
Voiceless Fricatives: /f s ɕ h/
Voiceless Fricatives: /v z ʑ ɦ "hɦ"/ (I have no clue what <hɦ> is supposed to be, but it is in the same column as the other voiceless fricatives.)

(on second thought, I suspect "h hɦ" are actually /x ɣ/.)

Finals

/ɿ ɑ e ø ɛ æ ɵ ɔ ei/
/i iɑ ie iɛ iɵ iɔ/
/u uɑ ue uɛ uæ uo uei/
/y yø/

/ã ɑ̃/
/iã iɑ̃/
/uã uɑ̃/
/ən in uən yn/
/oŋ yoŋ/ (not yøŋ, apparently)
/m̩ n̩ ŋ̩/

/æʔ ɑʔ əʔ øʔ oʔ/
/iɑʔ iəʔ/
/uæʔ uɑʔ uəʔ uoʔ/
/yøʔ yoʔ/ (not a typo)

Tones
There are six phonemic tones in non-checked syllables (those not ending in a glottal stop), but they fall into two categories that are (almost?) in complementary distribution: the yin tones /55 424 33/, and the yang tones /24 242 313/. The former appear where the initial is a voiceless obstruent or glottalized sonorant, and the latter where it's a voiced obstruent or breathy-voiced sonorant. Apparently there aren't any null initials, and the /ʔ/ initial patterns as yin.

Additionally, there are two tones in checked syllables: /ʔ5 ʔ2/. The former is yin, and the latter is yang.

Phonotactics
My Mandarin is very basic, so I can't read the prose, but the authors helpfully give some tables of legal initial-final-tone combinations. I'm going to arrange this section by tone and finals.

First, the complementary(ish) distribution between the tones noted above. Though there are eight tones phonetically, you might be able to grind this down to as few as three phonemic.

Oral Finals

The apical vowel /ɿ/ appears to be in complementary distribution with the final /i/; the former appears after the alveolars /ts tsʰ dz s z/ and the latter after all other initials. /i/ does appear to be allowed after a handful of velars, as e.g. 去 /kʰi³³/ (Mandarin qù), though these seem to be quite rare and outnumbered by /i/ after the postalveolars /tɕ tɕʰ dʑ ɕ ʑ ɲˀ ɲʱ/, where we have e.g. 記 /tɕi³³/ = Mand. jì = Canto gei³. After the null initial /ʔ/ and /ɦ/, which seems to pattern with it, we only find /i/, never /ɿ/.

/y/ is only found after the /tɕ/ series, /ʔ/, and /ɦ/. /u/ and /ɑ/ are found after all series of initials except the /tɕ/ series.

The /iɑ/ and /uɑ/ finals have interesting distributions. The former is found only after the /tɕ/ series and /ʔ ɦ/ (we'll call these the "null glottals")--but also after /t/ and /t/ alone (no other members of the dental series). /uɑ/ is only found after velars and the null glottals.

/e/ only exists after /ʔ/, but /ie/ is found after every series, including the velar series in /k/, alveolars in /ts/, and postalveolars in /tɕ/. /ue/ only found after the null glottals and velars.

The /ø/ final is found after the dentals /t/ etc., alveolars /ts/, velars and null glottals, but not the postalveolars /tɕ/. /yø/ is only found after the postalveolars /tɕ/ and the null glottals (thus, not quite in complementary distribution).

/ɛ/ is found after every series except the postalveolars /tɕ/. /iɛ/ is only found after /ɦ/. /uɛ/ is only found after the velars and the null glottals.

/æ/ is found after every series except the postalveolars /tɕ/ and the null glottals--labials /p/, dentals /t/, alveolars /ts/, and velars /k/. /uæ/ is only found after the velars, but is found after the null glottals.

/ɵ/ is found in the same environments as /æ/, except that it also appears after /ʔ/ (but not /ɦ/). /iɵ/ is found after the postalveolars /tɕ/ and null glottals, but also (irregularly?) after /p/, /t/, /ʔl/ and /ɦl/.

/ɔ/ is found after labials /p/, dentals /t/, alveolars /ts/, velars /k/ and the null glottals, but not after postalveolars /tɕ/. /iɔ/ is found after labials, dentals, postalveolars /tɕ/ and the null glottals, but not after alveolars /ts/ or velars /k/.

/o/ is found only after labials /p/, alveolars /ts/, velars and the null glottals. /uo/ is only found after velars and the null glottals.

/ei/ is found after every series except the postalveolars /tɕ/--and, oddly, the null glottals. /uei/ is only found after velars and the null glottals (i.e., /ei/ and /uei/ contrast only after velars).

Nasal Finals

/ən/ is found after every series but the postalveolars. /in/ is found after labials, dentals and postalveolars, but not alveolars /ts/ or velars /k/. A final /uən/ exists after velars and the null glottals.

/yn/ is fairly restricted; it only appears after the postalveolars /tɕ/ and the null glottals.

/ã/ can appear everywhere except after the postalveolars /tɕ/. Its counterpart /iã/ can appear after the postalveolars, but also after the null glottals and both laterals /lˀ lʱ/. /uã/ is restricted to just the velars and nulls.

/ɑ̃/ can appear after everything except the postalveolars. /iɑ̃/ is restricted to the postalveolars and the nulls, /uɑ̃/ to the velars and nulls.

/oŋ/ appears after...we're hitting a pattern here, aren't we? /oŋ/ after everything but the postalveolars, /yoŋ/ to the postalveolars and nulls.

The syllabic nasals /m̩ n̩ ŋ̩/ can only appear after the two null initials, which don't seem to contrast strongly before them (e.g. 我 'I' can be read as either /ʔŋ̩⁵⁵/ or /ɦŋ̩³³/.)

Checked Finals

We are finally getting to the end of this cursed phonology.

/æʔ/ and /ɑʔ/ can appear everywhere except after the postalveolars, while /uæʔ/ and /uɑʔ/ only appear after velars and nulls, and /iɑʔ/ after postalveolars, nulls, and also /lʱ/.

/əʔ/ appears everywhere except after the postalveolars; /iəʔ/ appears everywhere except after the alveolars /ts/ and velars /k/. /uəʔ/ only appears after velars and nulls.

/øʔ/ and /yøʔ/ seem to be in complementary distribution: the former appears after dentals /t/, alveolars /ts/ and velars /k/ (but not nulls), while the latter appears after postalveolars /tɕ/ and nulls. (But both finals seem to be really rare, so the complementary distribution may just be coincidence).

/oʔ/ and /uoʔ/ are nearly in the same boat. The former appears everywhere except after postalveolars. The latter *only* appears after /ʔ/ in, apparently, a single character. Its palatalized counterpart /yoʔ/ fares a bit better: it appears after postalveolars and both null initials (so /uoʔ/ is, just barely, in complementary distribution with both /oʔ/ and /yoʔ/.)

-------------------------

This was an interminably cursed phonology to wade through and I can't wait to see what people propose...

/p t ts tɕ k ʔ/ p t ts tc k ∅
/pʰ tʰ tsʰ tɕʰ kʰ/ ph th tsh tch kh
/b d dz dʑ g/ b d dz dj g
/mˀ nˀ ɲˀ ŋˀ lˀ/ mh nh gnh ngh lh
/mʱ nʱ ɲʱ ŋʱ lʱ/ m n gn ng l
/f s ɕ h/ f s c h
/v z ʑ ɦ "hɦ"/ v z j hh gh

/ɿ ɑ e ø ɛ æ ɵ ɔ ei/ i a e oe ea ae o oa ei
/i iɑ ie iɛ iɵ iɔ/ i ia ie iea io ioa
/u uɑ ue uɛ uæ uo uei/ u ua ue uea uae uo uei
/y yø/ ui uio

/ã ɑ̃/ an oan
/iã iɑ̃/ ian ioan
/uã uɑ̃/ uan uoan
/ən in uən yn/ en in uen uin
/oŋ yoŋ/ ong uiong
/m̩ n̩ ŋ̩/ um un ung

/æʔ ɑʔ əʔ øʔ oʔ/ aeh ah eh oeh oh
/iɑʔ iəʔ/ iah ieh
/uæʔ uɑʔ uəʔ uoʔ/ uaeh uah ueh uoh
/yøʔ yoʔ/ uioeh uioh

Tone diacritics - placed on the first vowel letter of a polygraph:

Non-checked:
Yin: /55 424 33/ a â á
Yang: /24 242 313/ a â á

Checked syllables receive no tone marking.

Yes, there are tetragraphs. And it's not really in the tradition of Chinese Latin transcription systems, but I wanted to avoid any special characters aside from the tone diacritics. If I had a full table of the legal initial-final combinations, some redundant orthographic combinations could be eliminated based on complementary or near-complementary distribution. As it stands, this orthography only reflects the complementary distribution of /i/ and /ɿ/. (And the yin and yang tones.)

The apostrophe actually is used to divide syllables in cases where ambiguity may arise, just like in pinyin.

Thus...

我 /ʔŋ̩⁵⁵/ ung
我 /ɦŋ̩³³/ hhúng

Chongming Wu

I’m sure there’s some sort of simplification to be made, but a quick read-through didn’t reveal any obviously redundant initial+final combinations. (Besides, I didn’t want to do what Pinyin did, where one vowel letter ends up representing any number of different phonetic vowels.) So like missals, I ended up just merging /ɿ~i/ and the yin/yang tones (in unchecked syllables).

Initials:

Plain stops/affricates: /p t ts tɕ k ʔ/ ⟨p t c ch k q⟩
Aspirates: /pʰ tʰ tsʰ tɕʰ kʰ/ ⟨pʼ tʼ cʼ chʼ kʼ⟩
Voiced stops/affricates: /b d dz dʑ g/ ⟨b d z zh g⟩
Glottalized Sonorants: /mˀ nˀ ɲˀ ŋˀ lˀ/ ⟨mʼ nʼ nyʼ ngʼ lʼ⟩
Breathy-Voiced Sonorants: /mʱ nʱ ɲʱ ŋʱ lʱ/ ⟨m n yn ng l⟩
Voiceless Fricatives: /f s ɕ h/ ⟨f s x h⟩
Voiceless Fricatives: /v z ʑ ɦ "hɦ"/ ⟨v zz r hh gh⟩

Finals:

/ɿ ɑ e ø ɛ æ ɵ ɔ ei/ ⟨i i a e ö ea ä o oa ei⟩
/i iɑ ie iɛ iɵ iɔ/ ⟨i ya ye yea yo yoa⟩
/u uɑ ue uɛ uæ uo uei/ ⟨u wa we wea wä wo wei⟩
/y yø/ ⟨ü ẅo⟩

/ã ɑ̃/ ⟨äⁿ aⁿ⟩
/iã iɑ̃/ ⟨wäⁿ yaⁿ⟩
/uã uɑ̃/ ⟨wäⁿ waⁿ⟩
/ən in uən yn/ ⟨en in wen ün⟩
/oŋ yoŋ/ ⟨ong ẅong⟩
/m̩ n̩ ŋ̩/ ⟨m n ng⟩

(NB. The syllabic nasals are written without any initial, since initials aren’t contrastive before them.)

/æʔ ɑʔ əʔ øʔ oʔ/ ⟨äq aq eq öq oq⟩
/iɑʔ iəʔ/ ⟨yaq yeq⟩
/uæʔ uɑʔ uəʔ uoʔ/ ⟨wäq waq weq woq⟩
/yøʔ yoʔ/ ⟨ẅöq ẅoq⟩

Tone:

Tones are marked using tone letters at the end of a syllable:

Yin: /55 424 33/ ⟨-h -x -∅⟩
Yang: /24 242 313/ ⟨-h -x -∅⟩
Checked: /ʔ5 ʔ2/ ⟨-h -∅⟩

Sample text:

None yet. But I would be really interested in seeing a sample text (or at least a collection of random syllables) so I can see how well my romanization works!

Unless I'm misunderstanding something in the description, that analysis is stupid and there are rounded velars and laryngeals.

No special characters, no tetragraphs. Reanalyses:
- uV rimes only occur after velars and laryngeals, so there are labialized consonants instead. /y yø/ are unified with /i ɵ/. Labiovelars palatalize before front vowels: [tɕiɵ tɕyø] /kiɵ kʷiɵ/.
- /e/ only occurs after laryngeals and /ei/ occurs everywhere but after laryngeals, so those are unified.
- It would be nice to be able to get rid of palatals, but there doesn't seem to be a good way to do that. They only contrast before /i ei/, right?

/p t ts tɕ k ʔ/ <b d z gy g q>
/pʰ tʰ tsʰ tɕʰ kʰ/ <p t c ky k>
/b d dz dʑ g/ <bb dd zz ggy gg>
/mˀ nˀ ɲˀ ŋˀ lˀ/ <m n ngy ng l>
/mʱ nʱ ɲʱ ŋʱ lʱ/ <mm nn mgy mg ll>
/f s ɕ h/ <f s x h>
/v z ʑ ɦ "hɦ"/ <ff ss xx qq hh>
labialization: <w>

/ɿ ɑ e ø ɛ æ ɵ ɔ ei/ <i a e v z x o q (y)e>
/i iɑ ie iɛ iɵ iɔ/ <(y)i ya ye yz yo yq>
/y yø/ <i o>

/ã ɑ̃/ <xn an>
/iã iɑ̃/ <yxn yan>
/ən in yn/ <zn in in>
/oŋ yoŋ/ <on yon>
/m̩ n̩ ŋ̩/ <m n ng>

/æʔ ɑʔ əʔ øʔ oʔ/ <xq aq zq vq oq>
/iɑʔ iəʔ/ <yaq yzq>
/yøʔ yoʔ/ <yzq yaq>

Something different from my usual fare, inspired by Hausa.

m n ɲ ŋ
ɓ b p pʰ p‘ ɗ d t tʰ t‘ gʲ kʲ kʰʲ kʲ‘ g k kʰ k‘ gʷ kʷ kʰʷ kʷ‘
dz ts tsʰ ts‘ dʒ tʃ tsʰ tʃ‘
f v s z ʃ x h
w ɾ l j

a e i u o a ɨ
ɪ ʊ ə

Based on the African reference alphabet and the General Alphabet of Cameroon Languages:

/m n ɲ ŋ/ ⟨m n ny ŋ⟩
/ɓ b p pʰ p‘ ɗ d t tʰ t‘ gʲ kʲ kʰʲ kʲ‘ g k kʰ k‘ gʷ kʷ kʰʷ kʷ‘/ ⟨ɓ b p ph ƥ ɖ d t th ƭ gy ky khy ƙy g k kh ƙ gw kw khw ƙw⟩
/dz ts tsʰ ts‘ dʒ tʃ tsʰ tʃ‘/ ⟨ts dz tsh ƭs j c ch c c̓⟩
/f v s z ʃ x h/ ⟨f v s z sh zh x h⟩
/w ɾ l j/ ⟨w r l y⟩

/a e i u o a ɨ/ ⟨a e i u o a ɨ⟩
/ɪ ʊ ə/ ⟨ɩ ʊ ə⟩

(Note: you seem to have listed /a/ twice in the vowels.)

True that! One /a/ is there mistakenly.

Here's another language from the same family:

Consonants:
m n
b p pʰ p' d t tʰ t' g k kʰ k' ʔ
ts tsʰ ts' dʒ tʃ tʃʰ tʃ’ tɬ tɬʰ tɬ'
f v s z ɬ ʃ x
w r l j

Ejectives and /r/ are never found word-initially. Glottal stop is only ever intervocalic. Voiced consonants are never found word-finally.

Vowels:
ə ɪ ʊ
i e u a o ɨ
Two tones - high and default, tones do not appear before ejective consonants due to diachronic fuckery

(C)V(C) syllable structure, clusters are very rare with the exception of nasal + voiced occlusive ones.

Consonants:
/m n/ ⟨m n⟩
/b p pʰ p' d t tʰ t' g k kʰ k' ʔ/ ⟨b p ph ƥ d t th ƭ g k kh ƙ ʔ⟩
/dz ts tsʰ ts' dʒ tʃ tʃʰ tʃ’ tɬ tɬʰ tɬ'/ ⟨dz ts tsh ƭs c ch c̓ ƛ ƛh ƛʼ⟩
/f v s z ɬ ʃ x/ ⟨f v s z lh sh x⟩
/w r l j/ ⟨w r l y⟩

Vowels:
/ə ɪ ʊ/ ⟨ə ɩ ʊ⟩
/i e u a o ɨ/ ⟨i e u a o ɨ⟩
Long vowels: ⟨ii ee uu aa oo ɨɨ⟩
High tone is marked with acute accent

This is a new conlang I’m making, but I’m having trouble romanizing it (for the moment I’m just using an IPA-based system). Interestingly, it’s fairly easy to make a romanization — it’s making one that’s fairly intuitive and readable that’s hard. I’d appreciate some help!

Consonants:

/m n ŋ/
/p t k ʔ/
/pʰ tʰ kʰ/
/ᵐb ⁿd ᵑɡ/
/b d/
/ts tɬ/
/tsʰ tɬʰ/
/f s ɬ ɣ/
/w l j/

Vowels: /i u ə a iː aː/

Phonotactics: All syllable have CV(C) structure. The glottal stop is allowed as an onset, but forbidden as a coda. Moras are defined as follows: a CV syllable is 1 mora, a CVː syllable (with a long vowel) is 2 moras, a CVC syllable (with a coda) is also 2 moras, and a CVːC syllable (with both a long vowel and a coda) is 3 moras. Words must be at least bimoraic.

Stress: Stress is predictable: the syllable with the most number of moras (i.e. the heaviest syllable) is stressed, so e.g. /ˈɬii.sə/, /ʔəˈtɬaaɣ/. If there are multiple heaviest syllables, the stress goes on the first, e.g. /ˈba.na/, /daˈlas.naː/. However, a syllable with /ə/ as its vowel may not be stressed; instead, the next heaviest (or next equal heaviest if there are multiple syllables with the same weight) syllable is stressed, so we get e.g. /ˈʔi.nəɣ/ rather than /ʔiˈnəɣ/, /da.ləsˈnaː/ rather than /daˈləs.naː/. Stress is not phonemic, but it may appear to be depending on syllabification, especially with prenasalised consonants: e.g. /wa.ⁿdal/ is stressed on the second syllable, whereas /wan.dal/ is stressed on the first syllable.

Sample text:

/tʰaŋ ˈʔaŋətʰ ˈɬiːsə || bal ˈwiːlət͡s ʔəˈt͡ɬaːɣ || ⁿdil ˈdaːlan ˈt͡suʔəɬ t͡sʰit͡ɬ ˈʔinəɣ/

<m n ŋ
p t k ɂ
ph th kh
mb nd ŋɡ
b d
ts tł
tsh tłh
f s ł r
v l j>

<i u e a ii aa>

Thaŋ ɂaŋeth łiise. Bal viilets ɂetłaar. Ndil daalan tsuɂel tshitɬ ɂiner.

Consonants:

/m n ŋ/ m n g or m n ñ
/p t k ʔ/ p t k q or p t k c
/pʰ tʰ kʰ/ ph th kh or pp tt kk
/ᵐb ⁿd ᵑɡ/ mb nd ng or bb dd gg
/b d/ b d or b d
/ts tɬ/ c x or ts tł
/tsʰ tɬʰ/ ch xh or ss łł
/f s ɬ ɣ/ f s z r or f s ł g
/w l j/ w l j or v l y

Vowels: /i u ə a iː aː/ i u e a ī ā or i u ä a i’ a’

Phonotactics: All syllable have CV(C) structure. The glottal stop is allowed as an onset, but forbidden as a coda. Moras are defined as follows: a CV syllable is 1 mora, a CVː syllable (with a long vowel) is 2 moras, a CVC syllable (with a coda) is also 2 moras, and a CVːC syllable (with both a long vowel and a coda) is 3 moras. Words must be at least bimoraic.

Stress: Stress is predictable: the syllable with the most number of moras (i.e. the heaviest syllable) is stressed, so e.g. /ˈɬii.sə/, /ʔəˈtɬaaɣ/. If there are multiple heaviest syllables, the stress goes on the first, e.g. /ˈba.na/, /daˈlas.naː/. However, a syllable with /ə/ as its vowel may not be stressed; instead, the next heaviest (or next equal heaviest if there are multiple syllables with the same weight) syllable is stressed, so we get e.g. /ˈʔi.nəɣ/ rather than /ʔiˈnəɣ/, /da.ləsˈnaː/ rather than /daˈləs.naː/. Stress is not phonemic, but it may appear to be depending on syllabification, especially with prenasalised consonants: e.g. /wa.ⁿdal/ is stressed on the second syllable, whereas /wan.dal/ is stressed on the first syllable.

Sample text:

/tʰaŋ ˈʔaŋətʰ ˈɬiːsə || bal ˈwiːlət͡s ʔəˈt͡ɬaːɣ || ⁿdil ˈdaːlan ˈt͡suʔəɬ t͡sʰit͡ɬ ˈʔinəɣ/ Thag qageth zīse. Bal wīlec qexār. Ndil dālan cuqezchix qiner.
Or
Ttañ cañeth łi’se. Bal wi’lets cetłaag. Ddil da’lan tsucełccitł cineg.
Or Arabic script
طڠ عڠهط ڵيسه. بل ويلهڅ عهظاغ. ندل دالن څعهلځيظ عنهغ.
Knit Tie’s language.

Consonants:
m n m n
b p pʰ p' d t tʰ t' g k kʰ k' ʔ b p ph pp d t th tt g k kh kk q
ts tsʰ ts' dʒ tʃ tʃʰ tʃ’ tɬ tɬʰ tɬ' c ch cc j č čh čč tł tłh ttł
f v s z ɬ ʃ x f v s z ł š h
w r l j w r l y

Ejectives and /r/ are never found word-initially. Glottal stop is only ever intervocalic. Voiced consonants are never found word-finally.

Vowels:
ə ɪ ʊ à ì ù
i e u a o ɨ i e u a o ü
Two tones - high and default, tones do not appear before ejective consonants due to diachronic fuckery
High: á/é/í/ó/ú/ǘ/ǎ/ǐ/ǔ
Default: a/e/i/o/u/ü/à/ì/ù.
(C)V(C) syllable structure, clusters are very rare with the exception of nasal + voiced occlusive ones.

Three of mine
Oreyo
/oˈɍeɉo/
/m n ṉʲ ɴ/
/p b t d ṯʲ ḏʲ k g q ɢ ʔ/
/f v s z ɕ ʑ x ɣ χ ʁ h/
/ts dz ṯʲɕ ḏʲʑ/
/l ḻʲ j ɉ ɥ ɰ w/
/r ɍ ṟʲ/
The r with the bar is a palatal trill and the j with the bar is an alveolopalatal approximant.

/i y ɯ u ɪ ʏ ɯ̽ ʊ e ø ɤ o ə ɛ œ ʌ ɔ ɑ/
The tense vowels are always long, and the lax ones are always short.

Stardot
/βuŋ sʰɑːʀ/
/m n ŋ/
/p b t d k g ʔ/
/β f s sʰ~z̥ ʒ ʝ ɣ χ h/
/l ʎ w/
/r ʀ/

/i iː ʉ ʉː u uː ʏ ʏː ʊ ʊː e eː o oː ɛ ɛː œ œː ɔ ɔː æ æː ɑ ɑː ɒ ɒː/

Cotaili
/koːˈtajliː/
/m n ɲ ɲʷ ŋ ŋʷ/
/p b t d c ɟ cʷ ɟʷ k g kʷ gʷ/
/ɸ β θ ð s z ç ʝ çʷ ʝʷ ʃ ʒ ʃʷ ʒʷ x ɣ xʷ ɣʷ h hʷ~ʍ/
/ts dz tʃ dʒ tʃʷ dʒʷ/
/l j ɥ w ɰ/
/r/

/i y ɨ u ə e o œ æ ɑ/
All vowels can be long or short.

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:22 pm it’s fairly easy to make a romanization — it’s making one that’s fairly intuitive and readable that’s hard

/m n ŋ/
/p t k ʔ/
/pʰ tʰ kʰ/
/ᵐb ⁿd ᵑɡ/
/b d/
/ts tɬ/
/tsʰ tɬʰ/
/f s ɬ ɣ/
/w l j/

/i u ə a iː aː/

<m n ng>
<p t k q>
<ph th kh>
<mb nd ng>
<b d>
<ts tl>
<tsh tlh>
<f s ll y>
<w l j>
<i u e a ii aa>

I opted for digraph <ng>. I suppose this could be confusing if there's often CVn.gV(C) syllables. For <q> you could use <'>, but I dislike apostrophs-as-letters. <y> is controversial, but seeing you don't need it otherwise and it resembles ɣ, why not? <ll> is taken from Welsh. I've opted not to use it after t, no need to make the spelling 100% phonetic (althoug CVt.lV(C) and CVtl.lV(C) clashes could occur). Vowels are straightforward, schwa can be <e> since there's no /e/, and long vowels can be doubled since syllables are CV(C) and clashes can't occur.

/tʰaŋ ˈʔaŋətʰ ˈɬiːsə || bal ˈwiːlət͡s ʔəˈt͡ɬaːɣ || ⁿdil ˈdaːlan ˈt͡suʔəɬ t͡sʰit͡ɬ ˈʔinəɣ/

<Thang qangeth lliise. Bal wiilets qetlaay. Ndil daalan tsuqall tshitl qiney.>

Does the job I think, and pretty readible?


JAL