Zompist Bboard Again

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:15 amAs with modern IE languages, PIE had a very productive derivational morphology, and its traces are all over its modern-day descendants.

Talskubilos wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:26 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:15 amAs with modern IE languages, PIE had a very productive derivational morphology, and its traces are all over its modern-day descendants.

So you're basically saying PIE behaves like a conlang, are you?

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:24 amAnd you couldn't explain that? Also, naming animals for a trait they have is not particularly uncommon — both Sinitic and Japonic appear to have onomatopoeic words for "cat", for example; we also have animal names like rusty spotted cat, ant-eater, and so on in English — so an explanation of why you find it ridiculous would also be in order, as is an apology.

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:32 amNo, why would I say that? If anything, I’m saying that conlangs can become more naturalistic by having a productive derivational morphology.

Talskubilos wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:36 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:32 amNo, why would I say that? If anything, I’m saying that conlangs can become more naturalistic by having a productive derivational morphology.

The thing is the +2000 lexical items reconstructed for PIE haven't got the same Ablaut nor derivative patterns, IMHO because they belong to different linguistic strata.

Talskubilos wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:33 am Cute picture.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:07 amWould those be multicoloured boar cubs?

Talskubilos wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:26 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:15 amAs with modern IE languages, PIE had a very productive derivational morphology, and its traces are all over its modern-day descendants.

So you're basically saying PIE behaves like a conlang, are you?

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:18 amSo "multicoloured" shifting to "young pig" is an entirely plausible etymology.

Zju wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:52 amIf anything, your ad hoc protoforms of all kinds of alleged wanderwörter are constructed.

Talskubilos wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:10 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:01 amYes, indeed they are extremely different “warm”↔“apple” makes very little sense, whereas “dig”↔“pig” is perfectly plausible.

As I said before, there's no such verb 'to dig'.

Talskubilos wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:17 am

Zju wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:52 amIf anything, your ad hoc protoforms of all kinds of alleged wanderwörter are constructed.

In long-range comparisons, it's far easier to pick Wandewörter rather than true inherited lexicon (excluding chance resemblances, of course).

Talskubilos wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:58 am

keenir wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:46 amwait, why do we need a missing link, when you said the Nakh language provides a better origin than PIE does? if you're using Nakh as a source for a missing link, then where is the language that Nakh gets it from?(from PIE to Nakh to IE?)

Perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough. On the one hand, we've got an "apple" Wanderwort in several languages, and on the other IE *meh₂l-o- 'apple'. The Nakh-Daghestanian word would be the "missing link" between both.

Talskubilos wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:26 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:15 amAs with modern IE languages, PIE had a very productive derivational morphology, and its traces are all over its modern-day descendants.

So you're basically saying PIE behaves like a conlang, are you?

Talskubilos wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:33 am

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:24 amAnd you couldn't explain that? Also, naming animals for a trait they have is not particularly uncommon — both Sinitic and Japonic appear to have onomatopoeic words for "cat", for example; we also have animal names like rusty spotted cat, ant-eater, and so on in English — so an explanation of why you find it ridiculous would also be in order, as is an apology.

It happens that "speckled" isn't a salient characteristic of piglets, but rather of boar cubs.

Talskubilos wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:15 am

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:18 amSo "multicoloured" shifting to "young pig" is an entirely plausible etymology.

It could be so if "Kurgan" (or any body else who spoke "PIE") people didn't domesticate the animal and imported piglets from elsewhere without the corresponding loanword.

Talskubilos wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:26 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:15 amAs with modern IE languages, PIE had a very productive derivational morphology, and its traces are all over its modern-day descendants.

So you're basically saying PIE behaves like a conlang, are you?

Pabappa wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:27 pm PIE is typically described as being heavily based on verbal roots, though, even for truly elementary concepts like fire, water, frogs, weather, and people. As Ive said further upthread, I think people go a little too far in trying to break down even these very fundamental concepts into preexisting compounds, such as saying that "night" is derived from the word for "naked" .... but with a less than convincing argument for the semantic shift. Yet, the structure of these proposed etymologies is not in doubt ..... you would have to argue against the whole of PIE scholarship if you think that words for basic concepts were not derived through vowel ablaut from preexisting verb roots.