Zompist Bboard Again

alice wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 2:41 pm Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band was (traditionally) released 57 years ago today. This date will soon become like D-Day: nobody alive will be able to remember it.

Does that mean it was now 77 years ago today that Sergeant Pepper told the band to play?

alice wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 2:41 pm Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band was (traditionally) released 57 years ago today. This date will soon become like D-Day: nobody alive will be able to remember it.

What I find strange is how eclipsed earlier music seems to be. E.g. I just looked up Frank Sinatra's best album— some at least think it's In The Wee Small Hours, which came out in 1955, just 12 years before Sgt. Pepper.

(I dunno, maybe you're all jazz fanatics. But I feel like there's a huge gulf between 1950s and 1960s pop music.)

“with a straight face, Youtuber Sabine Hossenfelder said” wrote: I’m not autistic; I’m just rude!
Or maybe German.
(But I repeat myself.)

She’s a science communicator.
In that video, she was doing a “deep dive” about neurodiversity, neurodivergence, neurotypical, ADD/ADHD, ASD, why the DSM changed “Asperger’s Syndrome” to “Autism Spectrum Disorder”, usw.

zompist wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 4:53 pm
What I find strange is how eclipsed earlier music seems to be. E.g. I just looked up Frank Sinatra's best album— some at least think it's In The Wee Small Hours, which came out in 1955, just 12 years before Sgt. Pepper.

(I dunno, maybe you're all jazz fanatics. But I feel like there's a huge gulf between 1950s and 1960s pop music.)

And even if you only look at the Beatles' own output, it still moved pretty quickly. They went from stuff that wouldn't have sounded out of place among the very earliest rock-n-rollers to much more experimental stuff within a few years.

(Or at least that's my own impression as someone whose approach to both music and all other arts is basically "I don't know art, but I know what I like".)

Also, pop music that still sounded somewhat like 1950s pop music was still produced for a while in the 1960s. Elsewhere on the web, I once saw someone point out that Petula Clark's Downtown, the Beatles' Help, and the Rolling Stones' Satisfaction were in the charts at the same time. (As someone else commented in that place at that time, "I can't get no satisfaction downtown. Help!")

Raphael wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 4:07 am Also, pop music that still sounded somewhat like 1950s pop music was still produced for a while in the 1960s.

Oh, of course. My parents were born in the 1920s and were still buying music albums in the 1980s. Nothing any of the kids wanted to hear, and they never bought anything resembling a rock album.

Also, well into the 70s, jazz was as pop as movie music got. E.g. James Bond or Pink Panther movies.

zompist wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 5:38 am
Also, well into the 70s, jazz was as pop as movie music got. E.g. James Bond or Pink Panther movies.

Some of the movie and TV music of that period sounds to me like "a 1950s night club band trying very hard to play music that might sound cool to young people in the 1960s, and completely failing at it". For instance, the theme tune of the 1960s German sci-fi TV show Raumpatroille:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfv-wtFfTTE

zompist wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 5:38 am

Raphael wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 4:07 am Also, pop music that still sounded somewhat like 1950s pop music was still produced for a while in the 1960s.

Oh, of course. My parents were born in the 1920s and were still buying music albums in the 1980s. Nothing any of the kids wanted to hear, and they never bought anything resembling a rock album.

Also, well into the 70s, jazz was as pop as movie music got. E.g. James Bond or Pink Panther movies.

Yes. A few years ago, I read a sociological study of jazz concert audiences written in the 1970s. It started by saying that most jazz listeners were young adults with higher education. Well, I thought, This has changed a lost since then. When I attend a jazz concert today, most listeners are well beyond 50, and I am sometimes the youngest person in the room. What did not change, of course, is that most jazz listeners have higher education. Probably, the jazz listeners today are literally the same people who listened to jazz in the 1970s.

zompist wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 5:38 amOh, of course. My parents were born in the 1920s and were still buying music albums in the 1980s. Nothing any of the kids wanted to hear, and they never bought anything resembling a rock album.

Your parents were born that long ago? I always had the impression that you were born in the sixties or seventies.

zompist wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 4:53 pm What I find strange is how eclipsed earlier music seems to be. E.g. I just looked up Frank Sinatra's best album— some at least think it's In The Wee Small Hours, which came out in 1955, just 12 years before Sgt. Pepper.

(I dunno, maybe you're all jazz fanatics. But I feel like there's a huge gulf between 1950s and 1960s pop music.)

I'd say the cut-off is about the mid-50s, when rock'n'roll came along (although, as said by others, pre-rock styles of music could be hits into the 70s). Even though the Elvis and Chuck Berry style of rock sounded somewhat old-fashioned by then, it still was what had inspired the bands that were big in the 70s.

Raphael wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 3:57 pm

alice wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 2:41 pm Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band was (traditionally) released 57 years ago today. This date will soon become like D-Day: nobody alive will be able to remember it.

Does that mean it was now 77 years ago today that Sergeant Pepper told the band to play?

A little more, since "today" is ambiguous: the song was recorded in Feb-Mar 1967, and presumably written some time before then.

malloc wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 9:39 am

zompist wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 5:38 amOh, of course. My parents were born in the 1920s and were still buying music albums in the 1980s. Nothing any of the kids wanted to hear, and they never bought anything resembling a rock album.

Your parents were born that long ago? I always had the impression that you were born in the sixties or seventies.

In the sixties, yes.

zompist wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 4:53 pm

alice wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 2:41 pm Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band was (traditionally) released 57 years ago today. This date will soon become like D-Day: nobody alive will be able to remember it.

What I find strange is how eclipsed earlier music seems to be. E.g. I just looked up Frank Sinatra's best album— some at least think it's In The Wee Small Hours, which came out in 1955, just 12 years before Sgt. Pepper.

(I dunno, maybe you're all jazz fanatics. But I feel like there's a huge gulf between 1950s and 1960s pop music.)

Yeah, there was this huge cultural gap, around my parents generation, give or take a few years (they were born in the 40s). The dividing line seems to be somewhere in the mid 40s... my father (born in the early 40s) was more conservative in his tastes.

Technology probably plays a huge role in there; there's probably a correlation with records getting cheaper and everybody buying transistor radios. (Things may look a bit different in the US... here in France I don't think there was a mass market for transistor radios until the 60s.) Add to that the Baby Boom, and the idea of teenagers as distinct age group.

That makes me wonder what the equivalent is for my generation. I remember music going from 'kind of expensive' to 'basically free' practically overnight.

Ares Land wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 3:51 pm
That makes me wonder what the equivalent is for my generation. I remember music going from 'kind of expensive' to 'basically free' practically overnight.

Now I'm reminded of this discussion, which I started on the old ZBB now more than 7 years ago:

http://www.incatena.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=44601

zompist’s old article on ‘yingzi’ is on the front page of Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40565060

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 2:51 pm zompist’s old article on ‘yingzi’ is on the front page of Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40565060

They must be bored, as that article is 25 years old!

So far the comments are actually pretty good, which is surprising for HN.

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 4:46 am

Ares Land wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 3:51 pm
That makes me wonder what the equivalent is for my generation. I remember music going from 'kind of expensive' to 'basically free' practically overnight.

Now I'm reminded of this discussion, which I started on the old ZBB now more than 7 years ago:

http://www.incatena.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=44601

If only it would load...

I can get it to load, though it's a bit long. The question was

Aren't we long overdue for a fundamentally new music style?

I don't really have an answer to that question

Loads fine for me. Sorry if it doesn't for you.

I'm a bit confused about the age of éclairs as an invention. Wikipedia claims they date to the 19th century. However, I met with my Mom today, and we ate some stuff from a bakery, including éclairs, and she asked why they're called "éclairs", and I said that they're from France, and she said that when she was in France, which was, I think, in the 1960s or 1970s, she didn't come across any.

Raphael wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 7:20 am I'm a bit confused about the age of éclairs as an invention. Wikipedia claims they date to the 19th century. However, I met with my Mom today, and we ate some stuff from a bakery, including éclairs, and she asked why they're called "éclairs", and I said that they're from France, and she said that when she was in France, which was, I think, in the 1960s or 1970s, she didn't come across any.

Might she simply have not noticed? Patisseries here sell a lot of different things, and it’s easy to overlook products you don’t know about.