Zompist Bboard Again

Whoa, today in breaking proto-Basque news: https://english.elpais.com/culture/2022 ... s-ago.html.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:28 pm Whoa, today in breaking proto-Basque news: https://english.elpais.com/culture/2022 ... s-ago.html.

Will a zombified Edo Nyland now rise from his grave?

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:28 pm Whoa, today in breaking proto-Basque news: https://english.elpais.com/culture/2022 ... s-ago.html.

Neat! It seems weird though for the first word to be easily recognized, and none of the rest. What's up with that?

FWIW I compared the script to Iberian, from WWS, and it's a clear match-- it's not like they had to twist anything to come up with the word sorioneku.

We could maybe do a counter-Edo: obviously the word is sо̄ryo-neko, Japanese for 'monk cat'.

zompist wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:54 pm We could maybe do a counter-Edo: obviously the word is sо̄ryo-neko, Japanese for 'monk cat'.

江戸 Nyland, you might say

zompist wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:54 pm

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:28 pm Whoa, today in breaking proto-Basque news: https://english.elpais.com/culture/2022 ... s-ago.html.

Neat! It seems weird though for the first word to be easily recognized, and none of the rest. What's up with that?

I was wondering precisely the same thing. How confident are we that this is actually Vasconic if only a single word matches?

For all its faults, Optimality Theory does actually do a better job of accounting for certain phenomena. In particular, some languages seem to have epenthesis rules roughly of the form "insert the fewest number of vowels possible to eliminate all disallowed clusters", and OT does that very naturally. I'm also not impressed by criticism of OT along the lines that it involves infinite computations, because by manipulating regex it doesn't have to. IMO the real trouble with OT is the same as the problem with SPE-type theories that have only rules and no method of specifying phonotactics: natural language phonology is full of things that look like rules and other things that look like constraints. Positing a theory where everything is rules or everything is constraints is always going to leave some phenomena looking mysterious. In SPE, that's conspiracies (a much discussed issue). In OT, I think it's the fact that the relation between underlying and surface forms is almost always a function, even though a priori it doesn't have to be in a constraint-based theory. Because, shocker, there are rules and constraints! The 70s generative phonologists and/or the American structuralists were right all along. Or something.

bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:47 am

zompist wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:54 pm

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:28 pm Whoa, today in breaking proto-Basque news: https://english.elpais.com/culture/2022 ... s-ago.html.

Neat! It seems weird though for the first word to be easily recognized, and none of the rest. What's up with that?

I was wondering precisely the same thing. How confident are we that this is actually Vasconic if only a single word matches?

Does anyone know if there's some transcription of the text? I can't make much out of that jpeg.

Zju wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:09 pmDoes anyone know if there's some transcription of the text? I can't make much out of that jpeg.

Try the image here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_of_Irulegi.

This one's for underrated Romance languages lovers:

I remember watching that one French comedy that had... I think it was Picard speakers, at least.

Yep. 100% chance that was Bienvenue chez les Chtis -- with ch'ti, another variety of Picard.
(Ch'ti I understand fine; but the page I posted above is difficult for me)

I always love to see stuff in minority languages myself.

Ares Land wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:42 pm Yep. 100% chance that was Bienvenue chez les Chtis -- with ch'ti, another variety of Picard.
(Ch'ti I understand fine; but the page I posted above is difficult for me)

Yep.

Picard's gotta be my favourite Romance language. Glad to see it's getting some support.

Ares Land wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:31 pm This one's for underrated Romance languages lovers:

Apparently this is an annual tradition for this particular newspaper. Any idea how they chose the third Thursday in November?

My first introduction to written Badisch texts of any length came from the Badische Zeitung, which used to run a regular column in dialect. Up until then all I'd ever seen was the occasional sign on the street. Two examples I still remember:

"Bahn un Bus--nur umstiige muesch!"

"Do muesch e mol nieluege!"

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:50 pm

Ares Land wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:31 pm This one's for underrated Romance languages lovers:

Apparently this is an annual tradition for this particular newspaper. Any idea how they chose the third Thursday in November?

My first introduction to written Badisch texts of any length came from the Badische Zeitung, which used to run a regular column in dialect. Up until then all I'd ever seen was the occasional sign on the street. Two examples I still remember:

"Bahn un Bus--nur umstiige muesch!"

"Do muesch e mol nieluege!"

No idea! Regional newspapers usually run a column in dialect here too. I liked the Picard/Ch'ti one in La Voix du Nord; it was a good chance to practice.

Ares Land wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:27 am

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:50 pm

Ares Land wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:31 pm This one's for underrated Romance languages lovers:

Apparently this is an annual tradition for this particular newspaper. Any idea how they chose the third Thursday in November?

My first introduction to written Badisch texts of any length came from the Badische Zeitung, which used to run a regular column in dialect. Up until then all I'd ever seen was the occasional sign on the street. Two examples I still remember:

"Bahn un Bus--nur umstiige muesch!"

"Do muesch e mol nieluege!"

No idea! Regional newspapers usually run a column in dialect here too. I liked the Picard/Ch'ti one in La Voix du Nord; it was a good chance to practice.

Too bad the only Anglic varieties that have their own written language of any consequence are Scots varieties...

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 10:01 amToo bad the only Anglic varieties that have their own written language of any consequence are Scots varieties...

Aren't you forgetting AAVE?

Unless I'm very much mistaken, that's still primarily a spoken language.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:10 pm Unless I'm very much mistaken, that's still primarily a spoken language.

Primarily, yes, but you can see a range of representations, from mere nods to the vernacular to ad hoc attempts to represent it directly. Rap lyrics are generally written with AAVE syntax but standard spelling. (With some variants to be cool.)