Probably, because passives are a common (-ish???) path to ergativity.akamchinjir wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:10 amAnd a very quick google tells me that Hindi gets its ergativity from passives. (I wonder if that pattern---passives giving rise to ergativity---seems odder than it really is to some of us who've been shaped by Strunk&Whitey rhetorical traditions.)
I think the English aversion to passives (due to style guides, etc.) contributes to people having difficulty when they try to understand ergativity. Couple that with "passive voice" being defined by how the English passive works (detransitivization) makes it confusing when you have a language with a transitive, default voice that has a "passive viewpoint" (for lack of better term), where the patient is equal or higher in salience vs. the agent. I think it would be better if voice was defined more strictly in terms of salience, focus, & subjecthood rather than the morphosyntactic features it has, or there was a good term for this.
Not quite. There's a lot more that would probably need to happen. The morphology could be viewed as vaguely ergative (with "by" or an instrumental/genitive marker/preposition being your "ergative case"), but voice markers, pronoun alignment, etc. might still show it as accusative. Syntax & semantics could still be accusative as well, where the thematic role of the subject of intransitives would need to be the patient more often than not.
Nope. See comments above.
That's a path to ergativity, yes. As above, ergative language can develop from passives of accusative languages. I think there's a line that needs to be crossed where the less-marked active voice becomes ungrammatical, and a separate antipassive voice is derived.akamchinjir wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:22 am It could work, I think. Start with something like this:
Sal[NOM] was-eating[ACTIVE] the-rice[ACC]
by-Sal[INST] was-eaten[PASSIVE] the-rice[NOM]
Reinterpret NOM → ABS, INST → ERG, ACC → OBL, ACTIVE → ANTIPASSIVE, PASSIVE → ACTIVE:
Sal[ABS] was-eating[ANTIPASSIVE] the-rice[OBL]
by-Sal[ERG] was-eaten[ACTIVE] the-rice[ABS]
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Here's my 1st chance on the new ZBB forum to link my favoritest linguistic article of all time:
Typology of Ergativity by William McGregor
If you're confused by ergativity, read & study that article, and it will be much more clear.
If you THINK you understand ergativity, read & study that article, and you'll realize you didn't understand it quite as well as you do now.
If you understand ergativity, read & study that article, and enjoy.