Re: Conlangjugator
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:29 am
also sometimes the spelling difference reflects certain morphophonemic or other contexts that block the change
Alas, the list of all SCAs that have been created is longer than the list of particles in our galaxy...
Personally I'm not surprised. If you wield a programming hammer, everything looks like a program nail.
I'm not sure if you're suggesting this, but hardcoding a phonological model is rather restricting - what if a user wants to make a distinction you didn't account for, or has a conlang in which implosives and voiced stops behave the same way?
The SCA model isn't necessarily either-or. If the program encounters a featureless rule, it could convert the features to segments, apply the rule, and convert everything back to features in the same way it parsed the input. While it's true that working with features is closer to how sound changes work, it has more limited use. Text-based SCA can change spelling to pronunciation, one spelling to another, one writing to another, broad pronunciation to narrow pronunciation, among other things. While it's true these aren't exactly sound changes, they are close in nature and a conlanger is likely to want to make use of them, so it makes sense to have the same grammar and tools for everything.chris_notts wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:57 pmI mean that they have different semantics. You need to pick one. A good programming or scripting language has simple consistent semantics, but some features naturally fit with a different underlying model of the problem.
As somebody else already pointed out, this would only lead to xkcd 927. What you can do is define a standard and let developers adhere to it if they will.
This is the problem. While part of me would welcome an attempt to specify and ultimately implement the One True SCA, I also recognise that not enough people actually use SCA's for standardisation to be really worth the effort. A comparison of the most popular ones would be interesting, if nothing else; more useful would be a survey of who uses which one and why. But, again, do enough people actually use SCA's for this to generate enough useful data?
Is there actually any SCA other than both of Zompist's that is used by more than a couple of users?alice wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:57 pmThis is the problem. While part of me would welcome an attempt to specify and ultimately implement the One True SCA, I also recognise that not enough people actually use SCA's for standardisation to be really worth the effort. A comparison of the most popular ones would be interesting, if nothing else; more useful would be a survey of who uses which one and why. But, again, do enough people actually use SCA's for this to generate enough useful data?
I know that my exSCA allows you to use syllable boundaries in sound changes. Basically, you give it a regular expression which matches each syllable; then if you add an x modifier to a sound change, exSCA will insert a user-defined character between each syllable before the change is applied, and will delete it afterwards. (Unfortunately there isn't any 'formal' documentation yet, but at the moment reading the linked thread will give a fairly complete overview of all the features.)Ælfwine wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:27 pm Honestly, I'd be happy when a sound change applier that adheres to syllabic or stress based developments comes out.
While it can be mimicked, it often creates more problems (and work necessary). For example, if I use a character like (ˈ) then I also have to define when that character causes changes and when it can be ignored.
Cool beans, I'll check it out then.bradrn wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:33 pmI know that my exSCA allows you to use syllable boundaries in sound changes. Basically, you give it a regular expression which matches each syllable; then if you add an x modifier to a sound change, exSCA will insert a user-defined character between each syllable before the change is applied, and will delete it afterwards. (Unfortunately there isn't any 'formal' documentation yet, but at the moment reading the linked thread will give a fairly complete overview of all the features.)Ælfwine wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:27 pm Honestly, I'd be happy when a sound change applier that adheres to syllabic or stress based developments comes out.
While it can be mimicked, it often creates more problems (and work necessary). For example, if I use a character like (ˈ) then I also have to define when that character causes changes and when it can be ignored.
This looks much nicer now! I'm particularly impressed with the template system (now that I can figure out how to use it) - it's much nicer than the one in my own SCA.