Zompist Bboard Again

Vijay wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:43 am

Ryan of Tinellb wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:30 pm How are the fricatives in Basque/Euskara pronounced? Or, which of <s> and <z> is most similar to the <s> in your English idiolect?

I don't think anybody ever answered this question! Maybe pointless now, but just in case:

Basque <z> is the closest to my English <s>. Basque <s> probably sounds postalveolar to a lot of people but is really just [s] with the tongue tip much closer to the alveolar ridge.

In my case, I use my usual /s/ for <z> and the one I use when I speak Castilian for <s>. (My Ecuatorian friend used to mock me for until he heard actual speakers from Spain use it.)

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:29 pm

Xwtek wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:50 am How to pronounce alveolar flap next to alveolar approximant. This consonant cluster appears in American English. I can pronounce either just fine. However, when the two are together, it becomes a difficult cluster. For example: party is pronounced [pʰɑːɹɾi]

it's easy. the tip of the tongue makes contact at the back of the alveolar ridge and moves down toward the teeth. as opposed to the normal tap, which is articulated near the front of the alveolar ridge

So, the tap is articulated in a position that's more front than normal, against the teeth. Interesting. I do find it easier that way at least.

MacAnDàil wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:43 pmI would add that AFAICT most varieties of English do not in fact pronounce [æ] but [a]. The phonetics lab archive seems intresting though; I'll go on when I'm on a more advanced computer.

Regarding this topic, for what it's worth, I notice Korean and Taiwanese EFL students often map /æ/ to their own /e/, which is mid [e] in Korean (assuming a merger with /ɛ/) and something like [ɛ] or mid [e] for the Taiwanese. While English /ɑ/ is mapped to their /a/. And I don't think this is because all their teachers have the northern cities vowel shift...

(Spanish speakers tend to use Spanish /a/ for English /æ/, but I'm not sure if it's an artifact of spelling in their case, since /æ/ is spelled <a>, and of course that will be associated with the Spanish /a/. Could be... Maybe Koreans and the Taiwanese are a better example of a population not so contaminated by existing spelling practices. To them, English /æ/ is not so obviously 아 /a/ or ㄚ /a/.)

From my experience, Germans use [ɛ] whereas Indonesians use [a] more often.

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:01 pm

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:29 pm

Xwtek wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:50 am How to pronounce alveolar flap next to alveolar approximant. This consonant cluster appears in American English. I can pronounce either just fine. However, when the two are together, it becomes a difficult cluster. For example: party is pronounced [pʰɑːɹɾi]

it's easy. the tip of the tongue makes contact at the back of the alveolar ridge and moves down toward the teeth. as opposed to the normal tap, which is articulated near the front of the alveolar ridge

So, the tap is articulated in a position that's more front than normal, against the teeth. Interesting. I do find it easier that way at least.

After /r/ it's more back than normal - transcribing "party" with [-ɻɽ-] wouldn't be unreasonable. "Back of the alveolar ridge" is probably a totally incorrect description - the point of contact is further back than it is for /tʃ/.

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:09 pmAfter /r/ it's more back than normal - transcribing "party" with [-ɻɽ-] wouldn't be unreasonable. "Back of the alveolar ridge" is probably a totally incorrect description - the point of contact is further back than it is for /tʃ/.

Ah, then that's not how I've been saying it. Somehow I find [ɻɾ] with a very dental [ɾ] easier, moving the tongue forwards...