Zompist Bboard Again

Vijay wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:33 am

Pabappa wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:14 am There's a language in Taiwan that has a verbal infix that means "spearing". I'll look it up later for more details. It might have been an infix on something else.

The language you're thinking of wouldn't happen to be Puyuma, would it?

Anything is possible, but the Wikipedia article for Puyuma shows it as a fairly humble language grammatically, and my memory is of reading through various Formosan languages late at night on Wikipedia. It's possible I read it somewhere else, but I usually don't click academic articles when I'm on my phone late at night .... it could still be that Puyuma does have this type of affix, though, since if language in the area has it, it could be an areal feature ... and that Wikipedia isnt listing it now becuase they consider it to be a content morpheme and not an inflection.

Also, of course, Formosan languages aren't Sinitic. They are Austronesian.

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:23 am Also, of course, Formosan languages aren't Sinitic. They are Austronesian.

Yes, of course, but despite the name of the thread, dhok said from the outset that we should feel free to derail it, and I'm pretty sure no Sinitic language has infixes.

Vijay wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:47 am

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:23 am Also, of course, Formosan languages aren't Sinitic. They are Austronesian.

Yes, of course, but despite the name of the thread, dhok said from the outset that we should feel free to derail it, and I'm pretty sure no Sinitic language has infixes.

Pingding Mandarin

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:52 pm

Vijay wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:47 am

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:23 am Also, of course, Formosan languages aren't Sinitic. They are Austronesian.

Yes, of course, but despite the name of the thread, dhok said from the outset that we should feel free to derail it, and I'm pretty sure no Sinitic language has infixes.

Pingding Mandarin

I stand corrected!

Now, I'm curious as to whether there really is a language (EDIT: not just in Taiwan but anywhere in the world) with an infix meaning 'spearing'.

I

Vijay wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:01 pm Now, I'm curious as to whether there really is a language (EDIT: not just in Taiwan but anywhere in the world) with an infix meaning 'spearing'.

I find it coimpletely plausible that such a language exists on Taiwan specifically. When back home, I'll rummage through some dictionaries.

...and I could not find anything of the sort in the Formosan grammars and dictionaries. Still it is not entirely implausible.

Thanks for trying anyway!

I'm very curious about Southern Wu, especially Wenzhounese, since it's apparently (one of?) the hardest Sinitic variety(/ies?)/Chinese dialect(s?) for other Chinese to understand. In case anyone else is interested, here's a resource for learning Wenzhounese through Mandarin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC1cx_2deXY. Here's a similar (probably much worse in terms of accuracy tbh) one for Qingtianese: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKpVDo6XAdk. Also interested in Teochew because my next door neighbors speak it natively, so here's a neat YouTube channel I found for that: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUcGB7 ... YYaeaY9stA. This one has a few dramas and songs in Teochew: https://www.youtube.com/user/chaoshannang.

I'm curious about Bai and Tujia as well, but all I know about them is one song in each.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVxDfSV8HpA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jL8W4hDbNk

A very small question about Mandarin: I've heard that the 3rd tone is often realized with creaky voice. Have there been any studies which examine the degree to which the distinction between the 3rd tone from others relies on voice vs. pitch? For example, if one pronounced the pitch contour of the 2nd tone with creaky voice, would it be more readily interpreted as a 2nd tone or a 3rd tone?

dɮ the phoneme wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:24 am A very small question about Mandarin: I've heard that the 3rd tone is often realized with creaky voice. Have there been any studies which examine the degree to which the distinction between the 3rd tone from others relies on voice vs. pitch? For example, if one pronounced the pitch contour of the 2nd tone with creaky voice, would it be more readily interpreted as a 2nd tone or a 3rd tone?

https://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu/b ... vanway.pdf

Not Sinitic, but (again, dhok said feel free to derail, and it is at least Sino-Tibetan, soooo) has anybody ever actually heard creaky voice in Burmese? IIRC I don't think I've ever managed to actually hear it, not even in the theoretically creaky tone. FWIR vowels with that tone just sound high-pitched and short to me.