Zompist Bboard Again

Karch wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:37 am a ax b d dz e ee f ff g h hh hhy hy i ii j k kk l m n o oo p pp s sh ss ssh t tj ts tt tts u uu v y z · ʻ ◌̣

/p pː b θ tː d ts tːs dz ʨ ʥ x kː ɡ ʔ/ <p pp b t tt d ts tts dz tj dj k kk g ·>
/ɸ ɸː β s sː z ʂ ʂː ɕ ɕː ħ ħː/ <f ff v s ss z sh ssh hy hhy h hh>
/m n ɭ j/ <m n l y>

/i u ɛ ɔ ɑ ə/ <i u e o ax a>
/iː uː æː ɒː/ <ii uu ee oo>

Karch wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:37 am/ˀC ʔV/ <C̣ Ṿ>

bradrn wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:48 pm(As for Qwynegold’s romanization, I don’t think I’d be able to come up with anything more sensible than Karch’s solution.

Qwynegold wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:19 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:02 amꞶ

Dafuq?

Knit Tie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:07 pm

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:51 am

Knit Tie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:06 am
Those are actually supposed to be the same exact language :V. I've included both romanisations as a puzzle of sorts to help people deduce the phonology.

Oh! Well, in that case, I obviously got it wrong. But I can’t see the solution… could you tell me what it was?

Anyway, here’s another challenge:

⟨a b c̣ c d e f g gö h ȟ ḥ ɛ i ĩ j k ḳ kö ḳö l m n o p ṗ q q̇ r s š t ṭ u ü v w x xö x̌ y z ž⟩

(Hint: Any letters which look like they have been placed ‘out of order’ are placed there deliberately…)

The solution's quite simple, actually: voiced stops b d̪ d ɖ g simply lenite to β ɾ̪ ɾˠ ɽ ɣ in most environments. What remains are two alspirated-lenis true plosive series and voicing contrast in fricatives.

Anyway, your challenge!

/a b ts’ ts d e f g gʷ h ʕ ħ ɛ i ɪ dʒ k k’ kʷ kʷ’ l m n o p p’ q q’ r s ʃ t t’ u y v w x xʷ ɣ j z ʒ/

How’s that?

Knit Tie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:11 pm

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:51 am

Oh! Well, in that case, I obviously got it wrong. But I can’t see the solution… could you tell me what it was?

Anyway, here’s another challenge:

⟨a b c̣ c d e f g gö h ȟ ḥ ɛ i ĩ j k ḳ kö ḳö l m n o p ṗ q q̇ r s š t ṭ u ü v w x xö x̌ y z ž⟩

(Hint: Any letters which look like they have been placed ‘out of order’ are placed there deliberately…)

The solution's quite simple, actually: voiced stops b d̪ d ɖ g simply lenite to β ɾ̪ ɾˠ ɽ ɣ in most environments. What remains are two alspirated-lenis true plosive series and voicing contrast in fricatives.

Anyway, your challenge!

/a b ts’ ts d e f g gʷ h ʕ ħ ɛ i ɪ dʒ k k’ kʷ kʷ’ l m n o p p’ q q’ r s ʃ t t’ u y v w x xʷ ɣ j z ʒ/

How’s that?

• ⟨h ȟ⟩ were meant to be /ɣ ʁ/; ⟨x̌⟩ was /χ/ (as in Americanist tradition)
• ⟨ɛ⟩ was actually consonantal /ʕ/ (this was what the ‘out of order’ hint was referring to)
• ⟨p t c k q ṗ ṭ c̣ ḳ q̇⟩ were meant to be aspirated and unaspirated rather than pulmonic and ejective.
• ⟨c⟩ was meant to be /tʃ/ rather than /ts/
• ⟨ü⟩ was meant to be /ʉ/ rather than /y/

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:37 pm

Qwynegold wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:19 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:02 amꞶ

Dafuq?

Latin letter omega. It’s one of my favourite letters, but no-one seems to use it. (Maybe because it’s so obscure that even dedicated Unicode fonts don’t support it?)

Qwynegold wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:17 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:37 pm

Qwynegold wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:19 am

Dafuq?

Latin letter omega. It’s one of my favourite letters, but no-one seems to use it. (Maybe because it’s so obscure that even dedicated Unicode fonts don’t support it?)

Huh. I can see the letter just fine, but when I look at Deja Vu Sans in Character Map, that code point (U+A7B6, U+A7B7) is not included. And I have no font with a wider range.

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:27 pm Birdish:

/m n ɲ ŋ/ ⟨m n ń ŋ⟩
/p t k ʔ/ ⟨p t k ʻ⟩
/b d g/ ⟨b d g⟩
/ts tʃ dz dʒ/ ⟨c ç ʒ j⟩
/f s ʃ χ h/ ⟨f s x ȟ h⟩
/v z ʒ ʁ/ ⟨v z ĵ ǧ⟩
/r j w l ʎ/ ⟨r y w l ľ⟩

/a e ə ɤ o i ɯ u/ ⟨a e ə ŏ o i ŭ u⟩
/eː oː ɯː uː/ ⟨é ó û ú⟩
/r̩ l̩/ ⟨ř ĺ⟩

Birdlang wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:54 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:27 pm Birdish:

/m n ɲ ŋ/ ⟨m n ń ŋ⟩
/p t k ʔ/ ⟨p t k ʻ⟩
/b d g/ ⟨b d g⟩
/ts tʃ dz dʒ/ ⟨c ç ʒ j⟩
/f s ʃ χ h/ ⟨f s x ȟ h⟩
/v z ʒ ʁ/ ⟨v z ĵ ǧ⟩
/r j w l ʎ/ ⟨r y w l ľ⟩

/a e ə ɤ o i ɯ u/ ⟨a e ə ŏ o i ŭ u⟩
/eː oː ɯː uː/ ⟨é ó û ú⟩
/r̩ l̩/ ⟨ř ĺ⟩

Got some of it right
Actually the nasals and stops are right other than the affricates, the others are
/ʦ ʧ ʣ ʤ/ ç c ʒ ĵ
/ɸ β s z ʃ ʒ x~h ɣ/ f v s z x j ȟ ǧ
/ɾ r j ɰ l ʎ/ r ř y w l ĺ
/ɮ/ ľ

Will do the vowels later.

• I swapped ⟨c⟩ and ⟨ç⟩, and ⟨j⟩ and ⟨ĵ⟩
• I did /ʁ/ instead of /ɣ/ for ⟨ǧ⟩ (but there’s not much difference between those two anyway)
• I did /w/ instead of /ɰ/ for ⟨w⟩, and /ɸ β/ instead of /f v/ for ⟨f v⟩, which I think were reasonable errors to make
• I had absolutely no idea what to do with ⟨ř ĺ⟩, so I just made them into syllabic consonants; those were actually /r ʎ/, with ⟨r ľ⟩ being /ɾ ɮ/. I don’t think I could reasonably have figured out that last one, but I really should have figured out ⟨r ř⟩.

bradrn wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:07 am

Birdlang wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:54 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:27 pm Birdish:

/m n ɲ ŋ/ ⟨m n ń ŋ⟩
/p t k ʔ/ ⟨p t k ʻ⟩
/b d g/ ⟨b d g⟩
/ts tʃ dz dʒ/ ⟨c ç ʒ j⟩
/f s ʃ χ h/ ⟨f s x ȟ h⟩
/v z ʒ ʁ/ ⟨v z ĵ ǧ⟩
/r j w l ʎ/ ⟨r y w l ľ⟩

/a e ə ɤ o i ɯ u/ ⟨a e ə ŏ o i ŭ u⟩
/eː oː ɯː uː/ ⟨é ó û ú⟩
/r̩ l̩/ ⟨ř ĺ⟩

Got some of it right
Actually the nasals and stops are right other than the affricates, the others are
/ʦ ʧ ʣ ʤ/ ç c ʒ ĵ
/ɸ β s z ʃ ʒ x~h ɣ/ f v s z x j ȟ ǧ
/ɾ r j ɰ l ʎ/ r ř y w l ĺ
/ɮ/ ľ

Will do the vowels later.

Wow, it looks like I got more right than I expected! And I even got the most difficult bits mostly correct. (I struggled particularly with the afficates.) It looks like:

• I swapped ⟨c⟩ and ⟨ç⟩, and ⟨j⟩ and ⟨ĵ⟩
• I did /ʁ/ instead of /ɣ/ for ⟨ǧ⟩ (but there’s not much difference between those two anyway)
• I did /w/ instead of /ɰ/ for ⟨w⟩, and /ɸ β/ instead of /f v/ for ⟨f v⟩, which I think were reasonable errors to make
• I had absolutely no idea what to do with ⟨ř ĺ⟩, so I just made them into syllabic consonants; those were actually /r ʎ/, with ⟨r ľ⟩ being /ɾ ɮ/. I don’t think I could reasonably have figured out that last one, but I really should have figured out ⟨r ř⟩.

Anyway, thanks for telling me how I did; this is definitely one of the most interesting romanization challenges (either normal or reverse) I’ve done on this board! Now I want to know how I did on the vowels — I found those fairly tricky as well…

Xwtek wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:31 am The orthography is far from phonemic, as it distiguishes a certainly phonemic.

bradrn wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:08 pm

Xwtek wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:31 am The orthography is far from phonemic, as it distiguishes a certainly phonemic.

I don’t understand this sentence. What do you mean by ‘it distinguishes a certainly phonemic’? Specifically, if it helps you, the problem is that you are using an adjective (namely ‘phonemic’) as if it were a noun, and then you’re modifying it with ‘certainly’, which is an adverb which cannot modify nouns.

Birdlang wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:27 pm Another orthography
This time for Pigeonese
a á b ƀ c č ȼ d đ e é ē ḗ f g ɣ ǥ h ḫ ḥ ḩ i í j ǰ k ꝁ l ľ ł m n ň ŋ o ó ō ṓ ơ ớ p ꝑ q ꝗ r ř ṟ s š ꞩ ṡ t ŧ u ú ư ứ v ʋ w ẃ ẇ ꟃ y ý ẏ z ž ƶ ʔ
Sorry for the kitchen sink, it has a pretty big phonology.
Edit: added one.

More: show

1. What does the line across the stops mean?
2. What do ⟨ḩ⟩ and ⟨ꟃ⟩ mean?