Zompist Bboard Again

bradrn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:11 am

Frislander wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:25 am Also if you want papers I would suggest the classic Mithun The Evolution of Noun Incorporation just because it has lots of diverse examples.

I can recommend that as well! I read it a few days ago and found it really interesting — the only reason why I didn’t recommend it then was because I had the impression that Vardelm already read it.

Yep, I read through that (need to do so again!) as well as the typology paper by Mattissen (linked above). Both papers are fantastic for learning about polysynthesis! The Mithun paper did have many good examples, and I'm looking to expand on that. However, what I'm finding is that many of the grammars for languages in her examples don't have much or any description of their incorporation. I'd like to see more details, such as location of the incorporated nouns relative to the verb root & other types of affixes, how it affects other morphology & syntax (such as detransitivizing the verb), interplay with voice, semantics & pragmatics of incorporated vs non-incorporated nouns, etc.

Vardelm wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:36 am However, what I'm finding is that many of the grammars for languages in her examples don't have much or any description of their incorporation. I'd like to see more details, such as location of the incorporated nouns relative to the verb root & other types of affixes, how it affects other morphology & syntax (such as detransitivizing the verb), interplay with voice, semantics & pragmatics of incorporated vs non-incorporated nouns, etc.

I had a look in the Grammar Pile (always an excellent resource!), and managed to find two books which may be useful: Dunn’s Chukchi grammar, and Hopkins’s ‘Topics in Mohawk Grammar’. Both have a chapter dedicated specifically to noun incorporation.

bradrn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:15 am I had a look in the Grammar Pile (always an excellent resource!), and managed to find two books which may be useful: Dunn’s Chukchi grammar, and Hopkins’s ‘Topics in Mohawk Grammar’. Both have a chapter dedicated specifically to noun incorporation.

I've been looking through that site some (it's awesome!) and missed the Hopkin's doc. That looks really promising! In conjunction with the Bonvillain grammar (which is also there) I should be set on Mohawk. I'll take a look at the Chukchi grammar for sure, and I'll still be poking around some of the other directories over the next several days. Thanks!

Any other recommendations still welcome!

Vardelm wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:29 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:15 am I had a look in the Grammar Pile (always an excellent resource!), and managed to find two books which may be useful: Dunn’s Chukchi grammar, and Hopkins’s ‘Topics in Mohawk Grammar’. Both have a chapter dedicated specifically to noun incorporation.

I've been looking through that site some (it's awesome!) and missed the Hopkin's doc. That looks really promising! In conjunction with the Bonvillain grammar (which is also there) I should be set on Mohawk. I'll take a look at the Chukchi grammar for sure, and I'll still be poking around some of the other directories over the next several days. Thanks!

Any other recommendations still welcome!

You’re welcome!

Ser wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:36 pm But then I wonder why there isn't distinct morphology to disambiguate different types of incorporation... Surely you can still justify you have incorporation even if you have multiple incorporation types, say, if the aspect marking consistently appears on the other side with strict order, phonetically unstressed for good measure (1SG ITER-PRF-mother-hit my brother).

Apparently you CAN have distinct morphology to disambiguate. I'm looking through Hopkins’s "Topics in Mohawk Grammar" and there's this bit:

Hopkins wrote:3.1.3 The Verb Base

The verb base consists of the verb stem plus (optional) case suffixes and/or (optional) incorporated noun stem, and/or (optional) reflexive or semireflexive, and/or (optional) purposive formative. The verb stem, in turn, consists of either a verb root or a verb root plus derivational suffixes.

Case Suffixes and Purposive. As discussed in the previous section, case (inflectional) affixes--the dative, the causative, and the instrumental--interact with the pronominal prefix to mark case roles of the participants.

(Example 3.34)

uwari

Mary

wa-a?-shako-nuhs-a-hninu-?s-?

fact-H-M/F-house-J-house-DAT-PUNC

"He bought a house for Mary".

(Page 164 of the PDF)