Zompist Bboard Again

You can always say /v/ doesn't count as a fricative in every situation. Lots of languages treat /v/ as an approximant.

Emily wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:09 amwow rude

joking of course, i always worry that doesn't come across

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:48 am You can always say /v/ doesn't count as a fricative in every situation. Lots of languages treat /v/ as an approximant.

hmm, that's a pretty good workaround! i'll give it a try, thank you

You can also potentially have /v/ realised as [w] after other fricatives (or consonants generally), or realised as labialisation or labiopalatalisation, depending on the environment.

an attempt to imagine the name of my conlang on a tablet...

This:



Had the day off work so I redid CT cuneiform again.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 12:15 pm You can also potentially have /v/ realised as [w] after other fricatives (or consonants generally), or realised as labialisation or labiopalatalisation, depending on the environment.

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Emily wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 9:57 am

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 12:15 pm You can also potentially have /v/ realised as [w] after other fricatives (or consonants generally), or realised as labialisation or labiopalatalisation, depending on the environment.

Screenshot_20220225-075138.jpg[

Uhh, what?

clearly that joke made a lot more sense in my head lol, sorry

In other news, I did more fiction today. I have a creation myth-esque thing now.

still haven't gotten to superlatives yet, but i reordered and renumbered the noun declensions (in all three stages of the language, not just the modern one that's in the writeup), changed some forms, moved some nouns around, etc. i also sat down and figured out what every single irregular noun was, grouped them according to pattern, and made a separate writeup just for them (and of course made some fussy little changes at the same time). busy!

dɮ the phoneme wrote:Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:38 pm What have you accomplished today?

Very little, but more than usual.

I made four conscripts for Spanish.

Largely because after finishing designing one, I felt very dissatisfied with it, but I still had energy to try making another different one...

When making conscripts, I have a hard time balancing 1) the distinctiveness of characters from each other, 2) the ease of learning and 3) my own aesthetic feelings. Often I feel like I can only choose one or two out of the three.

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 5:48 pm I made four conscripts for Spanish.

Interesting! Could you show them to us?

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:07 pm

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 5:48 pmI made four conscripts for Spanish.

Interesting! Could you show them to us?

Didn't I say I felt very dissatisfied with them? Well, I guess I could share this one. It's inspired from 'Phags-pa and Korean.



Next to each phoneme, the top letter is the regular form, and the bottom one is the "capital" one (or word-initial one), used at the beginning of every word (not just every normally capitalized noun in Spanish). Which is necessary as every syllable is written separately, surrounded by spaces. Stress is not distinguished. No word-initial form of /ɾ/ exists as /ɾ/ doesn't appear word-initially in Spanish.

A short phrase in it:

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:29 pm

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:07 pm

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 5:48 pmI made four conscripts for Spanish.

Interesting! Could you show them to us?

Didn't I say I felt very dissatisfied with them? Well, I guess I could share this one. It's inspired from 'Phags-pa and Korean.

I actually quite like it — not what I would have expected for Spanish, but pretty all the same.

In exchange, when I get some time tomorrow I will post some of my own dissatisfactory conscripts. (I have one for Korean, and one for Zhuang.)

bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:24 am

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:29 pm

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:07 pm
Interesting! Could you show them to us?

Didn't I say I felt very dissatisfied with them? Well, I guess I could share this one. It's inspired from 'Phags-pa and Korean.

I actually quite like it — not what I would have expected for Spanish, but pretty all the same.

Seconded!

As promised, my own conscripts for natlangs. First, Korean (not really a conscript, as it’s mostly just a linearised version of Hangeul, heavily inspired by Oesol’s Disassembled Hangul as seen at e.g. https://github.com/Tzetachi/Oesol-Serif-deprecated; the image has been postprocessed to clean it up a bit):



And Zhuang:



The latter I’m particularly proud of. It went through several iterations — here’s some experimentation with stylistic variation using a slightly earlier one (compare the transcription of Vahcueng below and above): [minimised for space]
You can see the point where I first noticed that Modern-style vertical stress would work well with this writing system.

finished my study of noun and adjective declension combinations in modern gothic to see where there is ambiguity, and it turns out the answer is "kind of all over the place". so i'll keep the various endings but i'll probably need to have stricter word order than i was originally planning, and i miiiiiiight end up having to have articles, which i've been hoping not to :/

Emily wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:24 pm finished my study of noun and adjective declension combinations in modern gothic to see where there is ambiguity, and it turns out the answer is "kind of all over the place". so i'll keep the various endings but i'll probably need to have stricter word order than i was originally planning, and i miiiiiiight end up having to have articles, which i've been hoping not to :/

Ambiguity is a part of language. Conlangers often try too hard to avoid it and e.g. to have distinctive case endings for every case, etc. Look at Latin - the o- and the a-stems both (i.e. the most frequent stems) have 10 possible case / number combinations (not counting vocative and locative), but only 7 distinct endings, without taking recourse to strict word order or articles.

hwhatting wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 3:16 am

Emily wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:24 pm finished my study of noun and adjective declension combinations in modern gothic to see where there is ambiguity, and it turns out the answer is "kind of all over the place". so i'll keep the various endings but i'll probably need to have stricter word order than i was originally planning, and i miiiiiiight end up having to have articles, which i've been hoping not to :/

Ambiguity is a part of language. Conlangers often try too hard to avoid it and e.g. to have distinctive case endings for every case, etc. Look at Latin - the o- and the a-stems both (i.e. the most frequent stems) have 10 possible case / number combinations (not counting vocative and locative), but only 7 distinct endings, without taking recourse to strict word order or articles.

oh, for sure, and i'm fine with the ambiguity in (say) the noun endings alone. but the other thing about ambiguities (at least consistent, pervasive ambiguities) is that they tend to either resolve themselves in some other ways (such as the english 2nd person pronoun developing different plural forms in different dialects), or else just give up on the original distinction (such as case endings in western romance, or for that matter in english). so if the majority of noun phrases are ambiguous on whether the are definite or indefinite, we would expect the language to either find some other way to indicate definiteness (whether syntactically, the introduction of definite and/or indefinite articles, or some new affix or other morphological method) or else give up on indicating definiteness entirely