Zompist Bboard Again

Bhutan has a political party named after a metaphysical concept: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhutan_Tendrel_Party

A Tarot reading: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V8tRt2 ... p=drivesdk

Something completely random that I'm currently wondering about: has it ever happened, anywhere, at any time, that literal shit actually hit a fan?

Raphael wrote: ↑Sun Mar 23, 2025 5:22 am Something completely random that I'm currently wondering about: has it ever happened, anywhere, at any time, that literal shit actually hit a fan?

I was going to say they tried it on MythBusters, except that was a blue substitute so they could see how it scattered and wasn’t the real thing. They did use literal dung to bust “you can’t shine shit” (or as they put it, “you can’t polish poop”).

Man in Space wrote: ↑Sun Mar 23, 2025 6:03 am I was going to say they tried it on MythBusters, except that was a blue substitute so they could see how it scattered and wasn’t the real thing. They did use literal dung to bust “you can’t shine shit” (or as they put it, “you can’t polish poop”).

Ah, thank you.

Does anyone know what the character limit for ZBB posts is?

Raphael wrote: ↑Sun Mar 23, 2025 12:43 pm Does anyone know what the character limit for ZBB posts is?

60,000 characters, according to the admin pages.

zompist wrote: ↑Sun Mar 23, 2025 2:32 pm

Raphael wrote: ↑Sun Mar 23, 2025 12:43 pm Does anyone know what the character limit for ZBB posts is?

60,000 characters, according to the admin pages.

Thank you!

zompist wrote: ↑Sun Mar 23, 2025 2:32 pm

Raphael wrote: ↑Sun Mar 23, 2025 12:43 pm Does anyone know what the character limit for ZBB posts is?

60,000 characters, according to the admin pages.

Why that and not a nice even 65536?

Unrelated: has anyone ever done serious research into what might be called the "experience paradox"?

What I mean is this: few people would like the idea of being treated by inexperienced doctors when they're ill. But if inexperienced doctors don't get to treat patients, how is the next generation of doctors supposed to become experienced? And a similar logic probably applies in many other professions, too.

So, have, perhaps, any academics done serious work on that problem? Is there, perhaps, a formal name for it, other than "experience paradox"? And has anyone come up with a good way to resolve the paradox? (There is, of course, the option of having inexperienced professionals work with the poorer patients/customers/clients, while the more experienced professionals work with the wealthier patients/customers/clients, and I suspect that that is how it's often done, but I wouldn't describe that as a good approach to the whole matter.)

I can't help you with your question, but it reminds me of my experience with the book publishing industry: they won't publish your book unless you are already a successful writer who has shown to sell many books. So how people get their first book published? (Answer: there are "book on demand" platforms which accept freshling writers. Be careful not to fall victim to a vanity press, though.)

Raphael wrote: ↑Sun Mar 23, 2025 4:58 pm Unrelated: has anyone ever done serious research into what might be called the "experience paradox"?

What I mean is this: few people would like the idea of being treated by inexperienced doctors when they're ill. But if inexperienced doctors don't get to treat patients, how is the next generation of doctors supposed to become experienced? And a similar logic probably applies in many other professions, too.

So, have, perhaps, any academics done serious work on that problem? Is there, perhaps, a formal name for it, other than "experience paradox"? And has anyone come up with a good way to resolve the paradox?

I don't know if there's a name for it, but I'd say it's well known, especially by job seekers.

The usual solution is mentoring, but that create a freeloading problem: some organizations have to train new people, and other organizations can take advantage of their work without doing any mentoring themselves.

Raphael wrote: ↑Sun Mar 23, 2025 4:58 pm Unrelated: has anyone ever done serious research into what might be called the "experience paradox"?

What I mean is this: few people would like the idea of being treated by inexperienced doctors when they're ill. But if inexperienced doctors don't get to treat patients, how is the next generation of doctors supposed to become experienced? And a similar logic probably applies in many other professions, too.

i know my medical doctors will sometimes bring an intern or what i suppose "theater kids" call an understudy, in to observe what the doctor/nurse and the patient do over the course of the visit. i suppose this helps with the experience...the rest i guess is college and post-grad work.

zompist wrote: ↑Sun Mar 23, 2025 6:10 pm

Raphael wrote: ↑Sun Mar 23, 2025 4:58 pm Unrelated: has anyone ever done serious research into what might be called the "experience paradox"?

What I mean is this: few people would like the idea of being treated by inexperienced doctors when they're ill. But if inexperienced doctors don't get to treat patients, how is the next generation of doctors supposed to become experienced? And a similar logic probably applies in many other professions, too.

So, have, perhaps, any academics done serious work on that problem? Is there, perhaps, a formal name for it, other than "experience paradox"? And has anyone come up with a good way to resolve the paradox?

I don't know if there's a name for it, but I'd say it's well known, especially by job seekers.

Can unfortunately confirm this…and even if you do have experience it’s not enough for a lot of places (as I learnt when I last was in the wind). I remember applying to a rather large non-bank employer where the job description—for multiple positions—was a match to what I’d been doing for five years at that point, with the vacancies posted for nine months plus in some cases, and yet I was rejected for all of them. I did receive an interview for one position that lasted 40 minutes, and yet after three months (!), I had to call them to find out I was passed over.

Thank you, those are all interesting perspectives, but most of you seem to subtly shift things around to view things from the perspective of the inexperienced professionals, in witch case it becomes a classic Catch-22, I was more wondering about the whole problem from the perspective of the larger society.

society generally tends to have a very short-term vision driven by economic predominance...
The countervailing powers of politicians, undermined by the permeability between the political world and economic actors, no longer play their strategic role...
profitability being the key word...
the consequence is that the quality of all production is declining, and it's up to customers to get used to it...
new generation workers, after having produced to be disposable pawns, see now their work as meaningless and no longer invest in it...
it's difficult for my generation, who lived in another world, where work meant a job well done, and being a worker meant pride in their work...
and all the digital veneer that envelops this drop in value doesn't change anything...
that's the way the world goes...

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 5:54 am Thank you, those are all interesting perspectives, but most of you seem to subtly shift things around to view things from the perspective of the inexperienced professionals, in witch case it becomes a classic Catch-22, I was more wondering about the whole problem from the perspective of the larger society.

I was attempting to try to answer that aspect of it.....or at least, as a patient. I see a post-doc or a new hire (sometimes i ask, never do i remember long-term), standing by the door or cabinet, watching intently; i don't notice if they take notes, because I'm paying attention to my doctor & answering their questions about my recent history & medications.

I don't know what you're looking for in "from the perspective of the larger society" if thats not it, though; sorry.

xxx wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 6:16 am society generally tends to have a very short-term vision driven by economic predominance...

driven by predominance?

so...its run by things that aren't large or important as of yet?

The countervailing powers of politicians, undermined by the permeability between the political world and economic actors, no longer play their strategic role...

?
'strategic'?

the consequence is that the quality of all production is declining, and it's up to customers to get used to it...

thats weird, because the medical care I & my relatives get, has not declined in 50 years, and we aren't famous or rich.

that's the way the world goes...

I just have one question, and its an old one: what color is the sky?

keenir wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 9:38 am

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 5:54 am Thank you, those are all interesting perspectives, but most of you seem to subtly shift things around to view things from the perspective of the inexperienced professionals, in witch case it becomes a classic Catch-22, I was more wondering about the whole problem from the perspective of the larger society.

I was attempting to try to answer that aspect of it.....or at least, as a patient. I see a post-doc or a new hire (sometimes i ask, never do i remember long-term), standing by the door or cabinet, watching intently; i don't notice if they take notes, because I'm paying attention to my doctor & answering their questions about my recent history & medications.

I don't know what you're looking for in "from the perspective of the larger society" if thats not it, though; sorry.

Then I might have misunderstood your post. Sorry.

xxx wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 6:16 am society generally tends to have a very short-term vision driven by economic predominance...

driven by predominance?

so...its run by things that aren't large or important as of yet?

No, I don't think that's what the word "predominance" is usually seen as meaning: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/predominance

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 9:50 am

keenir wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 9:38 am

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 5:54 am Thank you, those are all interesting perspectives, but most of you seem to subtly shift things around to view things from the perspective of the inexperienced professionals, in witch case it becomes a classic Catch-22, I was more wondering about the whole problem from the perspective of the larger society.

I was attempting to try to answer that aspect of it.....or at least, as a patient. I see a post-doc or a new hire (sometimes i ask, never do i remember long-term), standing by the door or cabinet, watching intently; i don't notice if they take notes, because I'm paying attention to my doctor & answering their questions about my recent history & medications.

I don't know what you're looking for in "from the perspective of the larger society" if thats not it, though; sorry.

Then I might have misunderstood your post. Sorry.

When you have a trainee and a mentor working together, you get the experience of the mentor and the trainee can get hands on experience. Also at least where I live, the office (doctor, dentist, etc) asks if you'd feel comfortable with having a trainee watching or doing specific procedures with the mentor supervising. People are more apt to accept someone with less experience if someone with more experience is supervising and can step in if needed.

There's also the fact that while newer doctors have less hands on experience, they also have been taught the most up-to-date info about health and the newest techniques. While doctors and other health care workers are supposed to keep up with the newest info in their field, after a point they aren't going to be mentally flexible to integrate that info into their practice. So experience comes with the trade off of outdated information.

It might be more of a catch 22 if say, it was a line of work we weren't still learning new things about every few years, or months.