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Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:21 pm
by bradrn
Welcome back Killerwhale! I hope this new account works better than the old one.
Anyway, I have two suggested romanizations. Here’s an African-inspired one:
/m n/ ⟨m n⟩
/p b t̪ d̪ t d ʈ ɖ k g/ ⟨p b ṱ ḓ t d ṭ ɖ k g⟩
/ɓ ɖ tʼ ʈʼ ʄ~ɠ̪ kʼ/ ⟨ɓ ɖ ƭ ƭ̣ ɠ ƙ⟩
/tɕ dʑ ʈʂ ɖʒ/ ⟨c j tr ɖr⟩
/tɕʼ ʈʂʼ/ ⟨ƈ ƭr⟩
/f v s z ɕ ʂ x/ ⟨f v s z ʃ ṣ x⟩
/w ɾ l j/ ⟨w r l y⟩
/a e i o u ɛ~ɜ/ ⟨a e i o ɛ⟩
And one which pays more attention to the diachronics:
/m n/ ⟨m n⟩
/p b t̪ d̪ t d ʈ ɖ k g/ ⟨p b th dh t d rt rd k g⟩
/ɓ ɖ tʼ ʈʼ ʄ~ɠ̪ kʼ/ ⟨ʼb ʼd ʼt rʼt ʼg ʼk⟩
/tɕ dʑ ʈʂ ɖʒ/ ⟨ch j tr ɖr⟩
/tɕʼ ʈʂʼ/ ⟨ʼch ʼtr⟩
/f v s z ɕ ʂ x/ ⟨f v s z sh rs x⟩
/w ɾ l j/ ⟨w r l y⟩
/a e i o u ɛ~ɜ/ ⟨a e i o ie⟩
Oh, and you wouldn’t happen to have a sample text, would you?
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:12 am
by dɮ the phoneme
English
/p b t d tʃ dʒ k g/ <p b t d c j k g>
/f v s z θ ð ʃ ʒ h/ <f~ff f'~f s~ss s'~s z~zz z'~z x~xx x'~x h>
/w l r j/ <w' l r j'>
/m n ŋ/ <m n n'>
/i ɪ u ʊ eɪ oʊ ɛ ɔ æ ɑ ʌ ə aɪ aʊ oɪ/ <i y u w ey ow e o ea oa v q ay aw oy> + contrastive stress <V'>
Where graphemes appear in pairs, the second is used postvocalically and the first is used elsewhere. All letters are lower case.
sow z'yss ys a ryli vgli oaltqrnqt orzoagrqfi ay keim vp wiz for yn'glyx. wqtqj'q zynk?
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:24 am
by bradrn
dɮ the phoneme wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:12 am
English
/p b t d tʃ dʒ k g/ <p b t d c j k g>
/f v s z θ ð ʃ ʒ h/ <f~ff f'~f s~ss s'~s z~zz z'~z x~xx x'~x h>
/w l r j/ <w' l r j'>
/m n ŋ/ <m n n'>
/i ɪ u ʊ eɪ oʊ ɛ ɔ æ ɑ ʌ ə aɪ aʊ oɪ/ <i y u w ey ow e o ea oa v q ay aw oy> + contrastive stress <V'>
Where graphemes appear in pairs, the second is used postvocalically and the first is used elsewhere. All letters are lower case.
sow z'yss ys a ryli vgli oaltqrnqt orzoagrqfi ay keim vp wiz for yn'glyx. wqtqj'q zynk?
pqrfqktli offl! ay olsow head a gow eat setyn' qn yn'glyx ri-rowmqnayzeyxqn cealqnj, bvt z'eat wvn yuzzd a dyffrqnt fonolqji tu yorz… hirz may qtempt wis' yor fonolqji:
/p b t d tʃ dʒ k g/ ⟨p b t d č j k g⟩
/f v s z θ ð ʃ ʒ h/ ⟨f v s z c dh š ž h⟩
/w l r j/ ⟨w l r y⟩
/m n ŋ/ ⟨m n ŋ⟩
/i ɪ u ʊ eɪ oʊ ɛ ɔ æ ɑ ʌ ə aɪ aʊ oɪ/ ⟨i ɨ ʉ u ei ou e o ë a ä ö öi au oi⟩
sow dhɨs ɨz a not-kwöit-sou-ägli altörnöt orcogröfi öi keim äp with for ɨŋglɨš. wödöyö thɨŋk? öy cɨŋk ɨts not tʉ bëd. (dhë hard part nau ɨz getɨŋ pipöl tʉ yʉz ɨt!)
ol hyʉmön biɨŋz a born fri ënd ikwöl ɨn dɨgnɨti ënd röits. dhey ar öndaud wɨc rizön ënd konšɨns ënd šud ëkt töwordz ič ädhör ɨn a spɨröt ov brädhörhud.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:13 am
by Killerwhale
/p b t d tʃ dʒ k g/ ⟨p b t d ci di c g⟩
/f v s z θ ð ʃ ʒ h/ ⟨ff f ss~s s tt dd si~is si~is ch⟩
/w l r j/ ⟨w l r i⟩
/m n ŋ/ ⟨m n nn~n⟩
/i ɪ u ʊ eɪ oʊ ɛ ɔ æ ɑ ʌ ə aɪ aʊ oɪ/ <i ie u w ei ow e o ea oa a y ai aw oi>
Ddi best orttoagryffi ffor Ienglieis ies oabfiysli ddies wan. Ailynd's fwl af Celts, eniwei, wwd bi sieli noat tu ius wat ddei cheaf.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:42 am
by dɮ the phoneme
/p b t d tʃ dʒ k g/ ⟨pp b tt d xx c kk g⟩
/f v s z θ ð ʃ ʒ h/ ⟨p bh ce de t dh x ch k⟩
/w l r j/ ⟨gu l r gi⟩
/m n ŋ/ ⟨m n nn⟩
/i ɪ u ʊ eɪ oʊ ɛ ɔ æ ɑ ʌ ə aɪ aʊ oɪ/ <ii i uu u ee oo e o a aa qq q z v f>
zbh gaatt q nuu guqqn and itce iibhqn guqrce! pqnii dhat ceqqm guqrdde akkxqlii kqqm vtt riidqbql.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:57 am
by anteallach
Aigh thuinc dhat bhot Ionglais riaili nuìods ios an orthograifi bhuit ios bèasd on Aighearais and Sgotais Gailic sbealaing coinbheinteans, caigheand obh laighic a ribhears Mancs. Dhuis bheirsean ios mòr Sgotais dhan Aighearais bat <th> ios ghiùsd ion dha mòr ghiùiseal Ionglais bhuè.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:30 pm
by Nortaneous
/p b t d tʃ dʒ k g/ <p b t d c j k g>
/f v s z θ ð ʃ ʒ h/ <ff fh ss s hl hd x xx h>
/w l r j/ <f l r y>
/m n ŋ/ <m n ñ>
/i ɪ u ʊ eɪ oʊ ɛ ɔ æ ɑ ʌ ə ɨ/ɨj# aɪ aʊ oɪ ju/
<i w u wf e o x q xi a v 0* y ai xu oi iu>
* <v> where necessary
Xis iu kn ssi, hd Pxin-Ssfampyhl Xilffbxt ws pvrffktly ssutd ffqr hd Wñglhl lxiñgfj xind hlwfd bi prmotd xis hd tru qrhlagrfy hxnsfqrhl - wt ws bohl wntairly ffnimk xind rmarkbly knssvrfhtyfh ffqr v totl rffqrm, prsvrfhñ fmwlyvr ficrs vfh hd old qrhlagrfy ssvc xis <y> ffqr fvrd-ffainl /-ɨj/.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:24 pm
by bradrn
dɮ the phoneme wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:42 am
zbh gaatt q nuu guqqn and itce iibhqn guqrce! pqnii dhat ceqqm guqrdde akkxqlii kqqm vtt riidqbql.
anteallach wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:57 am
Aigh thuinc dhat bhot Ionglais riaili nuìods ios an orthograifi bhuit ios bèasd on Aighearais and Sgotais Gailic sbealaing coinbheinteans, caigheand obh laighic a ribhears Mancs. Dhuis bheirsean ios mòr Sgotais dhan Aighearais bat <th> ios ghiùsd ion dha mòr ghiùiseal Ionglais bhuè.
Nortaneous wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:30 pm
Xis iu kn ssi, hd Pxin-Ssfampyhl Xilffbxt ws pvrffktly ssutd ffqr hd Wñglhl lxiñgfj xind hlwfd bi prmotd xis hd tru qrhlagrfy hxnsfqrhl - wt ws bohl wntairly ffnimk xind rmarkbly knssvrfhtyfh ffqr v totl rffqrm, prsvrfhñ fmwlyvr ficrs vfh hd old qrhlagrfy ssvc xis <y> ffqr fvrd-ffainl /-ɨj/.
Yör ol getɨŋ ö bɨt tʉ krieitɨv hyer… öi kant rid dhiz ët ol. (Öspešöli Nort’s… öi kën rid dhö först fyʉ wördz öv dɮ ënd anteallach’s pousts, bät not eni mor.) Ö čransleišön wud bi mäč öprišieitöd!
(Rɨtön yʉsɨŋ möi
nyʉ ënd rövaizd Ɨŋglɨš orcogröfi. Öim bökämɨŋ mor ënd mor könvɨnst dhët dhɨs ɨz ëkčöli ö römarköbli gʉd orcogröfi for dhɨs lëŋwöj! Ivön ɨf ɨt däz meik ɨt lʉk laik ö kros bötwin Ëlbeiniyön önd Kobon.)
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:26 pm
by dɮ the phoneme
oh this is a challenge now, I see...
Write English in the current orthography, then replace each latin later with it's tackiest faux-Cyrillic equivalent: <a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z> become <д в с ԁ е ғ ҁ н і j к Ӏ м и ф р ѻ я ѕ т ц ѵ ш ж у Ꙁ>. Now transliterate back to latin the normal way <d v s d ye gh q n i j k ' m i f r o ya dz t ts eu sh zh u z>
Tnidz dzsyairt nddz tnye ddeuditdqye fgh vyeiiq vftn niqn'u yayaedddv'ye, yeitiyaye'u yayeqts'dya, did d myeyaye miifya dyeeuidtifi ghyafm tnye stsyayayeit fyatnfqyadrnu.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:21 pm
by Nortaneous
bradrn wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:24 pm
Nortaneous wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:30 pm
Xis iu kn ssi, hd Pxin-Ssfampyhl Xilffbxt ws pvrffktly ssutd ffqr hd Wñglhl lxiñgfj xind hlwfd bi prmotd xis hd tru qrhlagrfy hxnsfqrhl - wt ws bohl wntairly ffnimk xind rmarkbly knssvrfhtyfh ffqr v totl rffqrm, prsvrfhñ fmwlyvr ficrs vfh hd old qrhlagrfy ssvc xis <y> ffqr fvrd-ffainl /-ɨj/.
Yör ol getɨŋ ö bɨt tʉ krieitɨv hyer… öi kant rid dhiz ët ol. (Öspešöli Nort’s… öi kën rid dhö först fyʉ wördz öv dɮ ënd anteallach’s pousts, bät not eni mor.) Ö čransleišön wud bi mäč öprišieitöd!
Aes iuw ken sui, xy Paen-Swampish Aelfybet us pyrfuktli suwtid for xy Unglish laengwicc aend shwd bui prymywtid aes xy truw orxagryfi henssforx - ut us bywx intairli fynuimik aend rymarkybli kynsyrfytiff for y tywtyl ryform, prisyrving fymuliyr fuicyrs yf xy ywld orxagryi syc aes <y> for wyrd-fainyl /-ɨj/.
The contrasts between /f v/, /θ ð/, /s z/, /ʃ ʒ/, and /tʃ dʒ/ don't need to be reliably distinguished; doubling <f x s sh c> for the less common value where necessary should be good enough. But I find the first one pretty readable - writing unstressed vowels is also generally unnecessary, and leads to the insurmountable problem of whether or not to distinguish /ə ɨ/ from each other and from /ʌ i/ respectively. American English, however, has only eight vowels, which simplifies things somewhat, although there's no good way to write the third high vowel.
The best option, of course, is as follows:
𐐈𐑆 𐑏 𐐿𐐯𐑌 𐑅𐐨, 𐑄 𐐑𐐰𐑌-𐐝𐐶𐐪𐑋𐐹𐐮𐑇 𐐈𐑊𐑁ı𐐺𐐯𐐻 𐐮𐑆 𐐹𐐲𐑉𐑁𐐮𐐿𐐻𐑊𐐮 𐑅𐐭𐐻𐐮𐐼 𐑁𐐫𐑉 𐑄 𐐆𐑍𐑀𐑊𐐮𐑇 𐑊𐐰𐑍𐑀𐐶𐐮𐐾 𐐰𐑌𐐼 𐑇𐐳𐐼 𐐺𐐨 𐐹𐑉ı𐑋𐐬𐐻𐐮𐐼 𐐰𐑆 𐑄 𐐻𐑉𐐭 𐐫𐑉𐑃𐐪𐑀𐑉ı𐑁𐐮 𐐸𐐯𐑌𐑅𐑁𐐫𐑉𐑃 - 𐐮𐐻 𐐮𐑆 𐐺𐐬𐑃 𐐮𐑌𐐻𐐴𐑉𐑊𐐮 𐑁ı𐑌𐐨𐑋𐐮𐐿 𐐰𐑌𐐼 𐑉ı𐑋𐐪𐑉𐐿ı𐐺𐑊𐐮 𐐿ı𐑌𐑅𐐲𐑉𐑂ı𐐻𐐮𐑂 𐑁𐐫𐑉 𐐩 𐐻𐐬𐐻ı𐑊 𐑉𐐮𐑁𐐫𐑉𐑋, 𐐹𐑉𐐮𐑆𐐲𐑉𐑂𐐮𐑍 𐑁ı𐑋𐐮𐑊𐐷ı𐑉 𐑁𐐨𐐽ı𐑉𐑆 𐐲𐑂 𐑄 𐐬𐑊𐐼 𐐫𐑉𐑃𐐪𐑀𐑉ı𐑁𐐮 𐑅𐐲𐐽 𐐰𐑆 <y> 𐑁𐐫𐑉 𐐶𐐲𐑉𐐼-𐑁𐐴𐑌ı𐑊 /-ɨj/.
But the Mormon runes don't provide any way to distinguish /ɨ i/, and there's no Unicode support for the Shelton schwa, so you have to use dotless i instead, which usually looks bad in fonts.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:03 pm
by Killerwhale
/iloski izɜg/
You've had space English, now try Space Russian.
/m n ɲ/
/p b t̪ d̪ (t d ʈ ɖ) k g/
/ts tɕ dʑ ʈʂ (ɖʐ)/
/f v s z ɕ ʑ ʂ ʐ x/
/w r l j/
/a e o u i ɜ ɐ ɨ /
Palatalised coronal plosives became /tɕ/ and /dʑ/, /rʲ/ became /ʑ/, /lʲ/ became /j/ through a short-lived /ʎ/, /nʲ/ became /ɲ/, /sʲ/ and /zʲ/ became /ɕ/ and /ʑ/. All other palatals depalatalised tracelessly before /a o u/ and all the reduced vowels, while before /i/ and /e/ the lack of palatalisation phonemised the following vowels as /ɨ/ and /ɛ/, which later merged into /ɜ/ - as a consequence, /t d l r s z/ show a limited distribution of not ever occurring before /i e/ in native vocabulary.
/tʲ/ becoming /tɕ/ pushed the existing ancestral Russian /tɕ/ into /ʈʂ/ due to the influence of that space English I posted earlier. Alveolar and retroflex coronal plosives, as well as (ɖʐ), are only found in loanwords from the space English, but it's considered to be cool and fashionable to not mix them with the native dentals. /v/ weakened to /w/ intevocallically and in consonant clusters so regularly that the two sounds may as well be allophones, but the distinction between the phonemes is maintained in loanwords.
The Russian reduced vowels joined the /ɜ/ to become a vertical system of reduced vowels - /ə/ merged with /ɐ/ and /ɪ/ became the new /ɨ/, although the actual realisation is anywhere at the appropriate height and is strongly influenced by the surrounding consonants. The main phonetic difference between the non-reduced vowels and the vertical reduced ones is the non-reduced vowels being almost twice as long.
Maximum syllable structure is CCVCC, but this is rare. Due to space Englush influence, CV syllables are preferred, although they are less common here.
/ɐnaʐdɜ, w ͡ ɐstudʑonuu ʑiɲuu poru, ja iz jesu vɜʂɜl, bɜl ɕijnɜj mɐroz. Gjaʐu pɐɲimaɨtsɐ medjɨnɐ w ͡ goru lɐʂatkɐ vɨzuɕaa xworɐstu vos/
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:17 pm
by bradrn
Space Russian as Polish+OCS:
/iloski izɜg/ Iloski izĭg
/m n ɲ/ ⟨m n ń⟩
/p b t̪ d̪ (t d ʈ ɖ) k g/ ⟨p b t d (tt dd rt rd) k g⟩
/ts tɕ dʑ ʈʂ (ɖʐ)/ ⟨c ć dź cz (dż)⟩
/f v s z ɕ ʑ ʂ ʐ x/ ⟨f v s z ś ź sz ż ch⟩
/w r l j/ ⟨w r l j⟩
/a e o u i ɜ ɐ ɨ/ ⟨a e o u i ĭ ă y⟩
/ɐnaʐdɜ, w ͡ ɐstudʑonuu ʑiɲuu poru, ja iz jesu vɜʂɜl, bɜl ɕijnɜj mɐroz. gjaʐu pɐɲimaɨtsɐ medjɨnɐ w ͡ goru lɐʂatkɐ vɨzuɕaa xworɐstu vos/
Ănażddŏ, w ăstudżonuu źińuu poru, ja iz jesu vĭszĭl, bĭl śijnĭj măroz. Gjażu păńimaycă medjynă w goru lăszattkkă vyzuśaa chworăstu vos.
EDIT: And an alternative with ⟨ŏ⟩ instead of ⟨ĭ⟩:
Ănażddŏ, w ăstudżonuu źińuu poru, ja iz jesu vŏszŏl, bŏl śijnŏj măroz. Gjażu păńimaycă medjynă w goru lăszattkkă vyzuśaa chworăstu vos.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:58 pm
by Nortaneous
/iloski izɜg/
iloski izakh
/m n ɲ/ <m n ñ>
/p b t̪ d̪ (t d ʈ ɖ) k g/ <ph p t d (th dh ṭ ḍ) k g>
/ts tɕ dʑ ʈʂ (ɖʐ)/ <ts c j tt>
/f v s z ɕ ʑ ʂ ʐ x/ <f b s ys śś ś ṣṣ ṣ kh>
/w r l j/ <v r l y>
/a e o u i ɜ ɐ ɨ/ <ā ei o u i e a ä>
<h> for hiatus, /js/ <yss>, /uu ii/ <ū ī>
/xw/ <hv>
/ɐnaʐdɜ, w ͡ ɐstudʑonuu ʑiɲuu poru, ja iz jesu vɜʂɜl, bɜl ɕijnɜj mɐroz. Gjaʐu pɐɲimaɨtsɐ medjɨnɐ w ͡ goru lɐʂatkɐ vɨzuɕaa xworɐstu vos/
Anāṣde, vastujonū śinū phoru, yā iys yeisu beṣṣel, pel śśiyney maroys. Gyaṣu phañimāhätsa meidyäna vgoru laṣṣātka bäysuśśāhā hvorastu bos.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:12 am
by Karch
/iloski izɜg/ <Îloskî îzeg>
/m n ɲ/ <m n ny>
/p b t̪ d̪ (t d ʈ ɖ) k g/ <p b t d t' d' tr dr k g>
/ts tɕ dʑ ʈʂ (ɖʐ)/ <ts c' j ch jr>
/f v s z ɕ ʑ ʂ ʐ x/ <f v s z s' z' sh zh kh>
/w r l j/ <w r l y>
/a e o u i ɜ ɐ ɨ/ <â ê o u î e a i>
/ɐnaʐdɜ, w ͡ ɐstudʑonuu ʑiɲuu poru, ja iz jesu vɜʂɜl, bɜl ɕijnɜj mɐroz. Gjaʐu pɐɲimaɨtsɐ medjɨnɐ w ͡ goru lɐʂatkɐ vɨzuɕaa xworɐstu vos/
Anâzhde, w astujonuu z'înyuu poru, yâ îz yêsu veshel, bel s'îyney maroz. Gyâzhu panyîmâitsa mêdyina w goru lashâtka vizus'ââ khworastu vos.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:29 pm
by mèþru
Very long post
/ˈsɪŋɔːɹiː/ [ˈsɪŋ.ɡɔːɹ.iː]
Non-syllabic consonants
/p t k/ - aspirated word initially, word-finally voiced intervocalically (only between "true vowels")
/m n ŋ/ - two nasals cannot form a cluster, is followed by a voiced stop intervocalically (only between "true vowels")
/s ɬ h/ - voiced intervocalically (only between "true vowels")
/ɹ l ɰ ʟ/ - two liquids (including /ɬ/) cannot form a cluster.
/h/ is also used as an epenthetic consonant
"True vowels"
/i iː u uː/
/ɪ ɪː ʊ ʊː/
/e̞ e̞ː o oː/
/ɜ æː ɔ ɔː/
unpaired: /y ʌ a/
/ɪ/ is also used as an epenthetic vowel
Syllabic "consonants": /N R z/ (only /z/ is an actual consonant, the other two are actually vowels)
Syllable structure (C)(A)V(l)(C) where A stands for approximant. For syllabic consonants, (C)V(C)
No geminate consonants. No nucleus can be succeeded in hiatus by a long vowel. Only two nuclei allowed in hiatus. Two nuclei of the same quality, regardless of if they differ in length, are not allowed in hiatus.
also not allowed: the clusters /ml mʟ mɹ nl nk nʟ nɰ ŋl ŋʟ ɹR hl hɰ hʟ/ in any position, /h ɰ/ in the coda
voicing and voiced stops after nasals intervocalically occur across
/ŋ ɰ ʟ/ become palatal before /i iː y ɪ ɪː/ as well as [ɪ˞] or a palatalised consonant
/ɰ/ is rounded before any back rounded vowel, including [ɵ̃ ɒ̃ ɑ˞ ɵ˞ ] or after /p m/
/N/ /R/ are realised as [ɑ̃ ɵ̃ ɒ̃ ə̃] [ɑ˞ ɵ˞ ɒ˞ ɪ˞] in the respective situations: after /k ʟ h/ or with /k ʟ/ as the following sound of the same syllable, before /m p/ or a rounded back vowel, simultaneously both set of conditions or finally if they fulfill none of them.
When /ɰ ʟ/ are neither rounded nor labialised, onset [kɰ kʟ] is [k͡x k͡ʟ̝̊]. When /lk/ is the coda, [ɫk]
Stress is contrastive. Syllabification isn't.
Syllabification, starting with the last syllable, assigns [VC.CV] if the second vowel has a coda and [VCC.V] otherwise. Same with [VCC.CV] vs [VC.CCV]. This means /loni lonik/ [lond.i] [lon.dik]
Two example sentences:
/ˈpɔs.ko ˈŋum.i n̩ ˈŋiː.ɔn.ɔ ‖/
[ˈpʰɔs.ko ˈŋɡum.bi ə̃ ˈɲɟiː.ɔnd.ɔ ‖]
/n̩ ˈuː.pɵ̃t kʰæːˈɰɔ.ɬas ˈpɔlŋ.y ‖/
[ə̃ ˈuː.pɵ̃t kʰæːˈwɔ.ɮaz ˈpɔlɲ.y ‖]
My attempt at a Latinate orthography, it's so horrible it makes my agefaqeg-style look good
singôrī
p t c
m n gn
s z h
r l u l
í ī ú ū
i î u û
é ē ó ō
e ê o ô
y a à
[mb] <mb> [nd] <nd> [ɲɟ] <gnd> [ŋɡ] <ng> when they occur within a word, /ŋk/ <nc>
/l ʟ/ are <ll l> intervocalically, <l lu> before [i iː y ɪ ɪː ɪ˞], <lu l> before other orthographic vowels, /l hl/ postvocalically
[ɑ̃ ɵ̃ ɒ̃ ə̃ ɑ˞ ɵ˞ ɒ˞ ɪ˞] <an on an en an or an ir>
Neither stress nor syllabification is marked. There is no differentiating mark for phonetically or phonemically ambiguous readings.
poscó gnúmbí en gnīondo.
en ūpont cêuozàs polgny.
agefaqeg-style
sɨŋoojii
p t k
m n ŋ
s ž h
j l w gl
i ii u uu
ɨ ɨɨ ʉ ʉʉ
e ee ou oou
è èè o oo
y ɇ (remember how you people hated this guy :p) ȅ
n r z
Neither stress nor syllabification is marked. There is no differentiating mark for phonetically or phonemically ambiguous readings.
poskou ŋumi ŋiiono,
n uupnt kèèwožȅs polŋy,
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:56 pm
by bradrn
/ˈsɪŋɔːɹiː/ [ˈsɪŋ.ɡɔːɹ.iː] Sìgòòrii
/p t k/ ⟨p t k⟩
/m n ŋ/ ⟨m~b n~d g⟩
/s ɬ h/ ⟨s ł h⟩
/ɹ l ɰ ʟ/ ⟨r l w ḷ⟩
/i iː u uː/ ⟨i ii u uu⟩
/ɪ ɪː ʊ ʊː/ ⟨ì ìì ù ùù⟩
/e̞ e̞ː o oː/ ⟨e ee o oo⟩
/ɜ æː ɔ ɔː/ ⟨è èè ò òò⟩
/y ʌ a/ ⟨y à a⟩
/N R z/ ⟨v ṛ z⟩
(⟨v⟩ for a nasal vowel is weird, but not unattested; I got it from Cherokee.)
Two example sentences:
/ˈpɔs.ko ˈŋum.i n̩ ˈŋiː.ɔn.ɔ ‖/
[ˈpʰɔs.ko ˈŋɡum.bi ə̃ ˈɲɟiː.ɔnd.ɔ ‖]
/n̩ ˈuː.pɵ̃t ˈkʰæːˈɰɔ.ɬas ˈpɔlŋ.y ‖/
[ə̃ ˈuː.pɵ̃t kʰæːˈwɔ.ɮaz ˈpɔlɲ.y ‖]
Pòsko gubi v giiòdò. V uupvt kèèwòłas pòlgy.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:41 am
by Killerwhale
Aight, here's my own romanisation of my stuff, and I've also modified Space Russian a bit after some more mulling around with vowels.
Space Russian:
/m n ɲ/ <м н нь>
/p b t̪ d̪ (t d ʈ ɖ) k g/ <п б т д тт дд тr дr к г>
/(ɓ ɗ tʼ ʈʼ ʄ~ɠ kʼ)/ <бъ дъ ттъ тrъ гъ къ>
/ts tɕ dʑ ʈʂ (ɖʐ)/ <ц чь jь ч j>
/(tɕʼ ʈʂʼ)/ <чъь чъ>
/f v s z ɕ ʑ ʂ ʐ x/ <ф в с з шь жь ш ж х>
/w r l j/ <ў р л й>
<ь> is universally omitted before <и>, since /i/ is never found following non-palatal coronals anyway, so it's never ambiguous.
/a e o u i ɨ ɐ/ <а e о у и ы э>
/ɐnaʐdɨ, w ͡ ɐstudʑonuu ʑiɲuu poru, ja iz jеsu vɨʂɨl, bɨl ɕijnɨj mɐroz. giʐu, pɐɲimaitsɐ medʑinɐ w ͡ goru lɐʂatkɐ, vizuɕii xworɐstu voz/
<энажды, ў эстуjьонуу жиньуу пору, йа из йесу вышыл, был шийный мэроз. гижу, пэнимаицэ меjинэ ў гору лэшаткэ, визушии хўорэсту воз>
Space English:
/asurajɛɕu/ <asurayixu>
/m n/ ⟨m n⟩
/p b t̪ d̪ t d ʈ ɖ k g/ ⟨p b th dh t d tr dr k g⟩
/ɓ ɖ tʼ ʈʼ ʄ~ɠ̪ kʼ/ ⟨bb dd tt ttr gg kk⟩
/tɕ dʑ ʈʂ ɖʒ/ ⟨c j cr jr⟩
/tɕʼ ʈʂʼ/ ⟨cc ccr⟩
/f v s z ɕ ʂ x/ ⟨f v s z x sr h⟩
/w ɾ l j/ ⟨w r l y⟩
The usage of <r> for digraphs is never confusing since /ɾ/ is only ever found intervocalically in native words.
/a e i o u ɛ~ɜ/ ⟨a e y o u i⟩
The unconventional choice to have <y> represent /i/ while <i> is for the open-mid-central-ish vowel is mostly because /i/ is so much less common and more marked in the vocabulary than /ɛ~ɜ/, which used to be, diachronically, /ɨ/. Plus, /i/ alternates with /j/ all the damn time.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:43 pm
by Karch
/ˈsɪŋɔːɹiː/ [ˈsɪŋ.ɡɔːɹ.iː] <singoarii>
/p t k/ <p t k>
/m n ŋ/ <m n ng>
/s ɬ h/ <s hl h>
/ɹ l ɰ ʟ/ <r l g ngl>
/i iː u uː/ <i ii u uu>
/ɪ ɪː ʊ ʊː/ <î ei û ou>
/e̞ e̞ː o oː/ <e ee o oo>
/ɜ æː ɔ ɔː/ <â ae ô oa>
/y ʌ a/ <ü ä a>
/N R z/ <an ar z>
/ˈpɔs.ko ˈŋum.i n̩ ˈŋiː.ɔn.ɔ ‖/
[ˈpʰɔs.ko ˈŋɡum.bi ə̃ ˈɲɟiː.ɔnd.ɔ ‖]
Pôsko ngumi an ngiiônô.
/n̩ ˈuː.pɵ̃t kʰæːˈɰɔ.ɬas ˈpɔlŋ.y ‖/
[ə̃ ˈuː.pɵ̃t kʰæːˈwɔ.ɮaz ˈpɔlɲ.y ‖]
An uupant kaegôhlas pôlngü.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:32 am
by dɮ the phoneme
unnamed phonology:
/p t t(s)ʲ tˤ k/
/b d d(z)ʲ dˤ g/
/f s sʲ sˤ/
/m n~l nʲ~ʎ nˤ~ɫ/
/i o a/
/iː uː eː oː aː eu/
/ɛ̃ː ɔ̃ː ãː/
V́ V̅ V̀ V̰̅ V̰̀
Only stressed syllables contrast tone and length. Stress always falls on the first or second syllable; stressed initial syllables are always heavy. /n/ > [l] word internally before an oral vowel.
/páːtako sʲatˤóː minē nò̰ːnʲisa tonònɛ̃ːfidʲifidʲi dáːga mogã̰̀ːdi dˤí kèumo fanūːno minē gáːsˤe/
------
unnamed phonology + 1000 years:
f s(ʲ ˤ) n(ʲ ˤ) b d(ʲ ˤ) > v z(ʲ ˤ) l(ʎ ɫ) β ð(ʲ ˤ) / V_V
a ãː > ə ə̃ in unstressed syllables
central and high vowels in metrically weak positions syncopate
o > ə in unstressed syllables
nasal vowels become oral
sʲ tʲ dʲ > ʃ tʃ dʒ > ʃ ʃ ʒ
p t k > f θ x /_[+obstruent]
CCˤ > CˤCˤ
{s ʃ}ˤ {z ʒ}ˤ kˤ gˤ ðˤ > ʂˤ ʐˤ q ɢ ʁ
ɢ > ʁ except finally, where ɢ > q
{ðʲ ʎ} ʁ ɫ > j ∅ w
uː eu > yː uː
iː yː uː eː oː ɛː ɔː > ia iː uaː iː uː eː oː in stressed syllables, ɛː ɔː > iː uː in unstressed syllabels [blocked adjacent to uvulars/pharyngealized cons.]
{a(ː) o(ː) ə} i(ː) e(ː) > ɑ(ː) ɨ(ː) æ(ː) adjacent to uvulars/pharyngealized cons.
a(ː) > æ(ː)
pharyngealization lost
all final mid vowels raise
V̄ > V̀ after voiced stop, elsewhere V̄ V̰̅ > V́ V̰̀
syllabe final consonants devoice
/p b t d k g q/
/f v s z θ ð ʃ ʒ ʂ ʐ x/
/m n nʲ/
/w l j/
in stressed syllables:
/i ɨ o ɑ æ ia ua iː ɨː uː eː oː æː ɑː/
in unstressed syllables:
/ə i iː uː æː/
(the above text just run through the sound changes)
/pǽːθku ʂtúː mlíː nṵ̀ːjsə təlòlivjivji dǽk məgæ̰̀ːt dɨ́kuàmə flílu mlíː gɑ́ːʐ/
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:19 am
by bradrn
dɮ the phoneme wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:32 am
/p b t d k g q/
/f v s z θ ð ʃ ʒ ʂ ʐ x/
/m n nʲ/
/l ʎ ɫ/
in stressed syllables:
/i ɨ o ɑ æ ia ua iː ɨː uː eː oː æː ɑː/
in unstressed syllables:
/ə i iː uː æː/
(the above text just run through the sound changes)
/páːθku ʂtúː mlíː nṵ̀ːʎsə təlòlivjivji dák məgà̰ːt dɨ́ fluálu mlíː gáːʐi/
Couple of confusing things here… the sample text has /j a/, but the phonemic inventory doesn’t. Also, I’d like to know, is stress predictable? (In both the protolanguage and its child.)