Zompist Bboard Again

Ser wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:15 pmcentury vs. sentry

[ˈsɪ̃nt͡ʃɹiː] vs [ˈsɪ̃ntɹ̥iː]. (I may have some affrication of the /t/ in sentry but it's definitely not the full-blown affricate of century.)

Yonkers: [ˈjɒ̃(ŋ)kʁ̩ːs]
century, sentry: [ˈsɜ̃(n)tʃɻ͡ʁi(ː)]

"century" has three syllables for me, "sen chur y". "Sentry" has two.

Ser wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:15 pmcentury vs. sentry

sentry [ˈsɛntʂɹɪ]
century can be the same, and probably usually is in casual speech, but can be trisyllabic [ˈsɛnʲtʃəɹɪ]

(Final vowels can vary depending on context, but I don't think that's what you were asking about.)

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:26 pm

Ser wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:15 pmcentury vs. sentry

[ˈsɪ̃nt͡ʃɹiː] vs [ˈsɪ̃ntɹ̥iː]. (I may have some affrication of the /t/ in sentry but it's definitely not the full-blown affricate of century.)

That reminds me of how when I was little I pronounced initial /tr/ and /str/ (e.g. in my first name) with minimal affrication, even though I had pronunciations like "[ˈmɘɕtɕʁ̩ː] Rogers", and only really picked up affrication of initial /tr/ and /str/ when a got a bit older (around 3rd grade or so).

hydrogen
nitrogen

century [sɛntʃɚ.i]
sentry [sɛntʃɹi] (there might be a phonetic difference?)
hydrogen [haɪ̯dɹədʒɨn]
nitrogen [nʌɪ̯tʃɹədʒɨn]

-

/ˈhaɪ̯dɹədʒɛn/ [ˈhaɪ̯ɾɹ̩˔dʒɪn]
/ˈnaɪ̯tɹədʒɛn/ [ˈnɜɪ̯tɹ̩̊˔d̥ʒɪn]

I have affrication and metathesis/syllabification and raising in both of these words, giving:

hydrogen: /ˈhaɪ̯dʒərdʒən/ (/ˈhəɪ̯dʒərdʒən/?) [ˈhəːe̯tʃʁ̩ːtʃɘ̃ːn]
nitrogen: /ˈnaɪ̯tʃərdʒən/ (/ˈnəɪ̯tʃərdʒən/?) [ˈnəe̯tʃʁ̩ːtʃɘ̃ːn]

hydrogen [ˈhaɪ̯dɹ̱ˁʷɵʤn̩]
nitrogen [ˈnɐɪ̯tɹ̱ˁʷɵʤn̩]

"microwave"
"microphone"
"infrared"
"children"

microwave /mʌjkrəwejv/ [ˈmʌi̯kɹəˌweɪ̯v]
microphone /mʌjkrəfʌwn/ [ˈmʌi̯kɹəˌfɤn]
infrared /infrəˈred/ [ˌɪnfɹəˈrɛd]
children /tʃildrɨn/ [tʃɪɫdɹᵻn]

microwave [ˈmɐɪ̯kɹ̱ˁʷɵˌwɛɪ̯v]
microphone [ˈmɐɪ̯kɹ̱ˁʷəˌfəʊ̯n]
infrared [ˌɪnfɹ̱ˁʷəˈɹ̱ˁʷɛʔd̚]
children [ˈʧʰɪɫdɹ̱ˁn̩]

microwave: [ˈməe̯kʁəːˌweːf], before a vowel [ˈməe̯kʁəːˌweːv]
microphone: [ˈməe̯kʁəfɵ̃(ː)(n)]
infrared: [ˈɘ̃nfʁ̩ːˌʁʷɜːt], before a vowel [ˈɘ̃nfʁ̩ːˌʁʷɜːɾ]
children: [ˈtʃʰɘːɯ̯tʃɻ͡ʁɘ̃(ː)(n)]

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:46 pmThat reminds me of how when I was little I pronounced initial /tr/ and /str/ (e.g. in my first name) with minimal affrication, even though I had pronunciations like "[ˈmɘɕtɕʁ̩ː] Rogers", and only really picked up affrication of initial /tr/ and /str/ when a got a bit older (around 3rd grade or so).

Couldn't that have been simple metathesis of [tsr] -> [str]?


JAL

jal wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:43 am

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:46 pmThat reminds me of how when I was little I pronounced initial /tr/ and /str/ (e.g. in my first name) with minimal affrication, even though I had pronunciations like "[ˈmɘɕtɕʁ̩ː] Rogers", and only really picked up affrication of initial /tr/ and /str/ when a got a bit older (around 3rd grade or so).

Couldn't that have been simple metathesis of [tsr] -> [str]?

Nah - /tsr/ is not a consonant cluster that normally shows up in English except across morpheme boundaries, whereas /str/ is very common as consonant clusters go.

Today I spent a dumb amount of time trying to determine whether I normally say "cilantro" in two syllables or three. Still not sure.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:20 am Today I spent a dumb amount of time trying to determine whether I normally say "cilantro" in two syllables or three. Still not sure.

Definitely three for me: [sɪ.ˈɫɑn.tɹ̱ˁəʊ̯].

Zaarin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:00 am

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:20 am Today I spent a dumb amount of time trying to determine whether I normally say "cilantro" in two syllables or three. Still not sure.

Definitely three for me: [sɪ.ˈɫɑn.tɹ̱ˁəʊ̯].

My deletion of pretonic syllables goes beyond most other speakers of American English I know. I usually have initial clusters in deleted and Melissa.