Zompist Bboard Again

I've gotten the impression over time that I might just have what people perceive as a 'foreign' accent even in my home state, even though I've only lived outside it for a few years as an adult over a decade ago. When I talk to coworkers at things like work lunch events they often ask me unprompted where I'm from, even though many people I work with are also from Wisconsin and the Upper Midwest in general.

I've also had coworkers from other parts of Wisconsin remark about my characteristic ja, which I previously had thought of just as an alternate pronunciation of yeah when I thought about it at all. (My mother herself has remarked that she was unfamiliar with ja before she moved to the Milwaukee area.)

Note that I once had someone I'd never met before pick out which suburb I grew up in solely from how I spoke, and specifically said that I had an accent associated with that suburb.

A good friend of mine who grew up within walking distance of the house I grew up in (who too has the characteristic ja) has also said that people in Chicago would comment on her accent when she was there, especially as, from how she put it, the very "long" vowels as they saw it.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Apr 25, 2025 8:49 am I've also had coworkers from other parts of Wisconsin remark about my characteristic ja, which I previously had thought of just as an alternate pronunciation of yeah when I thought about it at all. (My mother herself has remarked that she was unfamiliar with ja before she moved to the Milwaukee area.)

I also say ja sometimes. In my case it’s a South Africanism, ultimately from Afrikaans.

bradrn wrote: ↑Fri Apr 25, 2025 8:48 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Apr 25, 2025 8:49 am I've also had coworkers from other parts of Wisconsin remark about my characteristic ja, which I previously had thought of just as an alternate pronunciation of yeah when I thought about it at all. (My mother herself has remarked that she was unfamiliar with ja before she moved to the Milwaukee area.)

I also say ja sometimes. In my case it’s a South Africanism, ultimately from Afrikaans.

You've said that your idiolect has significant influence from SAE, but how much influence has Afrikaans had on it? (I've read that there are significant differences in the English of South Africans of, say, British and of Afrikaner descent.)

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Apr 25, 2025 9:23 pm

bradrn wrote: ↑Fri Apr 25, 2025 8:48 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Apr 25, 2025 8:49 am I've also had coworkers from other parts of Wisconsin remark about my characteristic ja, which I previously had thought of just as an alternate pronunciation of yeah when I thought about it at all. (My mother herself has remarked that she was unfamiliar with ja before she moved to the Milwaukee area.)

I also say ja sometimes. In my case it’s a South Africanism, ultimately from Afrikaans.

You've said that your idiolect has significant influence from SAE, but how much influence has Afrikaans had on it? (I've read that there are significant differences in the English of South Africans of, say, British and of Afrikaner descent.)

Afrikaner English is definitely distinct from the South African English of native English speakers. But Afrikaans has had a strong influence on the latter too, in lexicon and probably phonology too. For myself, I couldn’t comment on the phonology, but I do have a few Afrikaans loanwords: though off the top of my head I can only think of /jɑː/ ‘ja’ and /χoχo/ ‘creepy-crawly’. (My parents use more Afrikaans words than I do.) Sometimes it’s unclear to me whether a word is from Afrikaans or Yiddish, e.g. /χap/ ‘take away’.

Is there a new, now more accepted or desired, word or term for the variety of Chinese that was traditionally called "Mandarin", which I haven't heard about yet?

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 8:09 am Is there a new, now more accepted or desired, word or term for the variety of Chinese that was traditionally called "Mandarin", which I haven't heard about yet?

Why would there be? ‘Mandarin’ is still fine as far as I’m aware. If you want to be more specific you can talk about ‘Standard Chinese’, ‘Bejing dialect’, or any other Mandarin variety.

I think I've sometimes seen it put it scare quotes, which makes me wonder if some people might find it offensive.

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 8:09 am Is there a new, now more accepted or desired, word or term for the variety of Chinese that was traditionally called "Mandarin", which I haven't heard about yet?

The standard name for the language in English is 'Mandarin'. As bradrn mentions there are other terms like 'Standard Chinese' and 'Beijing dialect' but these are not synonymous with Mandarin (e.g. Sichuanese is a set of Mandarin varieties but is certainly not Standard Chinese)

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 8:39 am I think I've sometimes seen it put it scare quotes, which makes me wonder if some people might find it offensive.

It is not offensive at all, except possibly to professionally offended 'social justice' types, and those people are offended by everything.

I would guess the quotes result from some uncertainty. If someone not entirely familiar with Chinese wanted to talk about a particular character, they might not know if the terms Mandarin or Chinese would be correct. You might see someone refer to a sentence heard in Haiti as "French" or "Creole" in quotation marks, simply because the person isn't clear on the difference between French and Creole, but knows that there's some complication there.

Shit a Brick
Obnatlang
How many of us, and who of us, have a similar expression in the natlangs in which they are fluent?
And which natlangs are those? And what are the expressions?

ObConLang
Which conlangs, and whose conlangs, have such an expression, or an equivalent expression?
What are those Conlangish expressions?

….

Prompted by recent personal experience.
Posted here because back around 2019 (IIANM) somebody’s post* talked about scatology. So I thought this thread might be the best place to post this question.
*[edit] https://verduria.org/viewtopic.php?p=2 ... 2A#p22005 [/edit]

TomHChappell wrote: ↑Sat Jun 07, 2025 12:40 pmShit a Brick

I had to look it up, I was not familiar with the expression. I don't think there's precise a Dutch equivalent. If you're mildly anxious you could use a form of the expression "peentjes zweten", "to sweat carrots". And if you're very, very scared you could use "in je broek schijten van angst" ("to shit in your pants out of fear").


JAL

TomHChappell wrote: ↑Sat Jun 07, 2025 12:40 pm
How many of us, and who of us, have a similar expression in the natlangs in which they are fluent?
And which natlangs are those? And what are the expressions?

Danish has the even more unpleasant-sounding skide grønne grise ("shit green pigs") for getting very frightened. There's also the slightly more polite få et føl ("get/give birth to a foal") for freaking out over something. Unfortunately, I haven't gotten far enough in any other language to get to the lesson where they teach this...

How common is it that relatively long words stay the regular words for common things for a while without getting shortened, even in colloquial speech?

I'm asking because I can think of two German words that have four syllables each that describe everyday things, nothing fancy or academic, and that no one ever seems to shorten in any way:

"Wasserkocher", literally "water boiler", for electric kettle, and "Zebrastreifen", literally "zebra stripe(s)", for pedestrian crossing.

That confuses me a bit, because I would have thought someone would have come up with colloquial versions that have fewer syllables by now.

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 7:37 am"Wasserkocher", literally "water boiler", for electric kettle, and "Zebrastreifen", literally "zebra stripe(s)", for pedestrian crossing.
That confuses me a bit, because I would have thought someone would have come up with colloquial versions that have fewer syllables by now.

That's not how languages work, do they? Things are shortened once the original meaning gets opaque, but just like "water boiler" doesn't get shortened, why would "Wasserkocher" be shortened? It's a very clear compound. Same for Zebrastreifen. Although in the latter case Dutch just calls them "zebra's" (zebras), which I think is a colloquial word anyway (I'm not sure whether "Zebrastreifen" is in any German law text).


JAL

jal wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 9:35 am

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 7:37 am"Wasserkocher", literally "water boiler", for electric kettle, and "Zebrastreifen", literally "zebra stripe(s)", for pedestrian crossing.
That confuses me a bit, because I would have thought someone would have come up with colloquial versions that have fewer syllables by now.

That's not how languages work, do they? Things are shortened once the original meaning gets opaque, but just like "water boiler" doesn't get shortened, why would "Wasserkocher" be shortened? It's a very clear compound. Same for Zebrastreifen. Although in the latter case Dutch just calls them "zebra's" (zebras), which I think is a colloquial word anyway (I'm not sure whether "Zebrastreifen" is in any German law text).

Zebrastreifen is a colloquial expression; the officialese is the even longer Fußgängerüberweg.

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 7:37 am "Wasserkocher", literally "water boiler", for electric kettle, and "Zebrastreifen", literally "zebra stripe(s)", for pedestrian crossing.

That confuses me a bit, because I would have thought someone would have come up with colloquial versions that have fewer syllables by now.

I've heard Kocher being used.

jal wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 9:35 am Although in the latter case Dutch just calls them "zebra's" (zebras), which I think is a colloquial word anyway (I'm not sure whether "Zebrastreifen" is in any German law text).

Correct. The official names are Fußgängerüberweg in Germany, Schutzweg in Austria and Fussgängerstreifen in Switzerland.

hwhatting wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 9:55 am

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 7:37 am "Wasserkocher", literally "water boiler", for electric kettle, and "Zebrastreifen", literally "zebra stripe(s)", for pedestrian crossing.

That confuses me a bit, because I would have thought someone would have come up with colloquial versions that have fewer syllables by now.

I've heard Kocher being used.

Thank you!

I just discovered that last year was published From fieldwork to linguistic theory: A tribute to Dan Everett. The whole thing is extremely interesting — I read much of it in one day, unusual for me when it comes to edited volumes. It strikes me as being of particularly interest to conlangers, since many of the articles are about the limits of what could be possible in human language.

Thanks for sharing!