Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

[Nortaneous]

/e/ is more common than /ɛ/ btw

/p b mb t d nd k g ŋg q ɴɢ ʔ/ <p b mb t d nd k g ngg q nq c>
/s ʃ h/ <s j h>
/m n ŋ/ <m n ng>
/l r ʁ j w/ <l r gh y w>
/a ɛ e o i ɨ u/ <a ä e o i ü u>
/ã ẽ ə̃ õ/ <anh inh ünh unh>

maʃ bjida hu o ndin ʔimɨrtjaʁi do ʁod ekjub madoʁbɨʁ, leʔɨʃtuʁ kɨrsɛ ʁamij ejeʔ. ʔa djãw ndjɨj ʁamʁun ɨʁɨrne, a ŋgu emjan ɨnakɨm, mjan yɨr ɨkãtuŋ naʁɨrleŋ, i ʁom qãʁamʁun lõ maʁɨnaduʁ.
Maj byida hu o ndin cimirtyaghi do ghod ekyub madoghbigh, lecüjtugh kürsä ghamiy eyec. Ca dyanhw ndyüy ghamghun üghürne, a nggu emyan ünaküm, myan yür ükanhtung naghürleng, i ghom qanhghamghun lonh maghünadugh.

[bradrn]

Killerwhale’s language

/i y ɯ u a/ ⟨i e u o a⟩
/aː˩ ãː˩ aː˥ ãː˥ ɛ˩ ɛ̃˩ ɛ˥ ɛ̃˥/ ⟨aa ãa áa ãá a ã á ǎ⟩

/p t k s h j/ ⟨b d g s h y⟩

Fake Hluic

/p b mb t d nd k g ŋg q ɴɢ ʔ/ ⟨p b mb t d nd k g ng q nq h⟩
/s ʃ h/ ⟨s x j⟩
/m n ŋ/ ⟨m n ŋ⟩
/l r ʁ j w/ ⟨l r rr y w⟩

/a ɛ e o i ɨ u/ ⟨a è e o i ì u⟩
/ã ẽ ə̃ õ/ ⟨ã ẽ ĩ õ⟩


/maʃ bjida hu o ndin ʔimɨrtjaʁi do ʁod ekjub madoʁbɨʁ, leʔɨʃtuʁ kɨrsɛ ʁamij ejeʔ. ʔa djãw ndjɨj ʁamʁun ɨʁɨrne, a ŋgu emjan ɨnakɨm, mjan yɨr ɨkãtuŋ naʁɨrleŋ, i ʁom qãʁamʁun lõ maʁɨnaduʁ./

Max byida ju o ndin himìrtyarri do rrod ekyub madorrbìrr, lehìxturr kìrsè rramiy eyeh. Ha dyãw ndyìy rramrrun ìrrìrne, a ngu emyan ìnakìm, myan yìr ìkãtuŋ narrìrleŋ, i rrom qãrramrrun lõ marrìnadurr.

[Nortaneous]

/p b mb t d nd k g ŋg q ɴɢ ʔ/ <p b mb t d nd k g ng q nq c>
/s ʃ h/ <s ş h>
/m n ŋ/ <m n ñ>
/l r ʁ j w/ <l r ğ y w>

/a ɛ e o i ɨ u/ <a ə e o i ı u>
/ã ẽ ə̃ õ/ <ã ẽ ĩ õ>

/maʃ bjida hu o ndin ʔimɨrtjaʁi do ʁod ekjub madoʁbɨʁ, leʔɨʃtuʁ kɨrsɛ ʁamij ejeʔ. ʔa djãw ndjɨj ʁamʁun ɨʁɨrne, a ŋgu emjan ɨnakɨm, mjan yɨr ɨkãtuŋ naʁɨrleŋ, i ʁom qãʁamʁun lõ maʁɨnaduʁ./
Maş byida hu o ndin cimırtyaǧi do ğod ekyub madoğbığ, lecıştuğ kırsə ğamiy eyec. Ca dyãw ndyıy ğamğun ığırne, a ñgu emyan ınakım, myan yır ıkãtuñ nağırleñ, i ğom qãğamğun lõ mağınaduğ.

evidently if you remove the sound changes that make hlu fuqt you get turkic

[Starbeam]

Killer Whale conlang

Is this conlang based off of Korean? 'Cause this looks a lot like Korean. I also assume dialectal /r/ and /ts/ become /n/ before nasal vowels, and /ts/ additionally becomes /tʃ/ before non-nasalized front vowels. Also, do you have a sample text we could use?

In any case:

Likened to Korean

/ɪ i: ø y:/ ei i oe ui
/ʌ ɯ: o u:/ eo iu o u
/ɛ a:/ e a

/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ny nk
/p t ts (tʃ) k/ p t c (t)ch¹ k
/s (ʃ) h/ s sh h
/(l~r) r (w) j/ l r w y

Notes:

1. Spelled <tch> if from original <t>, spelled <ch> if from original <c>.
2. Apostrophes separate digraphs.

Slight originality

/ɪ i: ø y:/ i ii oi ui
/ʌ ɯ: o u:/ o u oo uu
/ɛ a:/ e a

/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ni nk
/p t ts (tʃ) k/ p t c ti/ci k
/s (ʃ) h/ s si h
/(l~r) r (w) j/ l r u i

[bradrn]

Given the resurgence of interest in this thread, I’ll submit Hlʉ̂ for re-romanisation. Full phonology is already posted elsewhere, but here’s a summary:

Consonants: /m n p t b d ʔ h/ [m n p t~k b d~ɡ~l~l̥ ʔ s~h]

Vowels: /i ʉ u e ɵ o a/

Tones: Surface tones are [à á ǎ â a̤ a̰], though underlyingly there are only three tones /à á a̤/ + toneless syllables. Writing only the surface tones is probably best (especially since some tones are underlyingly floating), but you can read the description linked above for details.

Allophony: /t/ → [k] before /d/, /t/ → [t] otherwise. /d/ → [ɡ] before /d/, /d/ → [l] after a voiced consonant, /d/ → [l̥] after a voiceless consonant, /d/ → [d] otherwise. /h/ → [s] before /i e/, /h/ → [h] otherwise.

Syllable structure: Maximally (C)(d)V(C). Most words are monosyllabic. Vowel hiatus is disallowed within the phonological word (though note clitics are outside this domain). Note that creaky voice cannot co-occur with a coda, and may be analysed as /Vʔ/ underlyingly.

Phonological rules: Quite a few; read the full description for details.

Sample text:

|ná bàb ˊ=ta̰ tdɵ d⟨dɵ̀⟩í=a nɵ̀ ‖ t⟨dɵ̀⟩é=e e̤b ‖ dáb ˊ=ʔdi̤ dí=e dì|
/ná bàb ta̰ tdɵ́ ddʉ̀ á nɵ̀ ‖ tdɵ̀ é e̤b ‖ dáb ʔdí di̤ é dì/
[ná bàb ta̰ kl̥ɵ́ glʉ̀ á nɵ̀ ‖ kl̥ɵ̀ é e̤b ‖ dáb ʔlí di̤ é dì]

[Karch]

[m n p t k b d ɡ l l̥ ʔ s h] <m n p t t b d d l l q s h>
/i ʉ u e ɵ o a/ <i yu u e ur o a>
Tone is unwritten, unless there is a minimal pair that can occur in the same context, in which case the word with the higher underlying tone gets an acute accent (HL has priority before LH). The verbal complex is written as one word.
[a̰] <aq>

[ná bàb ta̰ kl̥ɵ́ glʉ̀ á nɵ̀ ‖ kl̥ɵ̀ é e̤b ‖ dáb ʔlí di̤ é dì]
Na bab taq tlur dlyua nur. Tlure eb, dab qli die di.

[Rounin Ryuuji]

Given the resurgence of interest in this thread, I’ll submit Hlʉ̂ for re-romanisation. Full phonology is already posted elsewhere, but here’s a summary:

Consonants: /m n p t b d ʔ h/

Vowels: /i ʉ u e ɵ o a/

Tones: Surface tones are [à á ǎ â a̤ a̰], though underlyingly there are only three tones /à á a̤/ + toneless syllables. Writing only the surface tones is probably best (especially since some tones are underlyingly floating), but you can read the description linked above for details.

Allophony: /t/ → [k] before /d/, /t/ → [t] otherwise. /d/ → [ɡ] before /d/, /d/ → [l] after a voiced consonant, /d/ → [l̥] after a voiceless consonant, /d/ → [d] otherwise. /h/ → [s] before /i e/, /h/ → [h] otherwise.

Syllable structure: Maximally (C)(d)V(C). Most words are monosyllabic. Vowel hiatus is disallowed within the phonological word (though note clitics are outside this domain). Note that creaky voice cannot co-occur with a coda, and may be analysed as /Vʔ/ underlyingly.

Phonological rules: Quite a few; read the full description for details.

Sample text:

|ná bàb ˊ=ta̰ tdɵ d⟨dɵ̀⟩í=a nɵ̀ ‖ t⟨dɵ̀⟩é=e e̤b ‖ dáb ˊ=ʔdi̤ dí=e dì|
/ná bàb ta̰ tdɵ́ ddʉ̀ á nɵ̀ ‖ tdɵ̀ é e̤b ‖ dáb ʔdí di̤ é dì/
[ná bàb ta̰ kl̥ɵ́ glʉ̀ á nɵ̀ ‖ kl̥ɵ̀ é e̤b ‖ dáb ʔlí di̤ é dì]

Consonants: /m n p t b d ʔ h/ [m n p t~k b d~ɡ~l~l̥ ʔ s~h] m n p t(~k) b d(~g~l) q s(~h)

Vowels: /i ʉ u e ɵ o a/ i eu u e eo o a

Surface Tones: [à á ǎ â a̤ a̰] à á ah â ä ã

Sample Text: [ná bàb ta̰ kl̥ɵ́ glʉ̀ á nɵ̀ ‖ kl̥ɵ̀ é e̤b ‖ dáb ʔlí di̤ é dì] Ná bàb tã kléo á nè. Clèo é ëb, dáb qlí di é dì.

[Starbeam]

Hlû

/m n/ m n
/p b t~k d~g~l~l̥ ʔ/ p b t/k d/g/l/l q
/h~s/ h/s

/i ʉ u/ i u ou
/e ɵ o/ e o oo
/a/ a

[à á ǎ â a̤ a̰] a á ǎ â ȧ aq
vowels written with two letters take the tone diacritics on both letters

/ná bàb ta̰ tdɵ́ ddʉ̀ á nɵ̀ ‖ tdɵ̀ é e̤b ‖ dáb ʔdí di̤ é dì/
[ná bàb ta̰ kl̥ɵ́ glʉ̀ á nɵ̀ ‖ kl̥ɵ̀ é e̤b ‖ dáb ʔlí di̤ é dì]

Ná bab taq kló glu á no. Klo é ėb. Dáb qlí dı é di?

[Nortaneous]

[p t k] <p t k>
[b d g l l̥] <b d g l l>
[m n ʔ s~h] <m n q s h>

Vowels: /i ʉ u e ɵ o a/ <i y u e v o a>

[à á ǎ â a̤ a̰] <aj a av ax ar ac>

|ná bàb ˊ=ta̰ tdɵ d⟨dɵ̀⟩í=a nɵ̀ ‖ t⟨dɵ̀⟩é=e e̤b ‖ dáb ˊ=ʔdi̤ dí=e dì|
/ná bàb ta̰ tdɵ́ ddʉ̀ á nɵ̀ ‖ tdɵ̀ é e̤b ‖ dáb ʔdí di̤ é dì/
[ná bàb ta̰ kl̥ɵ́ glʉ̀ á nɵ̀ ‖ kl̥ɵ̀ é e̤b ‖ dáb ʔlí di̤ é dì]
Na bajb tac klv glyj a nvj. Klvj e erb. Dab qli dir e dij.

-----------

On that note, I may as well resubmit Hlu, but the Bor dialect this time

/pʰ tʰ tsʰ cʰ kʰ/
/ⁿb ⁿd ⁿdz ⁿɟ ⁿg/
/ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ/
/m̥ n̥ ɲ̥ ŋ̥/
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/s ɹ h/
/ɸ ɬ ç/
/β l j/
/a ɔ e ɤ o i ɯ u ai̯ au̯/

Syllable structure is (j)C(R)V(C).

/kʰɤ n̥ɯç tʰau̯ kʰlɯɲ ɗɤ ⁿdɤɲ saʔtʰepʰ m̥apʰβa || ɹɔɬjɔh li n̥ɯç m̥akʰβeɬeɹi ⁿdɤɲ cʰɯɗɹa || çβi ɤpʰuɹiⁿdɯ ɤŋimɔ ai̯ tʰun̥a tʰɹu n̥βiɗe ɤⁿbjɔljɔ/

[Karch]

/pʰ tʰ tsʰ cʰ kʰ/ <b d j d g>
/ⁿb ⁿd ⁿdz ⁿɟ ⁿg/ <mb nd nj nd nk>
/ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ/ <p t t k>
/m̥ n̥ ɲ̥ ŋ̥/ <mh nh nh ngh>
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n n ng>
/s ɹ h/ <s r h>
/ɸ ɬ ç/ <fh lh s~yh>
/β l j/ <w l y>
/a ɔ e ɤ o i ɯ u ai̯ au̯/ <o a e~ye e~ê oo i~yi i~î u ai au>

Sequences of palatals and back unrounded vowels are written as sequences of alveolars and front vowels - if the final is written as alveolar, it's actually palatal, otherwise it's the initial that's palatal. Actual sequences of alveolars and front vowels are written with a <y> before the vowel. Back unrounded vowels unaccounted for by the previous rule are written with a circumflex. Unexpected /ç/ is written as <yh>. (Do other unexpected palatals exist?) Voiceless aspirated stops are written as <p t k> syllable-finally.

/kʰɤ n̥ɯç tʰau̯ kʰlɯɲ ɗɤ ⁿdɤɲ saʔtʰepʰ m̥apʰβa || ɹɔɬjɔh li n̥ɯç m̥akʰβeɬeɹi ⁿdɤɲ cʰɯɗɹa || çβi ɤpʰuɹiⁿdɯ ɤŋimɔ ai̯ tʰun̥a tʰɹu n̥βiɗe ɤⁿbjɔljɔ/
Ge nhis dau glin tê nden sa'dyep mhabwa. Rolhyoh li nhis mhagwelheri nden ditra. Yhwi êburindî êngimo ai dunha dru nhwite êmbyolyo.

[Nortaneous]

Sequences of palatals and back unrounded vowels are written as sequences of alveolars and front vowels - if the final is written as alveolar, it's actually palatal

This is diachronically correct. IIRC only /i/ palatalizes preceding coronals. But the sound changes need work.

(Do other unexpected palatals exist?)

Yes, at least in loans. Probably elsewhere, but the current SC file I have is totally wrong.

[Karch]

Sequences of palatals and back unrounded vowels are written as sequences of alveolars and front vowels - if the final is written as alveolar, it's actually palatal

This is diachronically correct. IIRC only /i/ palatalizes preceding coronals. But the sound changes need work.

Yeah, after all my orthography was meant to be as diachronically correct as I could get without knowing the exact sound changes - that's also why the plosives are written the way they're written.

[Nortaneous]

Sequences of palatals and back unrounded vowels are written as sequences of alveolars and front vowels - if the final is written as alveolar, it's actually palatal

This is diachronically correct. IIRC only /i/ palatalizes preceding coronals. But the sound changes need work.

Yeah, after all my orthography was meant to be as diachronically correct as I could get without knowing the exact sound changes - that's also why the plosives are written the way they're written.

It turns out that, for a regular but diachronically correct orthography, nasalization and velarization can be written with the same diacritic.

/pʰ tʰ tsʰ cʰ kʰ/ <b d j dy g>
/ⁿb ⁿd ⁿdz ⁿɟ ⁿg/ <mb nd nj ndy ŋg>
/ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ/ <p t ty k>
/m̥ n̥ ɲ̥ ŋ̥/ <sm sn sny sŋ>
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n n ng>
/s ɹ h/ <c r h>
/ɸ ɬ ç/ <hw s s/hy>
/β l j/ <w l y>
/a ɔ e ɤ o i ɯ u ai̯ au̯/ <a ọ ẹ ə̣/e o e/i i/ə u ị ụ>

/kʰɤ n̥ɯç tʰau̯ kʰlɯɲ ɗɤ ⁿdɤɲ saʔtʰepʰ m̥apʰβa || ɹɔɬjɔh li n̥ɯç m̥akʰβeɬeɹi ⁿdɤɲ cʰɯɗɹa || çβi ɤpʰuɹiⁿdɯ ɤŋimɔ ai̯ tʰun̥a tʰɹu n̥βiɗe ɤⁿbjɔljɔ/
Gə̣ snis dux glin tə̣ nden caʔdẹp smabwa. Rọsyọh li snis smagwẹsẹre nden ti·tra. Hywi ə̣burendə ə̣ŋemọ ị dusna dru snwedẹ ə̣mbyọlyọ.

[Karch]

Plains Gandrip of Ngaeng

/p t/
/b dʳ ɡ/
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/s ɕ x/
/r ʑ ɣ/

/i ɨ u ɛ ɔ/
/eˤ əˤ oˤ æˤ ɑˤ/

/r/ is pronounced [z] word-initially. /dʳ/ is pronounced as the consonant cluster [dr], but since there are no other Cr clusters and [d] doesn't occur otherwise, it's analyzed as an unitary phoneme.

/dʳɨgɨrɨri dʳǝˤri gæˤdʳurɔ || gæˤdʳudʳi dʳɨɕi ŋɨdʳɨrɔ gæˤdʳuru nɑˤriru || mɨrɛn goˤri dʳɨgɨboˤri rɨdʳɨri xɨtɔ || əˤɣɨŋɕi dʳeˤŋnɛ/

[Karch]

/p t/ <p t>
/b dʳ ɡ/ <b ḍ g>
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n ñ ṅ>
/s ɕ x/ <s ś x>
/r ʑ ɣ/ <r y γ>

/i ɨ u ɛ ɔ/ <i ä u e o>
/eˤ əˤ oˤ æˤ ɑˤ/ <ê ə ô æ a>

/dʳɨgɨrɨri dʳǝˤri gæˤdʳurɔ || gæˤdʳudʳi dʳɨɕi ŋɨdʳɨrɔ gæˤdʳuru nɑˤriru || mɨrɛn goˤri dʳɨgɨboˤri rɨdʳɨri xɨtɔ || əˤɣɨŋɕi dʳeˤŋnɛ/

Ḍägäräri ḍǝri gæḍuro. Gæḍuḍi ḍäśi ṅäḍäro gæḍuru nariru. Mären gôri ḍägäbôri räḍäri xäto. Əγäṅśi ḍêṅne.

[bradrn]

…well done. At first I thought this was one of those Sino-Tibetan horrors (surely no conlanger would do that!, I said to myself), until I found the anthropologi.ca entry. I may have trouble sleeping tonight.

/p t/ ⟨p t⟩
/b dʳ ɡ/ ⟨b d k⟩
/m n ɲ ŋ/ ⟨m n y g⟩
/s ɕ x/ ⟨s c x⟩
/r ʑ ɣ/ ⟨r j q⟩

/i ɨ u ɛ ɔ/ ⟨i e u a o⟩
/eˤ əˤ oˤ æˤ ɑˤ/ ⟨i̱ e̱ u̱ a̱ o̱⟩

/dʳɨgɨrɨri dʳǝˤri gæˤdʳurɔ || gæˤdʳudʳi dʳɨɕi ŋɨdʳɨrɔ gæˤdʳuru nɑˤriru || mɨrɛn goˤri dʳɨgɨboˤri rɨdʳɨri xɨtɔ || əˤɣɨŋɕi dʳeˤŋnɛ/
Dekerere de̱ri ka̱duro. Ka̱duri deci gedero ka̱duru no̱riru. Meran ku̱ri dekebu̱ri rederi xeto. E̱qegci di̱gna.

Or alternately, replacing underscores with ⟨-h⟩ for an ASCII transcription:
Dekerere dehri kahduro. Kahduri deci gedero kahduru nohriru. Meran kuhri dekebuhri rederi xeto. Ehqegci dihgna.

[Karch]

/p t/ <п т>
/b dʳ ɡ/ <б д г>
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <м н нь ӈ>
/s ɕ x/ <с ш х>
/r ʑ ɣ/ <р ж ғ>

/i ɨ u ɛ ɔ/ <и ы у э о>
/eˤ əˤ oˤ æˤ ɑˤ/ <ӥ ӹ ӱ ӓ а>

/dʳɨgɨrɨri dʳǝˤri gæˤdʳurɔ || gæˤdʳudʳi dʳɨɕi ŋɨdʳɨrɔ gæˤdʳuru nɑˤriru || mɨrɛn goˤri dʳɨgɨboˤri rɨdʳɨri xɨtɔ || əˤɣɨŋɕi dʳeˤŋnɛ/

Дыгырыри дӹри гӓдуро. Гӓдуди дыши ӈыдыро гӓдуру нариру. Мырэн гӱри дыгыбӱри рыдыри хыто. Ӹғыӈши дӥӈнэ.

[Nortaneous]

/p t/ <p t>
/b dʳ ɡ/ <b d k>
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n ny g>
/s ɕ x/ <s c h>
/r ʑ ɣ/ <r y q>

/i ɨ u ɛ ɔ/ <i u o e a>
/eˤ əˤ oˤ æˤ ɑˤ/ <î û ô ê â>

/dʳɨgɨrɨri dʳǝˤri gæˤdʳurɔ || gæˤdʳudʳi dʳɨɕi ŋɨdʳɨrɔ gæˤdʳuru nɑˤriru || mɨrɛn goˤri dʳɨgɨboˤri rɨdʳɨri xɨtɔ || əˤɣɨŋɕi dʳeˤŋnɛ/
Dukururi dûri kêdora. Kêdodi duci gudura kêdoro nâriro. Muren kôri dukubôri ruduri huta. Ûqugci dîgne.

[Karch]

let's do a deep orthography

/p t/ <p t>
/b dʳ ɡ/ <b d k>
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n ny ng>
/s ɕ x/ <s sh x>
/r ʑ ɣ/ <r/l zh q>

/i ɨ u ɛ ɔ/ <i a u e o>
/eˤ əˤ oˤ æˤ ɑˤ/ <î â û ê ô>

/dʳɨgɨrɨri dʳǝˤri gæˤdʳurɔ || gæˤdʳudʳi dʳɨɕi ŋɨdʳɨrɔ gæˤdʳuru nɑˤriru || mɨrɛn goˤri dʳɨgɨboˤri rɨdʳɨri xɨtɔ || əˤɣɨŋɕi dʳeˤŋnɛ/
Dakaprali dangri kêdupro. Kêdupdi dasri ngadaro kêdupral nôritral. Maren kûri dakabûri radanri xato. Âqingshi dîngne.

cf. Proto-Gandrip:
trasgabdali rtạṇi kyạtrubdo. kyạtrutri traṣi ŋatragdo kyạtrubdal mnọrdraddal. ɣmarden kạuri trasgabụri ṇatraṇi hato. ɣabẓaŋṣi drịŋne.

[Nortaneous]

we've done unfucked Hlu, why not Proto-Hluic

/p b ⁿb β m/
/t d ⁿd ð n/
/c ɟ ⁿɟ ʝ ɲ/
/k g ⁿg ɣ ŋ/
/θ s ʔ h l r/

/a e ɤ o i u/
/ã ẽ ɤ̃ õ/
[ə] (in unstressed syllables, epenthetic)

mar e bədad iθu ⁿdəmɲu βətuɣ səmaŋ ku mɤð. do ɣod kəθʝub e doɣ e bɤɣ βəsʝe kɤr ɣəðam meʝ e ʝeʔ ʔəhɤr. rãβ ɣəðam səmɣun an hərmərɤʝ, a ⁿguð e ʝəman an kɤm. ʝəman ʝɤr an hɤr ŋəleŋ kãtuŋ, e ɣom ʔəɣãð ðam lõ an səmɣun duɣ.