Zompist Bboard Again

Something from South America.

Neonnaut wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:18 am Something from South America.

Quechua?

Chawrana-qa puntataruu-qu trayaruptin-qa wamrata-qa mayna-shi Diosninchi-qa heqarkaykachisha syelutana-shi
so:already-top at:the:peak-top arriving-top child-top already-ind our:God-top had:taken:her:up to:heaven:already-ind
When she (the witch) reached the peak, God had already taken the child up into heaven

Can we have a pronunciation guide?

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:46 am Can we have a pronunciation guide?

Unfortunately, it seems unlikely. I’ve looked, and most sources on Quechua languages seem to go out of their way to avoid giving any detailed phonetic information. I’ve tried to look for other South American languages with more information, but they’re hard to find, and the best ones actually have too much information for me to be confident in any transcription I make. (Karajá looks very interesting for this thread, but it has a simply impenetrable phonology. Hup is even more interesting, but its phonology is even more impenetrable.)

Shipibo, a Panoan language:

wɯsˈtioɻa nɯtɯɻõɣi iˈkaɣi joˈtã βɯˈtã ˈβadʐi ˈnoko̯anani . ha noˈko̯aanaʂki ˈjojo ikana iɣi hãĩ . hatĩãɣi βaˈdʐĩ ˈjoija iɣi , "{ɯaɻa ˈkoʃi iɣi waɻa kˈkin ˈkoʃiki ˈmia iɣi}" aɣĩ . tĩã hasˈkakɯtĩãɣi ˈjotamã ˈjoija iɣi , "{ɯaɻa ˈkoʃiɻiβi ɣi}"

Westíora neteronki iká-iki Yotan betan Bari nokoanani . Ja nokoananas̈hki yoyo ikana iki jain . Jatianki Barin yoiya iki , "Eara koshi iki eara kikin koshiki mia iki" akin . Jatian jaskáketianki Yotaman yoiya iki , "Eara koshi iki"

It is said that one day the Yotan Wind and the Sun met each other. Meeting each other, they talked there. Then the Sun said, "I am stronger than you." And the Yotan Wind answered "I am strong too."

Neonnaut wrote: ↑Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:52 am Shipibo, a Panoan language:

You beat me to it. (I was planning to figure out a Movima text.) But I’d be curious to know where you got this from — I’m always interested in Panoan and Tacanan reference grammars. Also, what do the braces mean?

bradrn wrote: ↑Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:58 am

Neonnaut wrote: ↑Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:52 am Shipibo, a Panoan language:

You beat me to it. (I was planning to figure out a Movima text.) But I’d be curious to know where you got this from — I’m always interested in Panoan and Tacanan reference grammars. Also, what do the braces mean?

The third or fourth google result for "Shipibo pdf" https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... 18_Shipibo. Then I used image to text and typed out any errors by hand.
I think the bracers are for optional recursion in the original ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It looks less confusing for my eyes, trying to distinguish quote marks for stress marks.

Neonnaut wrote: ↑Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:10 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:58 am

Neonnaut wrote: ↑Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:52 am Shipibo, a Panoan language:

You beat me to it. (I was planning to figure out a Movima text.) But I’d be curious to know where you got this from — I’m always interested in Panoan and Tacanan reference grammars. Also, what do the braces mean?

The third or fourth google result for "Shipibo pdf" https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... 18_Shipibo. Then I used image to text and typed out any errors by hand.
I think the bracers are for optional recursion in the original ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It looks less confusing for my eyes, trying to distinguish quote marks for stress marks.

Ah, thank you. (Better link: https://doi.org/10.1017/S0025100301002109.) It says ‘false starts requiring repairs made in the course of telling the story are marked off by { }’.

Let's get the game going again:

• The occurrence of [i] or [j] triggers umlaut on all syllables preceding; [ɯ a o] > [i ɛ ø]; nasalisation blocks this change, and the non-vocalic elements of diphthongs are usually unaffected;
• Front vowels, both new and old, trigger various palatalisation-based changes
  • [t] assibilates to [s];
  • [n] palatalises to [ɲ], then denasalises to [j];
  • [ɣ] merges with [j]; [j] before [i] is subsequently lost;
  • Nasal vowels brought into contact with following oral vowels in this way are denasalised; oral vowels brought into contact with following nasan vowels nasalise
  • [dʐ] > [ɟ͡ʑ]
  • [k] > [c͡ç]; [ʂc͡ç] > [ɕc], pre-existing [s], and [ʃ] > [ɕ]
  • [ii ɛi ɛɛ ai øi oi] > [iː eː eː æː yː oː]
• Coda [s] > [i];
• Loss of [w];
• [ɯ] > [u], or [w] before another vowel; [β o̯] > [w]; [wu] > [u];
• Coda nasals are absorbed into the preceding vowel, nasalising them before disappearing;

[isˈsioɻa isiɻoː iˈkeː joˈtã uˈtã ˈwɛɟʑi ˈnøkwɛneː . ha noˈkweːnɛɕci ˈjojo ikana iː hæ̃ː . hɛsiæː wɛˈɟʑĩ ˈjyːja iː , "{waɻa ˈkøɕi iː waɻa cˈc͡çĩ ˈkøɕic͡çi ˈmia iː}" æ̃ . tĩã heːˈkɛc͡çisiæː ˈjotamã ˈjyːja iː , "{waɻa ˈkøɕi iː}"]

Issiora isirô ikê Yotan Utan weji neowenê. Ha nokwêneshkyi yoyo ikana î hân. Hesiâ Wejin yiûya î, "Wara keoshi î wara kkyin keoshikyi mia î" ân. Tian hêkekyisiâ Yotaman yiûya î, "Wara koshi î".

It is said that one day the Yotan Wind and the Sun met each other. Meeting each other, they talked there. Then the Sun said, "I am stronger than you." And the Yotan Wind answered "I am strong too."

Jamaican Patois anyone?

If people would rather do that, I've no objection.

Truu mi no nuo we mi wife de, mi haffi go kuk dina fi miself
Because-I-no-know-where-my-wife-is(loc) I-have to-go-cook-dinner-for-myself

[tru: mi no nuo we mi 'waif de mi 'hafi go: kuk 'dina fi mi'self]

1. Monophtongization of diphtongs with compensatory lengthening
[tru: mi no nu: we mi 'wa:f de mi 'hafi go: kuk 'dina fi mi'self]

• Long vowels diphthongise — [uː o: aː] > [əu uə ie];
• Insertion of schwa to break up consonant clusters, including across word boundaries;

[tə'rəu mi no nəu we mi 'wief de mi 'hafi guə 'ku.kə 'dina fi mi'se.ləf]
Tereu mi no neu wè mi wièf dè mi hafi gue kuke dina fi misèlef.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:09 am

• Long vowels diphthongise — [uː o: aː] > [əu uə ie];
• Insertion of schwa to break up consonant clusters, including across word boundaries;

[tə'rəu mi no nəu we mi 'wief de mi 'hafi guə 'ku.kə 'dina fi mi'se.ləf]
Tereu mi no neu wè mi wièf dè mi hafi gue kuke dina fi misèlef.

Rounin, just no weird consonants this time!

- Schwa turns to [a]
[s]>[z]
[ta'rau mi no nau we mi 'wief de mi 'hafi gua 'ku.ka 'dina fi mi'ze.laf]

Rounin, just no weird consonants this time!

Now I have to do it.

• Voiceless stops become aspirated; [tʰ d] > [t͡sʰ z];
• Coda [f] > [u]; [au eu we wi] > [oː joː jo ju]

[t͡sʰa'roː mi no noː jo mi ju'joː ze mi 'ha.fi gua 'kʰu.kʰa 'zi.na fi mi.ze'loː]
Tsaró mi no nó yo mi yuyó ze mi hafi gua kuka zina fi mizeló.

- pitch accent emerges
[t͡sʰáro mì nó nò jó mò jújo zò mí 'hà.fi gu.á 'kʰù.kʰa 'zí.na fì mí.ze.lõ]

Bump. Patois again

Di briz an de san did a kus seh who bada when a bredda ina wan jacket a pass. Dem seh whosoeva mek de man tek off im jacket fuss a di bada wan.

[di 'briz an de san did a kus se: hu; 'ba:da wen a 'bre:da ina wan 'dʒaket a pass. dem se; huso'eva mek de man tek of im dʒaket fus a di 'ba:da wan]

r z > ɻ r
f > ɸ
s → n / #_
s > h
dʒ v > j w
k h > ʔ / _#
k h > kʷ k
e: > i:
e o > a
n > nʲ / i_, _i
Pu Pi > Pʷu Pʲi
h > ɸ /_u
ɸ h > p ʔ
ʔ > /V_V
i u > ɨ / ! C{ʷ,ʲ}_
a > o / Cʷ_
a > e / Cʲ_
No more stress
V: > V̂: / C[+voice](C)_
V: > V̌: / else
Vʔ$ > V́ʔ$
ʔ > ∅ /_#; ʔ > j
VC[+Voiced non-nasal plosive]$ > V̀$
Voiced non-nasal plosive devoice
ɻ > ʋ / B_
w ɻ > ʋ r


V̌ V̂ V́ V̀
Di briz an de san did a kus seh who bada when a bredda ina wan jacket a pass. Dem seh whosoeva mek de man tek off im jacket fuss a di bada wan.

[tʲi pʋɨr an ta nan tʲìt a kʷú nʲǐ: pɨ; pâ:ta ʋan a pʋɨ̂:ta ɨnʲe ʋan jakʷot a pá. tam na; pɨ́jajaʋa má ta man tá ap ɨm jakʷot pɨ́ a tʲi pâta ʋan]

• [p] > [ɸ];
• [tʲ kʷ nʲ] > [cɕ p ɟʑ];
• [ʋɨ ʋa ja] > [u o e];
  • Two adjacent vowels of the same quality become a long vowel with rising-falling pitch;
  • Other vowels brought into hiatus develop a semivowel excrescence;
• All vowels with rising-falling pitch become long, and all long vowels take rising-falling pitch, vowels with rising pitch half-long;
• [ɨ] shifts depending on the preceding consonant; [ɨ] > [i] in isolation

Ti bhryz an ta nan tit a kús zih why bhâta on a bhrŷta inya wan jeckwyt a phas. Tam nah whuyêwa mák ta man ták af ym yeckwyt phús a ti bhâta wan.
[cɕi ɸur an ta nan cɕìt a púˑ ɟʑî: ɸu ɸâ:ta on a ɸû:ta iɟʑe on epot a ɸáˑ | tam na; ɸu.jêː.jo máˑ ta man táˑ aɸ im e.pot ɸúˑ a cɕi ɸâː.ta on]

• cɕ ɟʑ > x ɣ > ʃ x
• i u o e > ɪ ɨ ʊ ə
• Vn > Ṽ / _C, _#
• m > n / _#

Ti bhryz an ta nan tit a kús zih why bhâta on a bhrŷta inya wan jeckwyt a phas. Tam nah whuyêwa mák ta man ták af ym yeckwyt phús a ti bhâta wan.
[ʃɪ ɸɨr ã ta nã ʃɪ̀t a pɨ́ˑ xɪ̂: ɸɨ ɸâ:ta ʊ̃ a ɸɨ̂:ta ɪxə ʊ̃ əpʊt a ɸáˑ | tã na; ɸɨ.jə̂ː.jʊ máˑ ta mã táˑ aɸ ɪ̃ əpʊt ɸɨ̂ˑ a ʃɪ ɸâː.ta ʊ̃]
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